John Moonstroller

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Have our National News Media outlets become simple propaganda machines, feeding us a one sided version of the news?

“Propaganda is a form of communication that is aimed at influencing the attitude of a community toward some cause or position by presenting only one side of an argument. Propaganda is usually repeated and dispersed over a wide variety of media in order to create the chosen result in audience attitudes.” ~ Wikipedia

Fox News claims to be an impartial, national news outlet, with the duty to bring to the audience, the impartial news, news representing the real nature of the event, without introducing bias or partiality.

CNN and the other News outlets are also socially designated to give us non-biased news as it occurs. Today, our national news outlets fail to give us an impartial report of events without trying to persuade us that their interpretation of the event is the proper perspective in which to view the reports and A/V (audio/video) footage.

Many people have turned to the Social Media outlets on the Internet to search for the truthful news, without all the slanted fanfare. Sometimes we get lucky and find a source but the social media are also biased, perhaps more so, than the National sources.

It’s getting harder to find the truth of how our global social frame work is evolving, what it is becoming and how we are affected by it’s evolution. Most News outlets are owned by an individual or organization. It sometimes appears that these owners have an agenda to instill an attitude towards a country, their people and their way of life or a particular political affiliation.

Is it impossible to find truth in reporting in our society today? Has Fox News become a mouthpiece for the republican party and CNN a mouthpiece for the Democratic party? What about the other news outlets, are they also working with an agenda that helps to slant the News towards their perspective or is it all about raking in the audience and making the bucks?

  • Oct 6 2012: I think in America MSNBC and especially faux news are partisan. CNN is so desperately trying to stay in the middle that it becomes a political position itself (and it also keeps shifting to the right because the middle is shifting to the right), the same "stay in the middle at all cost (in politics)"/"false balance (in science)" disease affects most media around the world (partly because it's ingrained in journalism students by their professors). What's also a problem is that many different media outlets are owned by the same holding (such as Rupert Murdoch's), this causes situations where people think "hey, 3 out of 5 newspapers reported on this, so there must be something to it" while those 3 newspapers are not indpendent at all. I also don't like the media just copying messages from Reuters, AP, with no fact checking and no context (so you end up with 50 newspapers all saying net worth of company X went down 40% last year, but none of them telling you the dollar or euro amount of the net worth because the press agency didn't include that in their message and the "journalists" at the 50 newspapers don't bother looking into it themselves). Ironically the state-funded BBC has a much better track record on just pursuing truth than many commerical media empires.

    Edit: I must add though that, especially in America people tend to perceive a position of some outlet that used to be centrist (or just common sense) in the past as leftist today because it's so far to the left of faux news, while it is faux news that has gone to the right, the other outlet didn't turn left, it just stayed put. A lot of stuff has been polticized since Reagan but especially since George W. Bush, to the point where even evolution is now seen as a poltical opinion rather than just scientific truth.
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      Oct 6 2012: JSmith,

      I'm going to try and get the owners of the Major news outlets and post them in this question. Feel free to beat me to it.
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      Oct 6 2012: I agree... But, have one minor disagreement... and plug. AP, is pretty good. If you actually ever go back to the AP source, it's usually relatively non partisan, and fact oriented.
      • Oct 6 2012: AP may be good but that's not the problem, the problem is that everyone copies them literally and we're supposed to pay for that.

        @David Hamilton below

        Unless you want to classify libertarians as liberals (in the American sense of the word), it's not just liberals who push economics as a science. I can assure you that Keynesian stimulus works (it's not actually digging a hole, but repairing infrastructure that needed to be repaired anyway), although it may not be the best possible way, it's just that some on the left forget that it only works if you run a surplus during the good times. Capitalism is inherently flawed (like any system) because when you are at the top of the ladder it's easier to kick someone below you in the face until they fall than it is for him to grapb your ankle and pull you down. When not actively combatted (not necessarily by government, unions can do this too) income inequality will tend to increase in capitalism. From an ethical point of view capitalism is flawed because the market is amoral, it doesn't reward effort, it rewards your ability to convince other people you are making an effort. Current capitalism also does not count dwindling of resource reserves and the biosphere as a cost, but I'm not sure changing that would compromise the core tenets of capitalism, so I'm gonna give capitalism a pass on that one.
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          Oct 6 2012: Responding in a different place... but, I would just say that the problem, is that liberals would like to convince people that economics is science, and Keynes won the rational argument. On almost every other issue, they are on the side of science and rational, but on psychology, and economics, they tend believe people are basically good, and they do good things for the sake of doing good without self interested motivation.

          The problem here, is that economics, impact the daily life of the average citizen, more than any social issue. Also, just to be clear, I'm actually not sure Keynes philosophy is inherently flawed, much as I'm not convinced that capitalism is inherently flawed. I think the "dig a ditch and fill it back in", and "trickle down", extrapolation of both philosophies, makes absolutely no sense.

          If the government is capable of making rational investments, then don't "dig a ditch and fill it back in"... Don't spend more on the military than we need... etc. Get creative, green mine national parks, teach job skills, start an infrastructure corps, online university... etc.

          If trickle down worked, wealth distribution wouldn't have gotten horrible over the last decade... Empower middle class people to build businesses in their garage... that's capitalism, that works.
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        Oct 6 2012: I tend to trust AP sources too. I have a RSS feed from them.
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        Oct 6 2012: Agree on the AP source. And even if everybody copies from them, they usually provide a factual foundation for you to research the topic in other areas other than the copiers.
  • Oct 8 2012: Yes. The media is for those in power to; condition, mislead, and laugh at the poor
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    Oct 7 2012: Let's be clear: Fox News never represented itself as unbiased. The ridiculous "fair and Impatrial" moniker aside, Fox News established itself as a counter balance to what it perceived was a liberal bias in the news. In actuality, they realised they could make money by spinning news to a specific segment of the population who already had very narrow and conservative viewpoints. These people were not being served (or rather, pandered to) by a media that actually tried to present facts in a coherent manner enough to make people think.

