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What are the best and worst laws and practices of your region/state/country
Answer as many as you'd like.
Topics:
law
Closing Statement from Jimmy Strobl
Many great thoughts in this conversation, I wish that they still had open-ended Conversations...
I had fun, learned much!
Anyway, It's "impossible" to summarize it, sorry about that.
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Showing single comment thread. View the full conversation.
pat gilbert 50+
This state allows since 1972 collective bargaining for state employees, this law was signed by Jerry Brown the then and current governor. This has resulted in huge pay increases in salary and pensions. Which has resulted in business leaving in droves and currently 3 cities have declared bankruptcy because of the pensions. California was once the 5th largest economy in the world currently it is the 9th.
Calif has 12% of the population yet receives 1/3 of the welfare in the U.S. This is in large part because Calif in effect subsidizes illegal aliens which acts like a magnet for them. Which has metastasized into the work force, by giving immigrants an advantage over non subsidized labor.
It has been voted the worst state to do business in for 8 straight years, because of taxes and regulations.
Jimmy you might want to consider being a politician in California, of course you would have to ditch that baggage you call making a difference or morality, in Calif they would say those ideas are cute.
John Smith 30+
Isn't that the fault of the state though? They're the ones too incompetent to drive a hard bargain, unlike governments in other countries where the recent crisis has prompted public sector pay freezes that last for several years, can they blame the employees for being better at negotiating?
pat gilbert 50+
Also my theory is that when the economy is strong is when it will support this kind of socialism, when there is no revenue such onerous indulgences cannot be afforded.
It also points out the fundamental problem with the tyranny of a democracy.
But the employee pensions are driving the cities to bankruptcy at which point their pensions are in jeopardy. Is that everyone Else's fault?
John Smith 30+
pat gilbert 50+
The prison problem was caused by the prison guard union and their pensions. Why are their so many prisoners you ask, I'm glad you asked.
Because a proposition was passed in the mid 90's that said if you break break certain laws 3 times you go to jail for a longer time. This has caused some prisoners to go to jail for 25 years with the 3rd strike being shoplifting.
Also most of the prisoners are for drug offenses that would not be a crime in other countries.
But mostly Calif prisons cost way more than other states because of the prison guard union.30 years ago, 10% of the general fund went to higher education and only 3% went to prisons. Today, almost 11% goes to prisons and only 7.5% goes to higher education.
The legislators have set budgets that consume all of the revenue in good times of course there is short fall now.
Since Calif cannot print money there will have to be cuts and it will be bloody.
John Smith 30+
You said something was the most important problem while neglecting a host of bigger problems, that's glossing over.
"Because a proposition was passed in the mid 90's that said if you break break certain laws 3 times you go to jail for a longer time. This has caused some prisoners to go to jail for 25 years with the 3rd strike being shoplifting.
Also most of the prisoners are for drug offenses that would not be a crime in other countries."
Yup, but it's pathetic to blame prison guard unions for this instead of private prison corporations or just the sentiments of the general population.
"30 years ago, 10% of the general fund went to higher education and only 3% went to prisons. Today, almost 11% goes to prisons and only 7.5% goes to higher education."
And this proves the problem lies with prison guard unions how exactly?
"But mostly Calif prisons cost way more than other states [...]"
Where did you come up with that? Who says California's prisons spend more per prisoner? Prisoners in such liberal states as Texas and Florida don't cost any less, neither do prisoners in Belgium and Canada.
pat gilbert 50+
The connection is a correlation.
The cost comparison is in this report:
http://www.vera.org/download?file=3542/Price%2520of%2520Prisons_updated%2520version_072512.pdf
Calif cost per prisoner is 47k per year many states are in the 20-30k range
Calif spends 7 billion a year on prisons the closest state is N.Y. at 2.7 billion
David Hamilton 50+
For every dollar in Federal Income Tax, that California pays, the Federal government spends 1 dollar and 40 cents. So we give them a dollar, and take on 40 cents of debt (I think it might be more like 60 cents of debt now)... What does the federal government spend in California? Between 70 and 80 cents...
How much do they spend in New Mexico, where "Republicans" are in charge? 2 dollars, for every dollar of tax the people pay. Alabama? 1.71 MS? 1.80... New York... Where liberals are in charge, who want all the federal spending? 80 cents.
Do you see a theme emerging here? The Federal Government is taking money out of successful liberal states, and spending it in unsuccessful "Republican" states, in order to reduce unemployment and pretend "Republican" policy is working. If California was recieving 1.40 for it's dollar in tax, and 40 cents in debt, it would still be number five. So while I agree with you, that reducing government is the solution... I don't agree that collective bargaining is at fault. The fact we keep giving our money to the federal government to subsidize states that don't take care of their people... is what's at fault.
"Republican" states spend way money on social programs, than California does, they just tax us for it, rather than their own people.
http://taxfoundation.org:81/sites/taxfoundation.org/files/docs/sr139.pdf
pat gilbert 50+
David Hamilton 50+
Over the last decade that accounts for 1.28 trillion dollars leaving California, to fund campaigns in Arkansas, Nebraska, and Alabama. I mean, for the social welfare... they "hate" so much.
pat gilbert 50+
In my best Spock voice, but captain that is illogical.
David Hamilton 50+
16 Trillion, with a T, is the federal budget, i mean debt, thx John.... Very different topic of conversation. Obviously numbers, math, and facts confuse you.
Finally, what happened in the 80's when Reagan gave California it's money back? I think something interesting with computers happened...
Then, in 1994 when Clinton was running like 10% over budget... He gave California back 98 cents... Didn't a whole bunch of people, make a whole bunch of money? Something to do with computers... I think.
John Smith 30+
No, current federal spending is 3.8 trillion, GDP is 15.1 trillion, the deficit for 2013 is expected to be 0.9 trillion and the federal debt is 16 trillion.
Now I do believe that New York unfairly benefits from having Wall Street on its soil but California doesn't have such an inherent advantage over red states so the effect David Hamilton describes is very real.
pat gilbert 50+
David
Do you have any correlation between the Fed taking more than they gave causing the decline in Cali's economy?
Do you have a reason why this is more important than the federal spending and borrowing .4 of every dollar to pay it not to mention printing money(QE 3) to pay it?
John current debt meaning the debt that is currently owed. This is not connected to GDP
David Hamilton 50+
Unfortunately, once again, "reality holds a strong liberal bias" Stephen Colbert.
John Smith 30+
Yes, and you mistakenly called it "current spending", I hope you were just confused, if you really thought federal spending was 16 trillion I can see why you'd think spending is off the charts.
"This (debt) is not connected to GDP"
Where did I say it was?
pat gilbert 50+
Also the bigger problem that the state can actually do something about is the Public Union pensions which are estimated to be $500 billion
pat gilbert 50+
The current debt is 16 trillion dollars the colloquial hockey stick graph yea it is something to worry about all right. not to mention the unfunded liabilities.
John Moonstroller 20+
doubled or higher in most instances.
pat gilbert 50+