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TEDCRED 10+

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What does happen to our comments on TED?

We all know that today hardly anyone reads more than one book to write one page essay. Most essays and thesis are copied. Today’s technology provides us more information than we ever need. I have seen a lot of students using Copy / Paste from Wikipedia and presenting it as if they spend the whole night to write it. (some of them don’t even know what’s on paper, because they haven’t even read what it is)

Say the teacher asks them to write about what they think of Today’s Education System.
Students come home and ask TED community; What do you think about Today’s Education?

Within five days the Question will be answered by maybe over 50 members and yet some of us will disagree or like and so on and on. The students take the long and most liked comment and present to teacher as if it is what s/he thinks about Today’s Education.

Our comments can be copied unknown to us. I am not taking about Copy Right here, but the way our youth uses technology and information sources. They are more and more into technology and doing everything to be in it but not reading a book. They even can exchange the notes through the Social media they are in.

I tested some students, not many could read over 120 words per minute. They are not used to read long texts, just a few characters (which are on Facebook comments and text messages) Reading a printed book going to be history, Newspapers and magazines will soon follow. Above all from paper read one can’t use Copy / Paste.

have you ever thought about the future / destiny of your comment?

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    Sep 29 2012: Hmmm..i feel very guilty.

    There are young minds here,we must observe this and try to draw their participation into the conversation,then they could truly give an honest reply when pressed for their views.
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    Sep 28 2012: Words shared online can certainly be plagiarized.

    When someone asks a question that appears to be data gathering or opinion gathering for a homework assignment, I usually direct the person to potentially useful online reference materials rather than composing my own answer.

    If a question reads, "What were the three main ideas in...?", I would not respond at all. Some questions make really clear that the teacher is working with the student on reading comprehension rather than on research skills.
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    Sep 30 2012: The modern student is at risk of drowning in information. It takes intelligence, creativity, to sort it all out, to chose what ends up in your essay.
    Great science books that I've read might have no idea of their own, but their greatness comes from what they chose to use as relevant.
    And people worried about copyright are probably afraid that their ideas are too rare, and they should be getty a penny for every one that can come up with.
    • Sep 30 2012: Hey, I totally have to agree with you. I just started one of my own conversations here on TED because I'm writing a paper on TED. I just thought it would give me more ideas to think about if I would ask the users of TED. Not because I'm to lazy to think about my own ideas but just because the possibilities of information is so enormous that it's already a great help if you can narrow it down.
      I'm just trying to get as much information as possible, just to have the possibility to sort out the best and use those in the end.
      By no means am I trying to be lazy. I'm very appreciative of all the help I can get.
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        Oct 1 2012: Christine, I tried to go to your page to see your conversation site .... you were not listed.

        Your subject interests me and I would like to see the comments. Please direct me to your conversation.

        Bob.
        • Oct 1 2012: Hey my topic is "How does TED change the way we think, and what future does it have."
  • Sep 29 2012: I like this whole conversation but we are looking at it from an older person point of view on time. When your young and trying to get your degree in what ever you need to take short cuts on the trivialities that might not even be pertinent to your end goal degree. Besides even with copy/paste you still have to read it to know what to copy/paste hehe
    • Sep 30 2012: Sir,

      Age has nothing to do here... if you are in certain age you have to worry for your country's future and its future leaders education, your child, and grandchild will be the leader of your country by using Copy / Paste and then driving the country into darkness.

      This what worries me most.

      "Besides even with copy/paste you still have to read it to know what to copy/paste hehe" - reading is different to knowing and deeply understanding what one reads (not to mention memorizing)

      when I read,"Dreams from my father" - it blown me away (not for the story) but the way it was written, it was obvious that it was written by a well read person...

      but today there are more writers than readers - whoever cycles 100 miles writes a book about his journey.
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        Oct 4 2012: One who likes to cycle might find this information appealing.

        One thing I enjoy reading is sailing stories and the log books of sailors. It is not only entertaining but if you are a sailor, like I am/was, you can learn how to handle different circumstances that always crop up while cruising in a sailing vessel.

        For most land based people, this could be considered as a waste of time.
  • Sep 29 2012: Yes I have :) If my comment can influence someone in a positive way, then I am pleased. I understand your point with 'copy & paste' because I did it myself. Not to copy n paste but only because it happened to be what I believed in too.

    There are so many ways you can say "I like chocolate because...'' but just because 10 students may feel the same way about chocolate, doesn't mean they're all just copying eachother.