    Yes, I am saying that Fox News started out with the intent of pretending to be news so that they could make money off a segment of the population who did not like the news. Along the way they have grown into the ultimate conservative propaganda machine.

    The most insidious fallout from this has been that other media outlets, such as CNN and NBC, were thus pushed into a position where they had to make their presentation of the news as angry and as exciting as Fox. If they continued with the same boring "here's the facts format" they would be put out of business. Some might even say they they were just forced to take off their mask. In all honestly, news has always been slanted, just never before slung with such bile.

    Ultimately, the fault lies with the people. If the people were interested in hearing the facts, the news would present the facts. But we want to be catered to, and we want to know that our convictions are right, and by God we sure don't want to be asked to think. If we truly wanted facts in our news we would be tied to the AP wire and that would be our only source.

    I love editorials, and I love journalism presented like hard-boiled detective fiction, but I separate that from real news and I never confuse the two. Unfortunately, very few people even want to distinguish the difference between their own narrow minded outlook and that lost incomprehensible called reality.
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    Oct 6 2012: Let's all drop cable and attract attention. Nationwide, everybody just call the cable company and say "disconnect please...."

    When they ask why just say we don't like the Network News agencies.
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      Oct 6 2012: Yes. Why should we pay the cable company to broadcast their own propaganda?

      What I've been doing recently is noting what commercials are being broadcast during news feeds....primarily from the internet and radio. This gives me an idea on which companies are financing and directing the propaganda. It's a bit harder on cable because we send them a nice chunck of discretionary income every month.

      The biggest companies I see who are benefiting from the status quo are 1: Auto Insurance, 2.Health Insurance, 3: Auto Manufacturers, 4. Law Firms, 5. Energy companies, 6. General Electric, and 7. Oil companies and their subsidiaries.

      I'll let you connect the dots ;)
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        Oct 6 2012: Yes, It might be a tad unsettling if everyone closed their cable account.

        Think about it. It wouldn't hurt a single consumer. It would put money back in the pocket of many Americans. The big seven would move heaven and earth to get us some proper, impartial News coverage.

        Kids grades in school would go up. The porn industry would lose money. Cable and satellite companies would start to compete and lower their prices by at leas 1/2. Parents would have more time to spend with their kids playing cards and board games.

        Now do you believe that anyone would dare shut off their cable?

        I'm the only one. I've already did it with one phone call. It's just that easy. I'll get my mom to shut her's off too tomorrow.

        Image how it would affect the Presidential campaign? Image the promises they would make?

        Image if we didn't turn cable back on again?

        We fully control our lives we are just afraid too. Corporate America got rich, one dollar at the time. Imagine if we just keep our money in the bank and didn't spend it for 6 months?

        We have only our ineptitude to blame for the condition the world is in. It's not our leaders fault for simply holding out their hands and finding them filled with money when they pull it back. It's ours for putting the money in their hand in the first place.
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    Oct 7 2012: To your main questions my answer is
    Yes I feel so.....
    Sometimes there is no news even and they make news to sell......
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    Oct 6 2012: New should be news and not tainted by bias political viewpoint. To have a Liberal channel and a conservative channel is only creating a divide and civil unrest. Just stick to the facts and quit propagating a political agenda....it only feeds corruption and deciet. Which is a complete waste of time and energy. The truth requires much less energy than to perpetuate lies.
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    Oct 6 2012: you should just consider reading as a way of killing time . you will never know the turth
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      Oct 6 2012: VE已经学到的真理。 所有的旧人都知道了真相。 它需要花费一生的时间来学习它。 什么样的新闻您是否有在您的生活吗? 他们放在新闻吗?

      I've already learned the truth. All old people know the truth. It takes a lifetime to learn it.

      What kind of news do you have where you live? What do they put on the news?
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        Oct 7 2012: chinese daily .is a good newspaper.i think you can have a look
        i dont know weather you learn the turth or not .i think seeking is a pleasure .the process is very important .i dont not care the outcome. while i hope we can find the truth .if not ,whatever..just try our best
        谢谢你的中文,很不错。
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          Oct 7 2012: 感谢您。 我每天都读中文的时间。

          I read the Chines Daily all the time. Thank you.
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      Oct 7 2012: 让我们所有下拉电缆和吸引注意力。 在全国范围内,每个人都只需调用该电缆公司说:“拔下请......” 当他们问为什么说,我们不喜欢网络新闻机构.

      Let us all pull-down cable and attract attention. Within the country, and everyone just call the cable company said: "Please remove ... " When they asked why, we do not like network news agencies.
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        Oct 7 2012: why do you delete your comment ,can you give me a reason ,i think it is not a good thing .i can not bear .我很生气,后果很严重。
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          Oct 7 2012: 我说错。 我偏离主题,我应删除自己。

          I say the wrong things sometimes. I get off topic and I should delete myself.

          你为什么生气,会有怎样的后果?
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        Oct 7 2012: ok since you have commented ,you should not delete it i consider it as a rude.

        and i am just kidding .nothing more

        ans i have a question when do you learn your chinese ,and how? you know chinese is one of the most difficult languages..我很好奇
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          Oct 7 2012: I study Linguistics and understand the dialects of many languages. I have met many people in the world and like people very much. It is a respect to talk to them in their language.

          If you use a translator, you must also know how the language works, how it makes sense and is normally used. With Chinese people. If you don't show respect they might not read your writing.

          Babylon 9.

          我研究语言学和理解的方言多种语言。 我见过很多人,在世界上很多人。 这是一个方面,谈一谈,他们的语言。 如果您使用了一个转换程序,你还必须知道如何工作的语言,它是如何具有意义,或通常情况下使用。 与中国人。 如果你不尊重他们可能不能读取你的写作。
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    Oct 6 2012: By going through the comments I think we all agree that FOX is Consertative and all the rest are Liberal. There is no doubt that the major concern is selling ads and the bottom line is profit. So is the news slanted .... you bet if we agree on the above then how could it not be.

