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Voter ID laws in the 2012 election

How can this push by the right to marginalize thousands of voters be accepted? Have they presented any statistical evidence that shows fraud as a significant detriment to democratic process?

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    Oct 2 2012: The Right-wing are trying to find more loopholes to 'legally' commit voter fraud themselves because there is no possible way for a Republican conservative policy to be enacted legitimately; Especially when most of the policies they are currently claiming will 'fix the country' are the very policies that wrecked it in the first place.
    Even the most hardcore republican civilians are starting to see through this sharade.

    Lying, lobbying, bribery, cheating, flip-flopping on policies, arguing against policies that they themselves agreed to and an unmovable bias apparently isn't enough. They're failing and they're clutching at the last few blades of grass before finally going over the cliff (something which will be welcomed by most and applauded by me).

    "Have they presented any statistical evidence that shows fraud as a significant detriment to democratic process?"
    The best way I've heard it explained is that its more likely to be trampled by a cow than for voter fraud to be commited We're talking about a percentage of a percentage. They know this, so no, they haven't provided statistical evidence for this very reason.
    • Oct 2 2012: "The Right-wing are trying to find more loopholes to 'legally' commit voter fraud themselves because there is no possible way for a Republican conservative policy to be enacted legitimately; Especially when most of the policies they are currently claiming will 'fix the country' are the very policies that wrecked it in the first place."
      love it
  • Oct 3 2012: I have spent many many hours trying to help people get the IDS they needed. It was a nightmare. I too sort of vagely assumed mot people wold have some ID but they do not have ID that meet the very strict criteria some states (PA is where I was doing this) have.

    Cases: 82 year old veteran never had license because he was wounded in WWII. His ID he sed for most things was his VA card and SS card. Neither are acceptable. No address, no expiration date.

    Old woman hasn't driven since she lost her eyesight in 1987. Had no valid ID hadn't needed any since she lost her license, her accounts etc were established already. Lived on her own so no nursing home ID. We could not get her a voter ID because she had no idea where her marriage certificate was proving her name change from her birth certificate. Knew her Social but lost her card. Had lived at the same address for 35 years, voted every election. We are still waiting on her ID card.

    Teens without licenses, yes there are many in urban settings especially college students who live on urban campuses. 834 colleges as of last check had IDs that would not meet the criteria (no expiration date).

    Problem is, even with the temporary injunction some will stay away because in all the fuss they thought there was some new "voter ID" card they needed that they didn't have so they'll stay home....

    Blatant disenfranchisement. But, still the law. The education must go on because this injunction only buys people another year to get on the grid or lose their right to vote.
  • Oct 2 2012: "How can this push by the right to marginalize thousands of voters be accepted?"

    Most AMericans have a driver's license, which is a valid ID, so the new voter laws only hurt the fringes, people who wouldn't make their voices heard anyway. I used to think it was a lot of fuzz about nothing, until I found out that in the US state and federal departments issue their own identification cards (such as medicare cards) that don't count as valid IDs according to the new voting laws. In Europe voter ID laws are common, but there exist only three kinds of government issued IDs and they are all considered valid for voting purposes (and you need one for every dealing with city hall or the government, so everyone has one).

    "Have they presented any statistical evidence that shows fraud as a significant detriment to democratic process?"

    No, they haven't.
    • Oct 2 2012: So are you in favor of the law?
      • Oct 2 2012: If a medicare card is good enough for the federal government when it comes to providing expensive health care I don't see why it wouldn't be good enough in the voting booth. As it stands the new voter ID laws single out some photo IDs over others, while the US isn't Europe with its neatly standardized IDs that legally have to be accepted everywhere. So I think the US should either get a decent ID system, or get rid of these voter ID laws.
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      Oct 4 2012: And you haven't proved otherwise either

      What is wrong with requesting ID to prove you are not commiting fraud? Both sides agree it happens and only one side wants to do anything about it.

      So why? Common sense says if it seems that a side wants to prevent this fraud they are benefitting from it.

      I for one stand for a lawful society and enforcing the laws we have.

      As for the ID compramise and get over it. Most voter ID laws have a wide variety of IDs acceptable except a few states which go crazy. I do agree it would be nice if we had a federal ID good for all things but we don't. If you don't like your states laws get involved or move.
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      • Oct 4 2012: "What is wrong with requesting ID to prove you are not commiting fraud?"

        The issue is not identification, otherwise medicare cards would be accepted.

        "and only one side wants to do anything about it."