    If I were in a meeting / discussion and someone made a comment, when 10 committee members agree with it would you want everyone to repeat the comment in a slightly different way knowing they are all saying the same thing, or would you accept it if they just said I Agree?

    I won't read it if it doen't interest me
    • Sep 30 2012: Carla

      Thanks for you note, I agree you said that not everyone thinks the same about chocolate, I would only add if in the classroom the majority says that they like chocolate most possible some will mirror the majority because for very simple human reason, "We don't want to be in minority" , this makes sense, doesn't it?


      "I won't read it if it doen't interest me" (who does?)

      - Neither do I read Lady Gaga's fascinating life. for one simple reason, IT DOESN'T INTEREST ME
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    Gail . 50+

    • +1
    Sep 29 2012: You cannot force someone to learn. It's just not within your power. You CAN inspire someone to learn if they are ready to.

    I would not care if my words are used. I want the world to know what I think, and I find my message far more valuable than money. It doesn't matter who speaks the words, as long as they are spoken.
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    Sep 28 2012: I like Fritzie's thinking on this, isn't a test to determine conceptual understanding? Who cares how the student acquired it just that they did? It seems to me that videos are more effective than books at teaching. Even if you are good student I think you gain a better comprehension from a well done video.
    • Sep 29 2012: Video on youtube, that's what all do.

      we have the movie THE GLADIATOR and we also have the book, THE GLADIATOR, most will go for movie, because it is colourful and last only 3 hours (or less) but the book is too heavy and it may last weeks (if not months) to know how it ends.

      I agree youtube offers some physic and chemistry explanations which may capture young minds quicker than reading a whole about about it. (I do learn things from youtube too)

      but my point was, that if they keep using Copy / Paste how they can get smarter in real life without technology.

      youngsters in bars, concerts, festivals, etc hanging more and more on their mobiles and telling their virtual friends about their whereabouts, and not trying to make real friends and make real conversation. in this way LIFE becomes more and more VIRTUAL, the quality of communication is not the same any more, the quality of behaviour goes down too. I may sound a bit old fashioned, but when it comes to a job interview, the employers don't look at their virtual behaviour, but at the real one.
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        Sep 29 2012: Fiction is different as the book is going to have more in it than a movie could contain and you will see more in your imagination than a movie can produce and books are written on more than one level that is hard to convey in a movie for instance a Steinbeck book. Again though why can't you ask questions that demand more than glib or shallow thinking? That require conceptual understanding?

        I refer to technical when I think video is a better medium, which I think it is.

        At the end of the day the question is the answer.
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        Gail . 50+

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        Sep 29 2012: I hated school, but I LOVE learning. If I were in school today, I would take the easy route to get the grade. But if I were interested in learning, I would read the book, because almost without exception, the novel is better than the movie. My experience is that higher education is not about learning. It's about qualifying for the certificate that I paid for with both money and time. That reality strips the motivation from opportunity.

        Furthermore, there is a very real problem with our educational systems today. We are learning more and more about less and less, (specialization) and without the ability to connect the dots because the broad base that should support an education has been removed, we have become functionally uneducated, and we pay a lot of money to be made that way.

        Fix the system and the symptoms will disappear.
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          Sep 29 2012: Besides Lord of the Rings, I have yet to see a movie that really exploits the medium of the film when porting over a novel to film. I've seen Zach Snyder's Watchmen and it was a pretty bad butchery of the original graphic novel Watchmen. One reason was that Zach literally tries to copy the entire graphic novel page by page into a movie. This may have worked surprisingly well for a movie like 300, but not for a ridiculously complex story like Watchmen.

          I think Watchmen is a story for the graphic novel and only for the graphic novel.
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          Sep 30 2012: Hi Ted Lover,

          Your pending issues sounds like a great conversation to dive into. Might you start a thread about education and how the dots are no longer being connected and such, and such? =)
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        Oct 4 2012: I believe that all these problems you speak of can be solved by the teachers. The students will use the methods they are taught and adjust as they grow older.

        Perhaps the educational system is expanding its scope too fast to embrace technologies associated with leaning the basic models of reading, writing and arithmetic. I still use flash cards to learn new knowledge but I use in on the computer.
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    Oct 10 2012: I have no problem with a student takes advantage of Internet for his study. As long as he understands his writing and know to defend the opinion. It is the burden of the person who asks the question instead: make sure it's creative.

    And books, papers will not die (their form might change). There's always people who can read and love reading. I think the worry is unnecessary.
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    Oct 4 2012: Before the Internet, we used Encyclopedias. We copied the text and paraphrased it to appear like we wrote the report from an educated point of view.