    That leaves us with the question of how did this come about. The best example I can think of is Rupert Murdoch. At one time papers were owned by many people and did not have a "central" corporation. Now Rupert owns a vast amount of influence. If an editor were to publish something that Rupert was in disagreement with politically he would most likely "never work in this business again".

    Ted Turner has many affiliate stations and that has made him wealthy and very influential.

    Both forms of media has evolved into super owners and that is what I think has led us to this point in the reporting of the news. That is a real problem. As big as that is, the readers/listeners buying all of what they write/say is worse. That we have become a nation of sheeple who no longer question everything let alone anything is the real problem.

    We accept August job gains ... when they are replacing summer help with more temporary help .... We accept October job gains ... when stores are ramping up temporary help for holiday sales. We are told that the economy is improving .... when QE3 plainly tells us we are going down. We are told that Obamacare is a tax ..... and not a entry into the medical and insurance business. We are not only drinking the koolade we have started shopping for it when we run low.

    So we all agree on the stated issue .... what is the solution? Where do we go from here?

    Bob
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      Oct 6 2012: Can we truthfully talk about the solution on the internet?

      I mean, how do we say what needs to be said, without saying it because it might attract attention?

      About network news that is?
    • Oct 6 2012: "We accept August job gains ... when they are replacing summer help with more temporary help .... We accept October job gains ... when stores are ramping up temporary help for holiday sales."

      We accept those because unemployment statistics are only useful if they are consistent: job reports under Bush and Clinton made all the same mistakes as the job reports under Obama, and so would job reports under Romney and if you compensate all of them the way you want to it would probably make Obama look better (because the ratios would get smaller). Besides, what you claim sounds really desperate, your "summer and holiday" claims already cover 6 months of every 12 month year, so I might as well claim the unemployment rate is overvalued during the other 6 months. There are probably just as many reasons to say it is overvalued as there are to say it is undervalued, again, only picking one side of the equation sounds desperate.

      That said I don't believe Obama created all those jobs or Romney will create all the jobs that would appear under his term. The majority of gains and losses come from simple regression toward the mean: Obama was likely to see employment gains because he started at a time when unemployment was at rock bottom, Romney would be likely to see faster, more stable economic growth because the probability of the recession enduring another year shrinks with every year.

      It's Germany all over again: Germany grew slowly before the crisis, shrank 4% at the start of the crisis, then quickly saw 4% growth, then grew slowly again and every time all the pundits and "experts" were asking what was going on because they only focused on separate years, they didn't see the 4% growth as simply people going back to work again once cash flows were re-established and they didn't see the slow growth afterwards as a return to normal.
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        Oct 6 2012: When the high school kids go back to work they do not claim unemployment whic really skews the facts. All the the auto workers that were recalled were counted as new jobs. People who have lost unemployment claims are just vacated figures.

        I ran a conversation on this a month or so ago.

        It would be great to see real figures that put all of these things into a slot. No politician would ever allow it.

        Your childish manuever to bait me by calling this conversation desperate displays a often used tactic. Is that really how you roll or are you better than that?
        • Oct 6 2012: You did not understand the point of my comment, let me spell it out for you: all the flaws in the current jobs reports MUST be there because if you take them out you can't compare the jobs reports to older jobs reports any longer and that kinda defeats the entire purpose of having jobs reports in the first place. If you want to add 0.3 percentage points to October 2012's 7.8% you also have to add something to October 2007's 4.7%. Even if you only add 0.2 to 4.7% you still end up making Obama look better because 8.1/4.9 < 7.8/4.7

          And yes, I still think it's pathetic to call higher jobs numbers for 6 months out of every year a temporary uplift that must be corrected for. Why wouldn't summer jobs count? They counted under George Bush and nobody complained about that back then.

          Please tell me you're not a birther...
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        Oct 7 2012: John our recession is due to high energy costs. With all the drilling and Fracking that occurred under Obama’s watch, we still won't see the returns come online for another ten years or so. If Romney gets elected, he will put more taxpayers money in the Military, drive up the national debt and set us up for the final fall, just in the first 4 year. It doesn't matter what he says in the media, you can't build anything out of thin air.

        Obama's job increase in the medical field is due to the Veteran's administration hiring more aid workers to take care of home health care for older Veterans. My Father-in-Law is one of those veterans. They come to his home 5 times a week. They don't make a lot of money but there were many jobs created.

        Like I said, the news likes to report that we are making headway on getting more energy but the more we get, the more they sell overseas where they get 5 times the price they do in our country.

        This recession will continue to get worse if we don't create jobs with the new energy sources. Build more wind mills and drill more deep geothermal heat facilities. We will have to power down anyway we look at it and that means making changes in the way we live in our homes. Buy led lights, etc.
        Trash the plasma TVs and buy led TV's. or laser light projectors. Buy less toys. We need to create jobs, not put poor people to work digging ditches for pipelines to send oil overseas at our ports in Louisiana, where the Rich oil company’s purchased all the land after hurricane Katrina. Pipelines don’t need anything but maintenance after they are built. That’s not a future job market.
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    Oct 6 2012: MSNBC is a liberal propaganda machine. Fox News, is a conservative propaganda machine. CNN is the worst of all, it's bias is fairness... They put a hard lefter on, and a hard righter on, and the news anchor/journalist, just stands in the middle like "I'm too stupid to know who's telling the truth... What are you people tweeting about? You're all smarter than us".
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      Oct 6 2012: Good to see you weigh in here David.

      I agree 100%
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        Oct 6 2012: I will actually give you a weird answer to your question as to why the country hasn't swung left through the access to information... 2 actually. #1, deeply religious people, have more children than agnostics, and atheists, so we're constantly fighting against 18 years of religious bubble propaganda.