        If they really believe government issued medicare cards are not secure then why the hell isn't replacing those with photo IDs the top priority? We know voter fraud is relatively rare, while medicare is a $600 billion program, so again, if the security risk is that great then why is there no campaign to make all government issued IDs photo IDs that are valid in the voting booth? Besides, by European security standards American driver licenses are cheap knock-offs made by some amateur in his basement. So why not require a passport to vote? Oh wait, that would mean crushing democrat victories everywhere.
  • Oct 10 2012: Ah google. My students often say they don't know why they need to learn things in class because if they want to know anything they can just google it.

    http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/07/pennsylvania_voter_id_no_in_person_voter_fraud.php

    Google does not give you critical thinking. That link I gave you is still a questionable source. But, I have done my homework in my state. Thousands of votes checked 34 cases of voter fraud in the last ten years and NONE were in person fraud. As in not one would have been prevented by an ID check.
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    Oct 4 2012: Proposal in opposition to entire problem:

    1) Those who have IDs use them and vote

    2) Those who don't have their photo taken and/or a bio scan (hand geometry, finger print, retnia scan, etc..) and sign an affidavit that they are who they say they are.
    a) If it turns out false they have committed a federal law
    b) Undeniable proof of violation ensures cut and dry case

    Result: With facial recognition (short of real good disguises) or bio identification no duplicate votes and id ensured.

    Cost:
    Photo id - one digital camera and computer
    finger print id - none borrow from police who have to be there anyway
    bio id - 10K

    photo id $8 for few individual who don't have, which can be done at booth by DMV people overtime or employing the huge population without jobs
    • Oct 10 2012: James, in my district there are 16 polling places. That is just my district. Who would pay for all of the new equipment needed? We currently have a part time police force. (No I am not kidding) our local department delegates things like finger printing to the state department. And police are not present at polls here. As fr as I know no police "have to be there" in my state at all.

      In person fraud is not a problem, really it is not. And what I suspect will happen is that in the push to get everyone an ID the state has just issued more fraudulent ids than it ever had before. (They had no choice, the push to get IDs faster than was possible made many cut corners.) I think this law will be proven to be a huge backfire over the next few years.
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        Oct 15 2012: Hence the low cost option
        • Oct 16 2012: Clarify how in the world your option remains low cost? Besides if you make getting ID that easy you are simply creating the potential for even larger fraud for people to use in other settings. Voter fraud is almost never in person fraud.
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    Oct 4 2012: I have for years had to show some sort of a picture ID for almost everything I do. The motor vehicle department also issues state ID not only driving permits. Passports, military ID, and a host of others are acceptable.

    The influx of illegal aliens in the US has spawned even greater concerns. This is not a new idea. The parties have been preparing for this for years. It is a objective to not have it enforced this election as the administration is counting heavely on the illegal votes.

    As the judge in PA stated it is needed and will probally pass but time is necessary to make all citizens eligable.

    Every year the dead of Chicago vote using the necessary IDs so it cannot be that hard.
    • Oct 4 2012: You don't need a photo ID for many social security and veterans programs in the US. This is very different from Europe where you need a photo ID for everything. Why are the same republicans that push for voter ID laws not pushing for social security and veterans programs to issue and only accept photo IDs? Because they know the system as it is is pretty secure, but requiring photo IDs will discourage some democrats from voting.

      "Every year the dead of Chicago vote using the necessary IDs so it cannot be that hard."

      Voter fraud is actually pretty rare in the US, well except when the Supreme Court does it...
    • Oct 10 2012: Robert can you back up the "dead in Chicago voting"?

      I live in the part of PA where the majority of illegals live. They don't vote. They don't attempt to do anything that will bring official attention to them. The vast majority of them here are law abiding to the extreme (with of course the exception of rampant marijuana use.)

      Illegals would not come here if it was not working for them. And it would not work for them if businesses would stop hiring them. Stop disenfranchising those who are here legally and do go after those who hire illegals. Then they would not come.

      I have worked next to brand new citizens and those studying for their citizenship exam. I would love it if every candidate for office had to pass that exam!
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        Oct 10 2012: Since I grew up in Illinois I knew of the Daily machine ... but to satisfy your request .... I typed Voter Fraud in Chicago and the numbers at the op said 23, 600, 000 results. About the third one down specifically addresses the 10,000 dead voters that Daily used in the Kenedy election.. It has been a running joke in the state every since.

        Also the list includeds many othe states with voter fraud such as yours. Just sayin .....

        Bob.