    Sometimes it is the only way to meet homework deadlines.

    When I read essays written by notable people, it appears they spent a lot of time digesting the material to write the essay or book. Time is crucial to digesting any knowledge, time, not only to read but time to digest.

    Most kids don't know where they will settle down in the real world. There is one important thing about paraphrasing, it teaches them to properly use the grammar of their language. Hopefully, by the time they reach college, they will have read or assimilated loads of information that will help them specialize their lives.

    If you delete your TED account, I was told that all your posts and comments are deleted also.
    • Oct 4 2012: Sir,

      Thanks for your mail and comment. I enjoy reading your insightful comments here.

      I agree you said that , and I do believe that technology is one of the greatest inventions humans could ever have. this helps us to communicate very quick and in some ways being aware what's happening on the other side of the world and also becoming smarter then ever.

      indeed, we will get used to Internet (and within a few years everything will be done through internet, so may not be needed to get out of house to go to buy a bread) just as we got used to cycling... and other transports.

      what I am trying to say it is quite simple, (I was / am not talking about Copy Rights, I am talking about INTELLIGENCE )

      Why bother to read a book if there is a Wikipedia now?

      could be said for:

      Why bother to cook is there is junk food and McDonallds every where?
      Why bother to walk if there is cars?
      Why bother to swim if there is boats? (why bother to learn to swim at first place if there is TV)

      Now

      Why bother to be intelligence if there is going to be Google Glass ?


      I am not English (nor English is my first language) here is a word game for you:

      Readers are Leaders and Leaders are Readers.

      you change only two letters L and R.

      Mandela, Obama , Gandhi (you name them) these leaders were / are simply too smart for their own country, because they were READERS.

      This what I want for next Generation, READERS who will become LEADERS!
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        Oct 4 2012: "Why bother to read a book if there is a Wikipedia now?" ~Edwin Nazarian

        Wikipedia is a book. You have to read it. I have a kindle eBook reader. It contains many books and reduces the amount of weight I have to carry if I tried to carry as many solid books.

        Reading has not gone out of style, while the medium that contains words to read has changed. While solid books may disappear, the material to read will still exist.

        1. Why bother to cook is there is junk food and McDonald every where?
        Because some people prefere more wholesome food.
        2. Why bother to walk if there is cars?
        Because some people prefer to arrive on time, especially if thier destination is 20 miles away.
        3. Why bother to swim if there is boats? (why bother to learn to swim at first place if there is TV)
        Swimming can be tiring and dangerous.
        TV can give the experience of watching a swimming race, even if you are not physically present at the race.

        As long as there are writers, there will be readers. As long as people read, they will learn to lead.

        You can't learn Karate by reading. You have to practice the moves. You can get the general idea but mastery requires practice.

        You can't become a professional baseball player by simply reading about baseball.
        Reading is only one part of being a leader. There is also experience, and exhibiting leadership qualities.
        • Oct 4 2012: Thanks sir,

          I know that Wikipedia is a book, today's electronic Encyclopaedic.
          what I was saying is that many young people copy the materials from there without even reading.
          they add up stuff, but when you read it you know that the words that have been used in that essay is not students words, (because being their teacher you already know the level of their lexicon )

          I am looking forward to get an ebook reader too, because just like you I love to read and well I move a lot so I have to carry all my books with me every time. eBook reader will save my a lot of space and time,

          I am aware of your 1.2.3. points, I didn't learn cycling / driving / swimming by reading books. There are things that you need to practise. as well as reading, to read fast and effective one needs to read 1000s of pages.
          I know I can't make any student to read if they don't wish too, but I just want an intelligent generation for out world.

          you know what's funny? We all want a better world for your children, but hardly any wants a better child for our world.

          and I want the second one.
  • Oct 1 2012: yes that makes sence, and out of repsect to these points, interest / understanding / influence / opinion / copy & paste ... I'll have to think about this one :)
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    Sep 30 2012: The primary "sin" of an educator is to teach erroneous information.

    The Internet is an exceptional tool for expanding the resources and opportunities of non-erroneous information to more people at less cost and in different formats (text, video, etc).

    But that also makes it an exceptional tool for expanding the resources and opportunities to spread erroneous information...prejudices, personal beliefs and assumptions without valid reasons, "teachings" with hidden agendas, and just plain untrue information.

    The Internet has basically given anybody who wants to play "teacher" the opportunity to do so using a mass media medium with little control as to the accuracy or validity of the information being presented.

    Students need to be taught the dangers of this. Taking information at face value without attempting to verify the legitimacy of it is not going to guarantee somebody becomes "educated".