        #2, and... I know you're going to disagree with me on this one... A large percentage of men, think Keynesian economic theory, is exactly as nonsensical, as trickle down economic theory. A large percentage of men, feel like money they contribute to the good of society, and social programs, should be given freely, to invest in business, or to feel good for giving money to a charity.

        Printing money, reduces each individuals net income through inflation... and after 30 years of being unable to pass legislation to fund social programs for increased life expectancy... We are forcing young workers, to bear the burden of a group of individuals who did not pay for the services they recieve. On the right, the answer is "End the program right after I retire"... completely insolvent, nonsense. Everyone 40 already paid into this for 20 years.

        On the left however, the secret solution, is "print money, and raise minimum wage"... Thus more and more people are reduced to a governmentally designated subsistence wage, and have no opportunity to become the next generation of entrepreneurs that would open businesses, and save our economy. Many young men, feel this is un fair, and the Republican Party offers them an outlet for that anger "We never should have done any of this"...

        I feel it is unfair, but I feel it is unfair because of one generation of lazy people, and if we invest in young people, and start paying for the programs now, maybe we can pull out of this... I understand how I come off as siding with the Republicans at times, but moreso, I just can't believe no one is admitting the mess we're in... and we call these people adults, and leaders.
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          Oct 6 2012: I'm not sure what that has to do with the news outlets David.
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        Oct 6 2012: Everything... The entire media is a propaganda tool, for something that a large portion of the population refuse to accept, because it's based on logically invalid principles. One side of the propaganda, merely provides those people with an outlet through which to vent there anger, but no actual policy. The other side, simply talks double speak, and pretends it's not destroying the economy following principles which defy logic.

        An objective news outlet would have absolutely no interest in anything either of these men say anymore.
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          Oct 6 2012: If it's so bad David, why do you continue to watch it? I don't watch the national network news anymore, but I was always a newspaper guy anyway. I have some RSS feeds, as we spoke of earlier, and many sites I download stuff from, mostly in other countries.

          I do read PBS and have a link to their site (RSS). I written some spiders to track down news for me when it is questionable.


          I also write news for some sites.

          Lately, I'm seeing News sources reporting news then deleting the news.

          I miss Walter Cronkite.
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        Oct 6 2012: I mostly watch comedy news, Bill Maher and Jon Stewart.... I have to admit I dig Rachel Maddow, but she still glosses over on the economy like most of them... It's all corporations sponsored by the government which advertise on their show.

        Still, you have to know how "normal" people are thinking if you ever hope to change anyone's mind, so I'll throw them on in the background occasionally for that purpose.

        Slashdot is probably my number one news source "News for Nerds... Stuff that Matters!"... but they don't talk politics all that often. Besides... Just because I'm pissed off, and I think you're all dumb and crazy... Doesn't mean I'm right. Gotta hedge my bets, in case I don't need to bolt off into another country next chance I get. I really do think it's awful here though, I consider moving to NZ whenever I get a little extra money in my account... but then I remember it's the same everywhere. Maybe when everything gets really bad you'll be able to be left alone in places like Alaska...
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        Oct 6 2012: Haven't even heard of Slate strangely enough, I'll check it out. Fact check is okay, but it usually just reinforces whatever I already thought... "Liar!" : p

        Shouldn't news media occasionally be investigating and finding a better solution to a problem, and presenting that to our politicians... Is there really no one in the scientific, educational, or business community who has an idea that makes sense?

        I feel like every news report should say "This is how the left will solve the problem"... "This is how the right will solve the problem"... and "This is how a sane rational adult would approach solving the problem (With a citation of several doctors)"
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          Oct 6 2012: Yeah, doctors not on the payroll.

          slate is a bit heady but they try to exhibits some ethics in reporting. You should check out the Link John Smith posted. It sums it up real well.
        • Oct 6 2012: In the US every time a scientist or medical doctor appears in the media it is seen as liberal propaganda, because all scientists are in on the great liberal science conspiracy or something like that (the truth is reality has a liberal bias). When the people have been convinced everything is just an opinion, it doesn't matter how many real experts (I do not count economists as real experts because they all contradict each other and economics is not a science) you put out there in the media...
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        Oct 6 2012: John, my son is quite attached to Science Daily.
        I do not take cable television. I watch AlJazeera now and then, not because I believe they, or any source, offers unbiased news, but because I would never know anything about what is happening in the rest of the world from the major networks. It would be like looking at only a few little pieces of a puzzle.
  • Oct 6 2012: Moonstroller, The media is excruciatingly biased for a couple of reasons. For starters its geared for profit, so how do they make money? Advertising, they play to a certain audience for advertisers who wish to sell their specific product to a certain demographic. The major news outlets are also accountable to the people who actually own the company so theres hardly any correlation to the views of the newscaster and the slant of their story, they do a job and take orders too. Another reason why you see the same talking heads on tv is that you need to be able to speak on television and get your points across in a very concise manner, so guys like Noam Chomsky are neglected on these ridiculous shows where people shout at each other for 30 seconds or so. I think there are some places you can find legitimate news stories on the internet, but no guarantees there. What a shame though, we live in a world where democracy may very well be its last hope and an informed republic seems to have been made impossible.
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    Oct 6 2012: The news is screwy for sure. I can tell liberals spend more money on the media than conservatives. Michael Savage needs a show. Yeah!
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    Oct 7 2012: To properly fix a problem, one must first determine the drivers. It should be mentioned that the media is funded by it's advertising dollars and contributors. Those are the players who stand to gain or lose depending on political agendas. The media is simply a mouthpiece sold out to the highest advertising dollars. Media should be thought of as entertainment only...since the facts really don't appease our attention anymore.

