- Brett Mangel
- San Diego, CA
- United States
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Can a volunteer-based-system ease our governments burden of providing social welfare?
Here's an abridged quote from Robert Kennedy to begin:
"Our gross national product ... counts air pollution and cigarette advertising, and ambulances to clear our highways of carnage... It counts napalm and the cost of a nuclear warhead, and armored cars for police who fight riots in our streets.
"Yet [it] does not allow for the health of our children, the quality of their education, or the joy of their play. It does not include the beauty of our poetry or the strength of our marriages; the intelligence of our public debate or the integrity of our public officials... it measures everything, in short, except that which makes life worthwhile."
The goal of an economy is to make sure everyone is productive and receives the goods they need. Suppose the role of money is purely to verify that those we are providing goods for have done their productive duty, proven by the $X they have to spend on your goods. Then why can't we develop an additional system of verifying that someone has been productive in their actions?
By adopting a volunteer based service that delivers basic social goods, can we verify that people are being productive and give them basic services in return? Thus helping eliminate poverty, hunger and homelessness in exchange for volunteering for the social good and easing the stress on our nearly bankrupt governments. By having volunteers run local farmers markets and community feeds, help in hospitals, or mentor children we could do a lot of good.
Our world seems to be shifting towards one of abundance; if we only need 2% of our workers to grow food, we should be able to easily feed us all if we all chip in
As doing good becomes a habit, one expected by all our neighbors, kindness would ideally become a way of life, and our children would grow up this way.
I'll end with another Rob Kennedy quote as it seems fitting:
Let us dedicate ourselves to what the Greeks wrote so many years ago: to tame the savageness of man and make gentle the life of this wor
Brett Mangel
I highly recommend it if you're interested in the topic,
http://www.ted.com/talks/rachel_botsman_the_currency_of_the_new_economy_is_trust.html
Joe Der
A problem with the present system is that a faceless check that shows up in the mail begins to feel like an entitlement. If one saw the face of the giver and saw the sacrifice made by the giver, one would be more likely to want to work their way out of their situation. They may be moved to get themselves into a position to help someone else they way they were helped.
The first hospitals in the USA were started by unpaid volunteers (nuns) who saw a need and were moved to do something about it.
If there is no seen need, are we less likely to feel moved? The answser cannot be to remove all government assistance to to let the needs be seen, so that ordinary people will be moved to pick up the slack. But I think that ultimately is the solution, as cruel as that sounds. That solution is never going to happen.
I think we have more poverty now than before there was social welfare. Before social welfare there were pockets of extreme tragic poverty. But many people pulled themselves out of that. Now it seems we have large swaths of long term multigenerational poverty. Pandora's box has been opened and I don't have any solutions.
Robin Pearce
The Government would not be so broke if it would stop engaging in A) giving themselves unlimited pay increases and benefits, B) stop engaging in conflicts lobbied for by private interests.
This does not even begin to address the fact that most people need help because those private interests above , turn around and outsource productive jobs that could be held by those in need .
Random Chance 30+
I think you are looking in the wrong direction and at the wrong people when you mention welfare and of course untold billions have disappeared in other areas of government over the years.
Politicians are all very wealthy people and many have gotten it through ill-gain, yet slide by without paying for their dishonest, cheating off the welfare of basic, average Americans.
As I recall, they are supposed to be doing public service, public duty, and not stealing from the coffers of the labor force, who work anywhere between three and six months to pay their taxes and there is no law allowing for a fraudulent iRs to tax that labor.
What happens in the end, always? The citizens work together to solve the problems created by politicians and left for us to clean up if we want or need it cleaned up. They volunteer. So, just who isn't needed at all here?
Can you guess?
Lars Mews
I do not think that there is a financial need for volunteering. And, why is there a government needed, if the core of a state is run by volunteers? Things you list is the core element of a states legitimacy, if he can't provide this or does not want to provide this, then why do you pay taxes anymore and follow the governments law?
Brett Mangel
I have heard recently about volunteers working to reclaim their cities after it has gone through bankruptcy and services like garbage, road and park maintenance were shut down.
As for the slavery concern, that is a valid concern I share but would hope to have it be an opt in system where it simply was inconvenient to not be involved, whether through financial incentives or for social reasons. Just as not having a Facebook can be inconvenient when meeting people who assume everyone has one. Thanks for the reply!
Robin Pearce
Feyisayo Anjorin 50+
But such a thing would not happen without extreme measures that would erode the values of freedom and human rights.
Freedom of choice means there are things to choose from; and there may be some of those things that are undesirable, ugly and harmful. One can choose to be lazy, one can choose to be greedy, one can decide to sustain productivity by unethical means, one can decide to be selfish, one can decide to be ruthless in the treatment of workers.
The free market system has its failings; just like any other system that may seem perfect on paper.
Volunteers services should be from willing, caring, concerned and sincere individuals. The good news is that some people are already commited to this; and more of it is desirable, and will be appreciated.
A worker deserves to be paid; and there are roles for volunteers.
But no human system will end poverty. Like murders, wars, adultery, earthquakes, greed, disease and other numerous evils in the world, poverty can only be reduced, not eliminated.
Brett Mangel
I also don't think I am convinced of your belief that we can never end poverty, although even if that were fact, that doesn't mean more can't be done. We've practically eliminated illiteracy, polio, smallpox, and slavery in recent centuries in the western world.
Why not democratize food & potable water too?
Or housing?
