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What if there is no ultimate beginning or end?

Before I state an explanation I would like to say I am not very knowledgeable in the on going pursuit of science and evolution, however I am always eager to learn. Recently I have been exposed to the minds of Dr. Neil Tyson, Richard Dawkins, and Carl Sagan. I am new to the community and listening to even footage from the 1970s I have gathered as many ideas as possible and I am just extremely interested on many subjects.

Now, my explanation is what if there is no beginning or end? Not in a religious matter but humans can only perceive a beginning and an end because we are born, live and die. Things on a microscopic and even of a giant level in the cosmos are created, live and die. What if the universe as a whole is just an infinite loop of events, such as the big bang and crunch? I have done some research and haven't found any suggestion on the topic, I feel its a valid enough idea to have whether it can be true or not. I am just curious on the thoughts, thanks for any input.

Topics: big bang cosmos
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  • Jon Ho

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    Sep 16 2012: AHA! You're thinking that the universe is one huge tesseract, where the big bang is essentially the big crunch!

    This is the universe http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/55/Tesseract.gif
    Except that it's not a hypercube..... its more like a wibbly wobbly, timey wimey stuff.....

    Excellent idea! I wish more humans think like you. ;)
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    Gail . 50+

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    Sep 15 2012: Did the universe have a beginning? If you accept the Big Bang Theory - yes AND no. To have a beginning, time must exist, but it doesn't exist except in its potential when all that is was singularity. As to an ultimate end? That's still being debated (and researched). But if it all still exists as an entangled mass of "being" (awareness in motion), then all times exist at the same time, and we are all one being.

    I love the books by Paul Davies (that I've read). He addresses what is happening in these new sciences in ways that any non-mathematician or non-scientist can understand. Once you begin exploring, you will find yourself going down the rabbit hole to any level that you want. What is happening in our world is astonishing to the point of life altering, to those who dare open them minds just a little bit
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      Sep 15 2012: I agree.Man defined beginning and end ..just like he defined the time dimension.
      When we are totally present in being, the time dimension ceases to exist.
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        Sep 18 2012: so true
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        Oct 4 2012: If a tree falls in the woods and no one is around does it still make a noise? Time is not defined by man but observed and quatified by us.
  • Sep 14 2012: Yes infinite loop of events is one possibility. However is is possible that we can have something that never started? This seems like outside of our current abilities to understand and reason. It is interesting to discuss nevertheless. cheers
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      Sep 15 2012: If everything had a cause and effect, then it doesn't sound possible because even the genesis of everything would have its own genesis.
      • Sep 15 2012: I think the problem here is that we will never know whether "cause", "effect", "beginning" and "end" has even meaning outside of our Universe.
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          Sep 15 2012: yeah, it wouldn't make sense if everything followed the rule of cause and effect, but does everything follow cause and effect?
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        Oct 4 2012: Cause and effect only can be followed as long as time exsists. Ideally the theorist would go to the instance before creation outside of time and would not need a cuase in the arguement. stephen hawking gave this point of view for his disbelief in God. That he was not need in the creation of the universe.

        Problem with his theory, other then offering no proof, God exsist outside of time. He is the Alpha and the Omega, the begining and end. Therefore there is a cause.
  • Sep 17 2012: Thanks guys for the input! I believe Jon Ho wrapped up exactly what I was thinking, more of a tesseract. I do believe in the big bang and possibly the crunch. I think just because we perceive things as humans to be of "life and death" is how we perceive the universe to work as well. I think it would be interesting to think that the universe cannot ever cease to exit, nor did it ever start. It only just exists, always has and always will, just an infinite loop of big bangs. Maybe even multiple universes infinitely looping, who knows? I just have never heard or anyone suggest that idea and I've always thought about it. I know it is a silly thought, but if at one point back in time you suggested the Earth was round, you would have been silly as well.
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    Sep 15 2012: Hmm,that's a hard one for me,i'm still coming to grips with stuff teenagers can grasp better.

    In any cosmology there is one fundamental constant,The ultimate state of radiation,3 degrees kelvin,it's in the steady state model and the big bang model, which came after not before,if you can come up with another then you can put it in your own without any conflict.