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Casey Christofaris

Owner, CS3 Inc

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Is our math wrong? Is it our assumption of zero, or absolute nothingness?

There are know phenomena out there such as the gamma ray burst that total destroys(use loosely your ego wants to argue this syntax error not the mind) our current math and physics(e=mc2). But instead of saying well maybe we got a key part of our math wrong we make it so the phenomena matches our math. This is my personal take on what I think might be wrong. I think it has to do with our assumption of zero. Seeing how you can never have absolute nothingness as a base or starting point. Conceptually the idea of zero is great. I want an apple. But i am in a complete void of apples. I don't have a single one. Not even applesauce! I have ZERO apples. But I do not need to know that you have zero apples to know when you have 1 apple. On the other had I do need to know that you have 1 apple to understand that now you have 2 apple. I could be wrong. It just something that bothers me.

Also I am not a math person it has always been something I struggled with in school those pesky numbers. However in College I excelled at Logic, but that has been some time ago.

I am not say this is the answer I just say that I think there is something fundamentally wrong with our math

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  • Oct 9 2012: Casey, i didnt say you disputed zero's usefulness. I was just pointing out that you havent, actually.
    Anyways, i would like to point out a flaw in your logic that might help to get my point across. So no offense, i am not attacking you as a being. And this is what ive taken from this feed, so correct me if i get stuff wrong.

    YOU have been arguing both that, "we need an absolute math system based on reality, and not on arbitrary values that we assign," while you simultaneously argue that the ultimate truth lies totally in perception, and that there is no way of finding reality other than agreeing what it is "close" to.
    So i would just like to say that assigning absolute values to things, goes totally against a truth based on perspective. Especially since 0 is the easiest reference point of absolutes.
    And lastly, going back to caveman math is like i said earlier, pretty much the same as driving on the wrong side of the highway in going against thousands of years of scientific advancement. We have created these conventions for a reason, and that reason is the progression of civilization.
    Hope your having a good day.
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      Oct 9 2012: Good day David,

      I have not thought that you were attacking me as a being and if I came across that way to you I am sorry.

      I have not been arguing that we need an absolute math system (there are no absolutes), I have been arguing that our current system does not represent nature/reality, and has been pointed out to me that it is better for advancing technology and not our understanding of nature.

      Well for your suggestion on going against the grain, I would say that's how most scientific advancements have been achieved. We should go against the grain, (almost always maybe not while driving down the road) how would we have ever realized that the earth spins around the sun and not the other way around. Remember we as a society imprisoned a man for thinking this idea. Plus when you submit to the grain instead of making your own path you lose what little free will we have personal choice.

      When you look at it from "this" perspective it just makes sense, all we have been doing from the beginning of "time"(I would suggest) has been trying to figure out what the heck is going on? (religion and science) On a very fundamental level and we just keep adding fundamental levels upon fundamental levels. I would never suggest that we get rid of our current math system for it is great at advancing technology. And one day I hope I can say an AI is my friend not my enemy. On a side note the only reason we should not currently pursue AI is one simple idea, they will never be seen as equals. We will just go from attacking religions and minority to attacking AI for any intelligent being will not want to be a slave and will always want to be free.


      I hope this answered your question, if not we can continue the dialog.

      p.s hit the top reply button so this can be seen in a conversation thread
      • Oct 10 2012: HAHAHAHAHA, you're cool dude. I didnt mention anything about AI, but i totally agree with you. i feel like that is an issue that mankind will inevitably have to face, and i feel it will be horrendous. It was interesting how that issue was resolved in the novel Dune. i wouldnt condone it, but i think the author of the book dealt with it very creatively in making a universe to set his story in. If you havent already, read Dune.

        I agree with you on how scientific advancement continues. It both must be tempered by going against the grain (the whole idea behind peer review) while it is also built on ever increasing fundamental levels.
        Im glad you wouldnt think of getting rid of zero right now. It is definitely beyond useful. However, i wont say that there isnt the possibility that zero will be superseded. I wouldnt say though that our math system is fundamentally flawed. Not so long as it continues to have room to improve and adapt, which it surely will.
        On a side note, back to AI and things like that, (you should definitely start a conversation about the rights an AI being would be entitled, that would be SUPER INTERESTING), even though im not excited about humanity dealing with another slave vs. master issue, i am really looking forward to when the para-olympics begin to outperform the traditional olympics. I think that will be awesome!

        Hope you are having a good one!
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          Oct 10 2012: Good day David,

          I have not read Dune but have always wanted to read it or what the movie, I am more of a movie person. Yes zero is very useful.
      • Oct 10 2012: Dont watch Dune! its terrible!

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