    Do I worry about how any of my comments posted on the Internet (TED) will be used? No. If somebody wants to use them, go ahead. If they want to use them at "face value" without doing their own research to verify if the comments "make sense" or not, oh well. I might be wrong.
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    Sep 30 2012: I for one think that utilizing the vast internet is being resourceful. I think that the world is evolving and definitely the people are too. Education to me is also very important as well, but I feel as though technology is supposed to help us lessen the time we need to work, so the world can make new innovations and discover new possibilities from this extra amount of time.

    http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/en/hans_rosling_and_the_magic_washing_machine.html

    Hans Rosling makes a similar point is the tedtalk above, but slightly different.
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    Sep 29 2012: Because the access of resources are so much easier for a kid to get to now, maybe the assignment should be slightly changed to avoid that abuse. Like maybe you ask them to write the essay in class. Or maybe change the question topic assignment to "What are some problems with this school and what are some things you think can improve? And how would you make the school better?" The new topic sort of asks the same question but in a more personal, student-specific manner, where you wouldn't really be able to find the answer online, since only the student knows about his/her own school.

    I think Ken had a good answer where he addressed how we can get them to participate more, not simply getting the participants spoon fed more. I think maybe we should do our best to provide not only concrete definitive answers but also try to make our answers much more inspiring somehow.
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      Oct 4 2012: I agree. In-class essay writing highlights a students weakness in grammer, spelling and knowledge of the topic.

      It also puts a higher work load on the teacher to read, edit and make notes to help the student become a better writer. It is, however the best rote learning tool in a writing class.

      We could use computers to do the same thing, by limiting the computers function to just a word processor and making sure the grammar and spell checker is turned off. It would reduce the work load on the teacher because she/he could run a macro that would edit the paper, generate a list of spelling words and point the student to the proper areas of grammar they need help with. The teacher could then have them rewrite the paper with all the editing notes.

      I firmly believe in the system of "do it till you get it right" approach to education. This way you end up with only "A" students because they all pass the test. You also end up with those groups of students that can't make it no matter how hard they try. They could need more help to find their niche in a modern society.

      They may have no real function in a well learned society, especially if automation take over most of the mundane tasks in our lives.
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        Oct 4 2012: "In-class essay writing highlights a students weakness in grammer, spelling and knowledge of the topic."

        Hmm, yeah you're write (B-)), though I would like there to be a bigger emphasis on creative writing not only rules.

        You know, one of the things that bugs me the most is when they say "Write this essay in at least 500 words" or something like that. Students focus too much on the 500 word requirement than the actual content of the essay. It's a stupid requirement that I just usually completely ignore altogether. I'd rather write 5 sentences of pure content than 500 words of meaningless waste of space. And in most cases, the teacher, in the end just wants to read a well-written essay and nothing else.

        "We could use computers to do the same thing, by limiting the computers function to just a word processor and making sure the grammar and spell checker is turned off. It would reduce the work load on the teacher because she/he could run a macro that would edit the paper, generate a list of spelling words and point the student to the proper areas of grammar they need help with. The teacher could then have them rewrite the paper with all the editing notes."

        Yes, theoretically a machine should be able to spot the mistakes and it would save the teacher a crap ton of time on fixing grammatical errors.

        "I firmly believe in the system of "do it till you get it right" approach to education. This way you end up with only "A" students because they all pass the test. You also end up with those groups of students that can't make it no matter how hard they try. They could need more help to find their niche in a modern society."

        This is really how it's supposed to be honestly. But I've seen a 7th grader in a tutoring session before who didn't know how to tell time. Brute forcing a way to learn under a certain method of teaching is not always the way, there are smarter methods that can be much more efficient for different kinds of people.
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          Oct 4 2012: Your last sentence sums up the idea that different strokes are needed for different folks.

          500 (words) X 10 (char per word) is only 5000 characters. We sometimes have a problem getting our message across with TED's 2000 charter limit.
          And, of course, not all words are 10 characters long. 500 words is really a small essay.

          You can be creative in painting but if you don't have the proper tools, you better be very creative.

          Creative writing has applications towards persuasion, fiction, and advertising. There are many needs for creative writers, but some never make it but do become outstanding journalists.
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          Oct 4 2012: I have more often seen a stipulation that an essay for school not exceed 500 words. It is more challenging to write compactly. (Said while looking at a pile of essays).
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        Oct 4 2012: "You also end up with those groups of students that can't make it no matter how hard they try. They could need more help to find their niche in a modern society."