    "There's a sucker born every minute" P.T. Barnum
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    Oct 7 2012: it is a good point that they just want you to think .they are cheating you .
    they are publicizing their own ideas ,they may get interests in it .so it is not a good habbit to read newspaper.
    i think i will let moon down ,he has dovoted most of his time to newspaper ,it is a pity..just as i said

    thank you very much for your poin t.
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      Oct 7 2012: 您将永远不会让我失望陈。 您青年人是未来。 运行您自己种族和不回看我们。 我们都太老了,RUN(运行)”。 重要的是,年轻的竞赛中取胜。

      Work hard and win. Make the news better.
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        Oct 7 2012: i hope i can .
        thank you very much .
        i respect you very much .you speak a good chinese well done !
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    Oct 6 2012: "On Listening Post this week: The battle for control of Iran's cyberspace. Plus, Kashmir and the rise of a new online army.

    The Iranian government’s decision to block Google last week provoked concerns among the country’s online community that the Persian firewall had just become harder to penetrate. Then, just as quickly as it had been disconnected, Google came back online. But despite the u-turn, for many, the Google incident reflected the government's wider strategy to control who is saying what to whom in Iran.... "

    http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/listeningpost/2012/10/201210671528877108.html
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    Oct 6 2012: Here's a good example of manipulated news for campaign purposes.
    http://www.freep.com/article/20121006/BUSINESS07/310060038/Conspiracy-theory-nearly-overshadows-positive-news-on-lowest-unemployment-rate-in-nearly-4-years?odyssey=nav|head

    Apparently the president's people are manipulating the labor figures to put them in a favorable light.
    • Oct 6 2012: No, that's not what the link claims, that's what you want to read. It cites two people (the very fact that it only cites two, one pro, one con is false balance in itself since in this case the second one makes a much better case), one saying the figures were manipulated because they look good for Obama, the other one (a Bush appointed republican official) saying it would be impossible to get all the civil servants involved in on such a conspiracy. Currently there is no evidence whatsoever there was manipulation, all we have is one guy screaming it makes Obama look better than he'd personally like.

      This is real manipulation: http://blog.hiddenharmonies.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/cnn_lies.jpg
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        Oct 6 2012: Yes Manipulation it is. We used to call such stuff "propaganda". but it depended on who was manipulating it.

        Maybe, there is a war going on and the Journalists are all doing thier part?

        So ethics in New reporting has gone the way of the Dinosaur it appears.
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    Oct 6 2012: since there is heat debate i think it is time to join in
    first i will my point about this theme .i think what you said is right ,you live in ameica i think it is the most feture ,and i think most of americans share the same same opinion and share the same interests,lets just regardless of right or wrong . you all impacted by the same information ,how can can you create somethig new .for example .frog in the mine always know the things in the mine ,how can you except him to know something outside of the mine .so the rooted reason why feeding us a one sided version of the news is that you americans not live accross the globle.you are all in america,or most of you are in america .

    the second different countries have the different interests ,i think when a journalist ask you is china much better or america ,i think most of you will say ameria.so when you can stand at the piont of the world is the time that you fight for human beings really . we are all belongs to some parties or some companies.so it is indeed a one sided of vision.that is it

    and Rick.
    i think you are right ,that the wealth would like to help the poor .why because they think that it is better to help ,why because money is not thieir purchase ,maybe they just want a reputation .
    i think when you give the two link to moon i think he is laughing .because he meets his goal.he want it .
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      Oct 6 2012: I read the Chinese Newspapers as well as many around our planet.

      I like your frog analogy.
      My interest is in the News, how it's feed to people and is there a way to find the real picture of the world view by using the internet as our sole media device. I, for one, never watch TV anymore so I'm not exposed to CNN or FOX news. I have no links to their sites on my computer. I like Newspapers, the online kind.
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        Oct 6 2012: oh my god
        i think you misunderstand me .i have never say you are against successful people .how can you draw that ,where do you conclusion .

        i am happy that you are a person of success

        and i share the same hobby with you .i always want to find turth .
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          Oct 6 2012: All is okay now. I fixed the message.
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          Oct 6 2012: Just to be sure Chan, I didn't "give the two links to moon" (John) specifically. I don't take cheap shots at anybody...that is counter-productive. If my post came across that way, it was my bad in the way I typed it. The links were for the entire community to look at and consider, if they wanted to.

          Also, I realize I may just be mis-interpreting your post, too. Language barriers, etc. But I just wanted to clarify it.
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    Oct 6 2012: There is some interesting input from some members about Liberal vs Conservative news reporting.

    With the Internets ability to enhance everyone's world view, I would think that people would become more Liberal minded, but that doesn't appear to be the case. It makes me wonder, does the news make the mind or is the mind set in what it wants to read, hear or see?

    As the Internet takes over the role of primary media provider as predicted by social savvy predictors of the future, How will owners and organizations that own the News syndicates evolve to keep their share of the advertising market or, are they doomed by the Internets, Open, Social structure?
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      Oct 6 2012: i think our culture is becoming more and more single because of the computer
      what do you think of that .i want you answer
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        Oct 6 2012: Yes. Our culture is becoming more and more single (alike) because the computer helps us to communicate.

        I have a cousin who's grandfather fought the Japanese during WWII. His grandfather was with the Flying Tigers in China.

        I believe, before long, China will have a moon base. You may even get to visit the Moon.
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          Oct 6 2012: what you said is ture .i hope i can but i think the possibility is zero .
          and thank you for your family have contributed to china's anti-japanese war .yeah ,flying tiger is world famous .and they fly a difficult way in to china .and we wont forget that .

          chinese wont forgrt that ,
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        Oct 7 2012: I think the computer is bring us together everyday. Even though our news is different.

        My Cousins grandfather flew for the Flying tigers against the Japanese during WII. I hope China will not forget we were on their side.

        我的表兄表姐的爷爷飞的飞虎队对日本在Wii游戏机。 我希望中国不会忘记了,我们是在他们的一方。
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      Oct 6 2012: John,

      I just saw your above post. I totally agree with it. It seems that there are a lot of different conversations in different topic threads that are inter-related right now. One of the other conversations is about the two-party system. It got me thinking...what if we got rid of both the Republican and Democratic parties tomorrow and started with something new?