Or education? (which may change drastically in the somewhat near future)
Poverty is just the status of not having the basic needs required to support oneself, right? But someone in poverty in America is in much better shape than someone in poverty in a third word nation, so the very state of poverty can at least be improved.
I wonder if our idea of work can change from purely being for wealth accumulation to 90% wealth accumulation/10% good deeds. Shoot make it 5%. Or 1%, even something as small as that on a large scale would get a large amount of good done for our neighborhoods and get people away from their computer and into the community. I think by simply interacting with others with an intention to help would spur more of that as it becomes the general attitude of the community members and spur a genuine desire to care for others.
Gail . 50+
Robert Winner 50+
Yes they could, and do, a lot of good. But the attitude of the younger teachers and employees toward the older generation will make most of the volunteers limited assets.
The unions and "all about me generation" are enemies to the thought that volunteers could be assets.
Wish it was as easy as you propose. Unfortunately it is not.
Been there ... done that. Bob.
pat gilbert 100+
Brett Mangel
The free market works on an incentive based system; be productive, get paid, ideally. But it creates negative externalities and encourages accumulation of wealth over creation through productive efforts. Also its not entirely free (as in laissez fairre), we all pay a portion of our income (a proxy for our productive efforts) in taxes to go towards funding projects for the general goodwill of the community, to solve large scale problems we can't take on individually, like fight our wars, police our streets, monitor our safety, pave our roads, sweep our streets, and build our parks and schools.
People could simply give some of their productivity to the people through labor as a volunteer, and maybe pay less in the form of tax dollars or shopping costs and as long as it was done through a trustworthy system. It could possibly be more efficient than our government spending and give an opportunity for the unemployed to take part in productive efforts in exchange for basic services rather than relying upon government runs programs. Citizen run programs rather.
By eliminating or reducing the issue of government handouts from congress's responsibility, funds could be freed up, resources better allocated and perhaps the people would help to solve a lot of our problems in education, healthcare, poverty, etc.,. Possibly, it was a thought I wanted to get discuss, with people who are open to new ways of thinking about a problem.
There is always room for improvement, and I'm hoping to further explore that with this thread.
pat gilbert 100+
The area that needs improvement is the understanding of what already exists.
Fritzie Reisner 100+
At least where I live, and I assume many other places, there are always many members of the community ready to answer the call without any sort of compensation. In fact where I live there are typically many more people willing to volunteer (without compensation) than social services organizations are able to supervise!
At the level of children, service has become an academic requirement in many if not most high schools and many middle schools, which is another way it has the potential to become part of a way of life.
So I think the spirit of volunteerism is nicely alive!
Brett Mangel
I've heard a lot of discussion of mandatory service in the armed forces, and wonder what would happen there was a required amount of volunteer service at home, on a nationwide scale. My idea is that although there are a lot of people willing to volunteer, those who actually do are still in the minority. With some sort of mandate/tax breaks/private benefit or just a general shift in the attitudes of the people, can we find a way to provide all or most of the social welfare we now rely upon our tax dollars to provide? Our tax dollars are generally spent very inefficiently, by those far away from the problems.
I guess I'm looking for opposition, or discussion on the different types of platforms that could be used to make such an idea of "all for one" realistic. Kind of the Facebook of volunteering per se, where everyone might be involved
Fritzie Reisner 100+
Do I get the picture now? Kind of like a planned economy to produce and distribute what is needed without compensation to those doing the work other than receiving what they may need?
Brett Mangel
Brett Mangel
America was founded upon the ideal of a nation "By the people, for the people", however our government is "Paid for by the people," not actually by the people.
By getting people to act in their local communities for the common good, could we make more efficient use of our resources than the government spending of our taxes?
Either through a government mandate of 2hrs/month or some sort of incentive based system?
Robin Pearce
Social Capitalism does exist where I live. It is something that is taught, not mandated. I am having trouble understanding how Social Capital can co-exist with free-market Capitalism on a large scale ?
Please explain how they can co-exist together because they are very opposite ideologies, which living in a small town where it is taught works , but large scale ?
Brett Mangel
I like what you mention as it being taught, not mandated, and that is what I was envisioning. My idea would be something like corporate philanthropy, just as many places here in America give military discounts. In order to serve in the military they give a certain amount of time towards protecting our nation, if other civilians decided to help serve our neighbors, they could receive similar benefits.
As it is now, several companies, like Tom's Shoes donation program or any other companies advertising their philanthropic goals, receive a large benefit from concerned citizens. Right now I spend a lot of time going to certain websites (Facebook, Gmail, Twitter, Ted, etc.) and each one facilitates a different niche activity. WIth one focused on getting people out and about helping in the community in a wide range of , I expect it would become a daily part of one's life, getting them out in the neighborhood and simply spur good will. Which I've found to be contagious when genuine.
Large scale would just mean being able to make each person like a contributor to the community, which I would think means keeping it fairly local, while still somewhat connected nationally or internationally.
My favorite opportunity would be to help us avoid another poorly handled disaster like Hurricane Katrina. If you get people engaged in every city signing up for roles in disaster prep, with specific roles, then people would be much better prepared to help out in the case of an emergency. There would probably be some basic guidelines and roles to fill in each city, but people could also be free to sign up to help at a local food bank or mentor children or be a caregiver for someone with disabilities. It would be voluntary, but with some suggested operations and duties for each region.
Robin Pearce
It is a social capital building ideal . This left the person who was poor or had little skills the ability to also give , by caregiving, babysitting, baking you get my drift. Would you like me to try and figure out where I saw the information ?