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Mats Kaarbö

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Why must we pay to live on our own planet?

The question may seem childish to some, but I want you all to really think about this. Why must we pay to live on our own planet?

Why did we make an economic system that is completely decoupled from the laws of nature, when we know that we live on a finite planet?

Why do we work for money that we then have to use to get access to resources we need, when the resources is already here?

And why do some people inherit land and claim it their private property, making other people pay or wok for having access to their property, even when everybody is born on the same planet and there is more than enough room for everybody?


Again, why must we pay to live on our own planet?

Topics: critical thinking economics education epiphany life society
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    Mitch SMith 50+

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    Oct 12 2012: Hi Mats,

    IT all depends on your understanding of the word "pay".
    Consider - if you want fruit from a tree, you must pay the effort of picking it.
    After eating it, you must pay the earth with your excretion.
    Certainly, if all required for our needs were in abundance, then there would be no need for money.
    But in times of scarcity, - when there are not enough beans for all, then the beans get counted.
    And when the beans are not enough to sustain all, then some will die so that some will live.
    Then, what of the one who hides the beans to make them scarce?
    This is the flaw of money. Do not pay the hoarder - rob him.
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      Iulian Sociale Ingegnere

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      Oct 12 2012: Good and if you have to chose to help someone that is grown up and has his/her opinions and ideas and maybe can help the society or marginalise him/her just to not brake something or disturb in some way. And if you try to slowly "get down" someone and that persons is the "fruit" of a love story, you gonna kill the life until you gonna kill yourself? Do you have limits and if you do not have, in what direction they point? ...or should i say they go ....
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        Mitch SMith 50+

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        Oct 13 2012: Iulian,
        I, Mitch SMith have limits.
        Some of them I chose, some were thust upon me.
        And they change in each instant according to the best path forward.

        Please expand on your arguement - I have said nothing about killing? You seem to have something to say - I'd like to understand you, but your language is not well defined. Try - subject-->verb--> object. We have 2000 characters in these posts, so your language can be more specific.
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          Iulian Sociale Ingegnere

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          Oct 13 2012: If you do not take actions in helping a hungry person and you can and have the possibility to do it, is like you participate silently in the slowly killing of that person. Maybe now you understand me. Your theory with beans does not sustain the human spiritual evolution of this days and the consciousness of human kind so when you get more than you need from nature or the others is like you do not think to that people that are doing this and have limits just to let the others have also. That person that has more than another one and is in the same level of evolution, is one that robbed the others because evolution theory say that the strongest one is the one that is more evolved and is not about money here. Money are not coming from nature so they are not take into account in front of God. Remember that we are equal in front of God but spiritually and nothing in this world can determine us to not come closer to God, especially this days when there are so many possibilities.
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        Mitch SMith 50+

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        Oct 13 2012: OK - I see where you are coming from.
        But to me, the words "spirituality" and God" are without meaning. They might mean something to you, but have no basis of communication - in the context of communication they are noise because there is no definition to share.
        I am sure you know what you are saying, but these words ("god/spirituality") actively prevent anyone from being able to share your understanding. Perhaps you can find alternative words?
        In times of scarcity - some die. I cannot see any way around that. It would be silly for all to die if there is food for some.
        One needs not be the strongest to win such a competition - one needs only be stronger than the weakest.
        If the weak ones do not starve, they will become food for the predators.
        But now - show me this scarcity?
        You show me where it is, and I will show where someone is hiding the beans.
        If the miser is strong, the robber must be stronger.
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          Iulian Sociale Ingegnere

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          Oct 13 2012: Have you thought that this crisis can be intentionally made in this technologically evolved days where money are more and more informational manipulated. Is wrong for you to relate directly money with food and scarcity with die or live if this scarcity is human made. It is not nature that is in crisis is the human kind in crisis and this is because some bad persons intentionally are doing this. So the scarcity is in that people that use this tool called money in a bad intentioned way and not just to buy how much they need. This is what is happening because is like they take decisions for human kind and forgot how is not to have this tools.
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        Mitch SMith 50+

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        Oct 13 2012: Yes, I agree with that, except - if there is scarcity, some will die. There is no escape from that.
        If, however, there is scarcity because some are hiding the food, then it is injustice - death will be caused by the thief of food.
        If we accept money as our token of trade - it will move the food with it.
        But look - you cannot counterfeit food - it is either food or not.
        If you hide it, it will decay.
        Money is not food, and yet, we let it stand between us and our food.
        In this we consent to our hunger.
        We should stop doing that.
        Pay unto Caesar? Well - is Caesar worth paying? If not, abandon his coin.
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          Iulian Sociale Ingegnere