      Ex-Republican: "Hey! The government said we don't exist anymore!"

      Ex-Democrat: "Yeah! Same with us!"

      Government: "Well, that's what everybody seemed to want."

      Ex's: "OK, but what do we call ourselves now? Just Liberals and Conservatives?"

      Government: "Uh...actually, no. We got rid of those labels to, because they were directly related to whether you were a Republican or a Democrat for most people."

      Ex's: "Huh? How are we supposed to know who's side anybody is on anymore???"

      Government: "Maybe you could form secret handshakes?"

      News Media: "What the heck are we gonna do now? We will have to come up with NEW LABELS for everybody! AARRGGHH !!!!"

      My mind wanders at 5:30 AM. ;-)
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    Oct 6 2012: (Quote from John): "Rick, if you comment again on this question why don't you find something you think is interesting and unusual, something we probably won't see on the evening news and post a link."

    I do that in a lot of my posts here. But here's the catch. Why should you believe any ONE link I post any more than you believe any ONE news station, website, or any other source? The one link I post should be your STARTING point in a continuos examination of whatever the link is about (including "The News").

    The key is to COMPARE sources. That way you aren't blindly putting your trust in any one source. Of course, that takes being objective. If you insist on aligning yourself with any one group (Republican/Democrat, Liberal/Conservative, Pepsi/Coke, etc) you are only going to believe the truth is what your group alliance tells you to believe.

    You asked me to post a link about something interesting, unusual, and not something you would see on the news tonight. OK. The below should ruffle some feathers. ;-)

    I've been curious about something since I joined TED. I see so many posters saying things like, "The rich have way too much money and it should be redistributed to the poor so everybody is even. The rich are only in it for themselves."

    Have these same posters looked at these pages on the TED website?

    http://www.ted.com/pages/41

    http://www.ted.com/pages/tedtalks_sponsors

    According to those posters, TED must be an elitist group of rich people and businesses who don't give a darn about anybody but themselves. Yet this website and TED itself is FULL of "rich" supporters trying to "change the world" for the better.

    Don't bite the hand that feeds you. There are plenty of wealthy people trying to make the world better. If all they hear is, "You Suck!!!", I wouldn't blame them for leaving and saying, "Well, to heck with you, too!" (although they won't, because they are objective enough to know they can't please everybody).
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      Oct 6 2012: Interesting insight on the the rich and famous people of TED, Rick. I should have been more clear. I was hoping for some news link on a newspaper, perhaps from another country like the ones I'm posting. I trust your opinion that they are news worthy, not feather ruffling, just journalistic in nature.

      I'm sorry to hear your having problems with other poster about picking on your rich friends. I wrote an interesting question about cyber bullies and Trolls. If your having problems, get a read on that question. There was some good advice. In fact, I think you had some good advice.



      Thanks anyway.
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        Oct 6 2012: I'm not intentionally trying to ruffle any feathers, John. Sometimes I play Devil's Advocate though. :-)

        Your news links are just as valid as anyone else's. But they are only as accurate as they are true. To determine the validity of the information in them, someone needs to compare them to other reports, ideas, and analysis of the information. That's what this whole thread is about.

        Who do you trust? Who can you trust?

        No simple answers to those questions. But there are ways to minimize the chances that someone isn't basing a decision on just one point of view that may or may not be "true".

        You and I seem to agree on most things. Sorry if I gave you the impression I was dissing anything you said or posted.
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          Oct 6 2012: No problem. I still notice you didn't post a link to a newspaper source you find trustworthy?

          Do you read online News?
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        Oct 6 2012: "Do you read online news"?

        Depends on what you call "news". There are sources I use on a somewhat regular basis, but no...I can not give you a SINGLE source that I trust implicitly 100% of the time. That's why you haven't seen me post one. Even with the numerous sources I would call "trustworthy", THEY even disagree and analyze the "news" differently. So I have the same problem anyone else has. I have to read several sources, then draw on my own life experiences to make rational conclusions about the subject. My life experiences are different than others. But I spent many years doing the "stuff" that people complain about, and I know from experience that many of the times the complaints are invalid, and the proposed solutions can be even worse.

        My brother is 9 years older than me. He goes to websites that are so full of "radical" posts, then asks me why my government or military is doing the "stuff" he reads there. It takes me a long time to make him realize that much of the stuff he reads on those sites is BS. It can be quite difficult doing that when I can't reveal "classified" information I knew about in the past, but myself can use to draw conclusions about what is real or not today. There is some information that I still "know" that will go to my grave with me (don't anybody get all excited about that...it's not "James Bond" stuff). I will never reveal that information to even my family. That was my responsibility during my "public service" as a military member. And it is still my responsibility as a civilian citizen again.

        You are prior military, John. If you had a security clearance, I'm sure you can understand what I'm saying. I had TS/SBBI/SCI/SIOP. Plus a couple "others".

        That's the type of information that needs to be kept "secret" in order for the leaders of any country to ensure the safety and security of the country. Even the news media won't get that information unless someone
        breaks the law. So they guess, too.
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          Oct 6 2012: Rick I'm not inquiring anything. We are talking about public news, not government secrets. The information you are giving is not in relation to anything I have asked. I suggest if it is official you delete it from the public view. I will delete this message in a little while after I'm sure you have read it. I sent you a PM.
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        Oct 6 2012: EDIT: This reply is to a reply post that has been deleted by John. I'm going to leave mine here. It is just a further clarification of my posts to this topic thread. Nothing in any of my posts is intended to "flame" anybody. TED encourages the sharing of questions, ideas, and debates. That is the reasons for my posts.
        ---------------------------------

        I don't see any reason to delete anything, John. The crux of the original topic is "truth" in the news. And it asks about "slanted" news sources, and even uses the word "propaganda". The fact is, the news media is guessing about real world events most of the time. Anybody who analyzes something is going to "slant" it. So, where does somebody want to get news that is closest to the truth, not slanted, and not propaganda? Pick whatever sources make somebody happy. If they already have pre-conceived notions about what the truth is, even the real truth won't change their mind.