        So sometimes certain subjects are just not capitalizing on their strengths. Not everyone's a mathematician, and not everyone should be.

        That or, the method they're using to learn sucks and is inefficient. They need to find a better teacher or a better way to learn.
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          Oct 4 2012: Yes..... motivation and desire are also paramount requirements.
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        Oct 4 2012: @ John
        DId you watch the new tedtalk about self-learning? http://www.ted.com/talks/shimon_schocken_the_self_organizing_computer_course.html

        "500 (words) X 10 (char per word) is only 5000 characters. We sometimes have a problem getting our message across with TED's 2000 charter limit.
        And, of course, not all words are 10 characters long. 500 words is really a small essay.

        You can be creative in painting but if you don't have the proper tools, you better be very creative."

        So speaking of creativity and meeting requirements, there was another requirement we were asked to write 2 pages double-spaced and my friend wrote 4 words per line. He's 2 gud lol

        @Fritzie
        It may not be as challenging if you don't know what to write about ;)
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      Oct 6 2012: Personally, I think two hours a week on TED Questions and debates with a 1000 Character minimum would go far to improve writing and critical thinking skills in today youths. They could lose points for instigating flame arguments and using bad grammar, etc.

      Or, just set up a TED type question and debate area in the schools Intranet. The truth is: engaging others increases your knowledge and experience at using the language at a much faster rate. Instead of just you and the teacher, you need to apply yourself to society as a whole, with it's each unique individual attitudes and dispositions.

      I've seen people come into a blog talking like this: " yo, u are cool and 2 mcuh fn fer me" and end up like this in just a short time: "It's really nice to see you again. Your jokes really make me laugh LOL".

      I think the kids who spend a lot of time blogging on monitored sites have the edge in essay writing.

      They could participate in history blogs, Math blogs, Science blogs, Philosophy blogs. It could even be autonomous with the teachers also participating. Pose a Math problem, work it out, post it on the blog with the process to reach the answer.
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    Sep 29 2012: What is written is written.
    • Sep 29 2012: but not learnt ( in most cases)

      would you be happy if I present your written materials to my university and get my PhD degree without even knowing what PhD stands for?
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        Sep 29 2012: I agree with you. The internet is producing a mass of shallow thinkers, half-baked scholars, and lazy learners.
        THere is no short-cut to knowledge, learning and enlightenment. It takes hard work, dedication, focus and critical thinking.

        We might not be far from another plunge into the dark ages.
        • Sep 29 2012: Thank you, sir.
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          Oct 10 2012: I disagree. I believe a critical thinking happens when people gain mass knowledge on a subject and then attempt to do a new thing on their interest.

          The internet produces a mass of informed, knowledgable people on a variety of subjects, provide them the base knowledge. In this regards, the future is bright.
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    Sep 29 2012: i would say the students become more and more cleaver. But they have the rights to choose what to read.
    • Sep 29 2012: indeed, I agree you said that, and I am sure you know that in this way the quality of knowledge is low. the students are claver in technology, but they hardly could make 10 sentences conversation. yet I am not saying about maintaining eye contact.

      I have young friends, they can write perfect emails, but when we meet, they have no clue what to say and how to say it, and above all, they behave as it there was alone in their rooms in front of the PC, (because when one is alone they can do whatever they please)

      Please note I didn't mention about reading quality and speed, which in most case doesn't reach to 120 words per minute, it is too much for them... I think Tolstoy had to keep War and Peace as short as a text massage can be.
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        Oct 4 2012: I would be embarrassed to offer my unedited comment to anyone here. :)

        Just now, the word embarrassed is underlined in red......:)
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    Sep 28 2012: the internet certainly has changed the meaning of the word 'share'.
    • Sep 29 2012: Scott,

      in a good way or in a bad way?
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        Sep 29 2012: I think in a good as well as a little bit bad way because nothing is perfect for Example if there is no internet I may not imagine to have a conversation with a person like you who is too far from me I think for a minute you should visualize the world without internet but bad things are also there.
        • Sep 29 2012: Once upon a time there was a world without internet.

          how was it? most likely more peaceful than it is today.
          yes it offers us quick communication systems and access to unlimited information, which made some countries to wake up and demand democracy.

          thanks to this "new" and revolutionary communication system today world goes much quicker forward than ever, (I just wonder to which direction it is headed)
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        Sep 29 2012: But I really appreciate the internet because I am getting a lot of knowledge from the internet.

        A time was that when we directed the internet but now the internet is directing the world like you already described about the revolutions in different countries where no one know the meaning of word democracy ten years ago at the moment all the world give example of those countries.