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          Oct 13 2012: Have you thought that scarcity is related to human actions and not to how many we are in this world? Suppose we are like animals but more conscious. Do you think that nature will let us come into this world if there are no more resources to live. If you see the mother nature like a whole and is alive you see around you, do you think that will permit us to come in this world if the life can not be sustained. My opinion is that a lot of us humans have lost the sense of limit in their needs and is because there is a forced (not natural) competition in "tastes" so to say and this is related to money not to good sense. Think about .......
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        Mitch SMith 50+

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        Oct 13 2012: Hi Iulian,
        Yes - I see scarcity as the action of bean-hiders.
        Where i live there is no scarcity at all.
        However, I do see the earth being ripped up and made toxic.
        I do not live in a place where people do not have enough food.
        And yet, i am told these places exist.
        I do remember when my family did not have enough food for a short time, but i remember how the community made sure that we got enough - as soon as they knew we were in need.
        I do not believe in "mother nature" as most people do. I believe in observable dynamics.
        I observe that the universe and all that is observable to our weak eyes is a continuum of "self" from the particles to the atoms, to the viruses, the bacteria, the animals and these apes called humans.
        In fact - anything that is a pattern that self-sustains has a self.
        I observe that selves exist only in relation to other selves.
        I observe that self organising entities seek to join with others at different degrees of symbiosis.
        I observe the birth of greater selves with each new union through symbiosis.
        I observe that nothing is whithout change and that the expansion of entropy drives the arabesque dance of self along an infinite fractal plane of time-space generating more and more complexity with more and more self-ness and greater spans of entropic modulation both forwads and backwards in the time vector itself.
        We fool ourselves that we are made, and yet we are nothing but the process of making, and will never be made. We fool ourselves that history repeats, and yet it cannot. We fool ourselves that by looking back we will find all answers, but there are no answers in the wreckage of entropy - only in the forward fractal dance of time.
        The old ones talk of the great wheel, but when you look at it - it is an expanding spiral - and it is chaos - the coils can be close as 1/infinity, and yet, the deviation cannot be known.
        Maya rides the storm - but the storm is time - and maya will never catch it.
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          Iulian Sociale Ingegnere

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          Oct 13 2012: Is good to know that you have a good live environment and you can be satisfied and also that you can contribute to the growth of your nation and you help each other like this. Is not good from my point of view to forget where you come from and who made you reach that land Australia. I do not want to contradict you about your beliefs but you gonna grow older and just think how your children will talk about your beliefs and how they will remember you. They will remember fractals and atoms and viruses. You want like other people in the past to find a meaning of life and if you gain power maybe you want to demonstrate it to yourself or the others if they do not have same capacity with you and so on you will be like many others with no diversity and lost in the science. If you think you know so much where will gonna be the joy of living if you demonstrate something to yourself and after that you will not be happy until you make all others believe in what you say. Let me be a fool one and maybe I will be happy in my foulness but do not expect to understand you in your grate (or great ) discoveries when you will not evan remember who you are and where are you from. Think about ......
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        Mitch SMith 50+

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        Oct 14 2012: Hi Iiulian,
        Yes thought about ...
        I am not so interested in finding any meaning of life - what good is that?
        I am curious about what makes things happen. There is joy in that.
        My children will remember my descriptions - viruses, fractals etc - but not so much. They will remember most how I love them, how i listen to them, how i answered their questions with truth and how i stepped aside for them to find their own truth. They will remember how i did not inflict them with the lies of my fathers. And then they will forget all that - it's not important to remember - only to act in truth.
        What use is power to me? What use is power but to force lies on children?
        Lost? I think not my friend.
        It matters not if you accept my beliefs, or I accept yours - it only matters to share them.
        It matters to compare beliefs and be willing to listen.
        I know who I am. I know where I came from.
        It is my joy that there are others.
        It is a joy that I meet them - as i meet you now.
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          Iulian Sociale Ingegnere

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          Oct 14 2012: I do not share your opinion about lies of your fathers, you just made their words lies and is also yours a lie maybe later in front of your grown children. Maybe is the same belief and you should respect that "lie" also as you step aside of the "lie" of your childrens and maybe later you will step down of your "lie" and you will think is the same belief but with other words and for sure for this becouse of contradictions and missunderstanding you made harm to your parents. I have this feeling that you have to escuse to them if you can ...
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        Mitch SMith 50+

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        Oct 14 2012: Hi Iulian,

        You do not have to agree. You also do not know my father.
        You talk in vacuum and have ears closed.

        It has been fun - but no value past this.

        Fare well friend.
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          Iulian Sociale Ingegnere

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          Oct 14 2012: Yea we deviated from the subject of discussion but is important to not forget our past and respect our anchestor as they wanted to make a better future for all. We change and lose, as they have done, the things that made harm to them at least they tried an we try.

          so long friend :)

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