        Nothing I included in any of my posts is classified. I have no desire to become a convicted felon for the rest of my life. You can GOOGLE it all you want. It's out there.
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    Oct 6 2012: "El Universal" Venezuelan News

    "99.76% of polling stations across the country have been set up.."

    "On Friday, 39,018 polling stations were set up in polling places around Venezuela. This is the step that precedes the opening of polling stations, which is scheduled to take place on October 7 at 5:00 am..."

    http://www.eluniversal.com/english/

    What do Venezuelans really think about Libya and Iran?

    "....What do we have in common with Iran apart from producing oil? Or Belarus?" Capriles countered. "Isn't its president a dictator? You tell me! We honored [late Libyan leader Moammar] Gadhafi twice. Are those the relations Venezuelans want? No!"

    http://www.dw.de/dw/article/0,,16279015,00.html
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    Oct 6 2012: "Anybody expecting the European Union to take decisive action to end the Syria crisis could be left disappointed, experts say. Instead, the bloc will likely pressure Turkey to accept help dealing with refugees." ~DW AKADEMIE (German News).

    "...The crisis between Syria and the European Union's long-time accession candidate Turkey has been intensifying, but security experts have warned of exaggerated expectations as far as possible actions from the EU's bloc of 27 member states to help end the crisis are concerned..."

    http://www.dw.de/dw/article/0,,16288683,00.html
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    Oct 6 2012: The EuroFora News Site.

    "Spain: Jailed Turkish Terror suspect with Explosive,Drones,Chechen accomplices stirs Merah+ Burgas ?
    RTF"

    "The Turkish Terrorism suspect with Explosives, Drones, Poison, Hide-out, etc. arrested Thursday in Spain, had "trained", equipped and hosted 2 Chechen "Independents" accomplices heading towards France, who had Pakistani/Afghan links, similar to the Islamist Terrorist Merah, the Murderer of Jewish Children and their Father in Toulouse at crucial moment of the French Presidential Elections' campaign, as it was revealed after a Press Conference by Spanish Interior Minister Diaz, followed by relevant moves by French Minister Valls, convergent with relevant New developments even on the Bulgarian Deadly Terrorist case's investigation, (See Infra)."

    http://www.eurofora.net/brief/brief/turksandchechenarrestedforterrorisminspainandbulgaria.html
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    Oct 6 2012: "Eventually, you have to trust someone" ~ Rick Ryan.

    You hit the nail right on the head Rick. There are some considerations though. Is it practical to pay 100 + each month just to watch one half hour of the one newscaster you can trust?

    Most of them have a website or blog and, believe it or not, they are limited what they can say or talk about because they belong to the major network they work for and, consequently, so does anything they say.

    I tend to stay with the internet for news and take the time to search out a story. But, I'm also retired and have time to do such things.

    There are many things you can do with your own website, forum, and chat channel. RSS news feeds and spiders to search for just the stuff you like. Of course not everyone can do this but you can find blogs where the people do it for themselves. On my forum the Members (when I get more) will provide the local news reports from their locals and hopefully, I will have members from around the world. Right now the only active member is Ken and he provided a link to his local newspaper in New Zealand. It would be nice if the other members were more active like some people in Australia for instance. I always want to know how the Aussies feel about us and their activities. The BBC is cool.

    "Remember...propaganda is ineffective against a person if they have reasonably ACCURATE evidence against it." ~ Rick Ryan,

    Yes, I agree this is paramount to having an excellent world view of things on the planet Earth.

    Rick, if you comment again on this question why don't you find something you think is interesting and unusual, something we probably won't see on the evening news and post a link. Later.
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    Oct 6 2012: Bias is bias. It doesn't matter where it comes from...a news outlet, a website, or an individual.

    I agree with Pat...the major news networks are not reporting unbiased news anymore. There is big money in aligning your news show with a segment of the population. When CNN started the news-network phenomena, you would aee a 30-minute recap of major world news events every half-hour, 24-hours a day. Unless something new and MAJOR happened, you could watch CNN Headline News for 5 hours and nothing would change. Today, over half of their 24-hour programming is not "news" at all. It is a series of 30-minute or 1-hour segments of somebody telling you what you should think, under the guise of "analyzing" the "story" for you. FOX News is no different.

    And I agree with Fritzie also. Most "news" today is meaningless. OctoMom gave birth how many years ago? Why do I need to know she just did her first "stripper pole performance" at a new job? That's not really a life changing experience for me, nor one of humanity's most pressing issues.

    Today, if you want to get factual information that MEANS something, you have to search for it. But just like you feel you may not be able to trust "The News" programs today, you can NOT blindly place your trust in just anyone else. So, what do you do?

    Eventually, you have to trust someone. In my life experience, the most trustfull people are the RECOGNIZED experts in their fields. This doesn't mean that just because one Republican or one Democrat says his fellow peer is "right" makes it "right". Look for outside unbiased organizations for your references. Someone who has received a Nobel Prize is probably trustworthy AND knowledgable about what they are talking about. Consumers Reports will be unbiased in telling you if an advertiser's claims about their product is "trustworthy".

    Remember...propaganda is ineffective against a person if they have reasonably ACCURATE evidence against it.
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    Oct 6 2012: What the Russian and French think about the Syrian conflict:

    "..."It's obvious that there are some Countres for whom the present situation is Profitable, and they don't want to change it", President Melnikov denounced, (apparently hinting also at the Turkish Government, which notoriously searches to exclude the Syrian Kurds a.o. from any eventual Collective Deal on Syria's future, thereby Dividing the Syrian Opposition, as well as to "sell" its Militarist apparatus, despite of its 1984-2012 obvious inability to put a Stop to the Kurdish conflict with Weapons only, while also being probably afraid of eventual consequences also inside Turkey itself, if the recent 2011-2012 3rd Mediterranean Democratic Change Popular Movements succeeded to spread Peacefuly from Morocco up to Neighbouring Syria)... "
    http://www.eurofora.net/brief/brief/dumavpresidentonsyria.html
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    Oct 6 2012: Here's a taste of what they think of our election in New Zealand:
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10838681

    The New Zealand Herald. Story by Fran O'Sullivan

    "...Neither the Democratic nominee nor his Republican challenger had anything compelling to say about the big issue of our times. How a once proud capitalistic country has become so mired in debt, so unprepared to live within its means and so reliant on the iniquitous policies of its central bank to keep it chugging along as it heads towards a financial cliff..."
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    Oct 6 2012: What I think is most pronouced is the choice of stories that the various outlets find worthy of report. There is a lot of coverage of non-stories, while we can easily not hear anything about important news stories overseas.

    Newspapers and internet sources often do the same.
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      Oct 6 2012: That's a very important point Fritzie. I've noticed this also. Ken Brown, who lives in New Zealand posted his hometown newspaper in my forum and I was astounded to discover we, the USA, have a very active agenda, involving spying in that region of the world. While it is never mentioned on our evening news, It is a topic of controversy on their evening and daily news.

      As you say, it is what we don't hear or see that would probably be important to us. There is a TED video I'll post on this question site that deals with the issue of stylized, individual news reporting and advertisements.
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    Oct 6 2012: It is all about selling advertising and that is all it is. Clearly liberal media is better at that.
    We have:
    Msnbc
    Nbc
    Abc
    Cbs
    Pbs radio and Tv
    Cnn

    Are clearly liberal

    But lets get rid of Faux News having this one conservative station is just too much (8^(l)
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      Oct 6 2012: I see your point Pat and you are correct; perhaps we need more conservative input in the news, but not Rush Limbaugh or his want-a-be's.
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        Oct 6 2012: Then Glenn Beck? (8^(l)
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          Oct 6 2012: If it makes the conservatives happy then yes..... Glen Beck. :)
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        Oct 6 2012: 'perhaps we need more conservative input in the news'

        One of seven studies IN A ROW showing that Fox news viewers are less informed than those who view any other news network as a source of information (or no news at all in other studies).
        http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/17/fox-news-viewers-are-the-_n_798146.html

        and by Pats own admission, the only Conservative news agency available.
        We don't need more conservative input on the news, we need reality, which happens to have a liberal slant, thats just how it is.
        Even PBS acknowledges that, apparently (given the list from Mr Gilbert). :P
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          Oct 6 2012: Being a Liberal minded individual I find it hard to disagree Xavier but I am aware if the liberal mindset is not challenged, it can evolve into something we never intended it to be.

          The republican part, in my opinion, ended with President Eisenhower. John McCain is one of the old guard and reasonable aligned with both conservative and Liberal. What we need is more conservative news but news that is aligned more in the middle of the spectrum. Glen Beck started out that way then became a bit outlandish and finally just all round odd.

          I still watch Fox News when I want to see what the other side thinks, but I can only stand it for so long. In my part of the States, Georgia, if you go to the hospital or visit your doctor's office, you will watch Fox News and the remote is always broken, lost, or no one knows how to work the TV. :) We need more conservative leaders calling for more middle of the road conservative news reporting. The idea of dissing about 50% of our population (My own thoughts) is just an outlandish idea. They need to change and we need to help them.... somehow.
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          Oct 6 2012: We is what we is.

          Really, I have made about 1500 posts on TED, what have I said that leads you to believe I am not informed?

          Incidentally the questions on Arianna's (who has demonstrated her profound wisdom many times) blog are genuinely laughable.

          The first question, you bet ya that the stimulus caused job losses, of course you would have to understand why, that nasty comprehension thing is required.

          2 Hmm let me think how has medicare been going since LBJ dreamed that one up lets see can we project forward with O, you bet ya. Of course the propaganda from O is that it will save money, but that is the correct answer REALLY? REALLY? REALLY?

          3 The economy is getting worse, you bet ya, O told us it is getting better, no boys and girls, the propaganda may show some miniscule up tick but when you have almost 4 yr of unemployment above 8% and many more people on food stamps and 16 trillion dollars in debt you bet ya the economy is worst. But that would require a MODICUM of understanding of economics 101

          This class is a clear case of what the psychs call projection.
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          Oct 6 2012: John

          "They need to change and we need to help them.... somehow."

          And there is the rub, liberals say things like this, conservatives say let them find their own way.
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        Oct 6 2012: Yea Glenn Beck is my favorite.
    • Oct 6 2012: " It is all about selling advertising and that is all it is. Clearly liberal media is better at that.
      We have:
      Msnbc
      Nbc
      Abc
      Cbs
      Pbs radio and Tv
      Cnn"

      How are these clearly liberal, id maybe grant you CNN, what are you basing these claims on?
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      Oct 6 2012: CNN is so conservative biased over the last year, it's disgusting... So I don't know what you're talking about. Almost every major news organization does whatever corporations want them to do. Even MSNBC said Obama lost the debate, meanwhile, if you pay attention to policy, or the Romney campaign, everything Romney said in the debate was a bold faced lie.

      This is the real bias... A lie people like to hear, is better than the truth people don't. Obama said, the economy was mediocre and mired in 40 years of incompetent legislation... Romney said, the middle class won't have to pay a dime more... and he won? The middle class isn't going to pay a dime more, while we're 16 trillion dollars in debt... is a winning argument? In fantasy land, where magic fae rain money from the sky.

      There is only one interest that controls media... Business... You know what businesses message is? "Shut up about Gary Johnson."

      If fox news had a conservative bias, he would be on there every night.
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        Oct 6 2012: Honestly I don't watch the news at all so I will take your word for it. From what I hear though and see the major networks, NPR, NYT, are very liberal.