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I still wonder what drives us to take on this "never" ending commitment based on "lies" with the hope of living happy-ever-after fiction.

any experienced expert in this field?

what I think is this:

1. they both are sick and tired hanging on phones all day long and waiting for their date who arrive after being late al least 24 minutes or do

2. they both don't know what to wear for each date, so they keep buying tasteless and unfashionable clothes to impress their partner for a couple of hours and end up having more clothes than they could ever have.

3. they both are sick and tired finding themselves eating tasteless cheeseburgers 5 AM in the middle of the street.

Who's married here?

Any one else who wants to or tried to marry or have been married?
any opinion, thoughts?

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    Sep 14 2012: Been married 38years, not a problem, love it. I put her before me, she puts me before her. Simple, we two become one.

    • Sep 14 2012: hi Peter

      Vary happy for you

      to go back to my original question...
      I gave my opinion about the marriage... the reasons people marry which may be less serious than any one could have here.

      The point is to find out what beliefs people hold about marriage. WHY do they marry? WHAT BELIEFS DO THEY HAVE ABOUT THIS PART OF LIFE? etc

      It is mostly about our believe system.
      the reason and logic that make people to tale that giant step and commitment in our life.
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        Sep 14 2012: Hi Edwin.
        We got married in 1974. Just about everybody did then. We didn't do it to have a big party, we had a quiet wedding in a registry office. I reckon it was love; just wanting to spend the rest of our lives together & raise a family. Society has changed; people tend to ridicule this attitude nowadays; at least in the media. We are experimenting with all sorts of alternatives, but I reckon society is the loser.
        We are happy, & our grown children have the security that mum & dad will be there for them, even though they are having trouble finding mates who will give them that same commitment.
        I reckon marriage does just that, it gives long term security that's worth investing a lifetime in. Haven't seen an alternative that comes close..

        • Sep 14 2012: Peter ,

          Thanks a lot... That was a great explanation...

          It reminded me the old man I met in France when I was cycling there.

          He said: "When you find someone you can spend the rest of your life with, it will be the best thing in your life"
          I was young, it went deep in my heart. and until now I live for the best thing to happen in my life - Find someone I can spend the rest of my life with -

          as you said it is ridiculed nowadays specially by the youngsters for who having a collection of ex-es isn't a big deal.

          My parents married the same year as you did.
          Honestly I haven't had change to talk seriously about this with them.
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    Sep 16 2012: You will get old. You will get ugly... and you will become very bad at being single.

    Sex is a human need. I think it is in a human beings long term rational self interest, to attempt to choose one sexual partner for a long period of time, rather than constantly have one of your needs at risk of going unfulfilled.

    Also, there is dramatic statistical support, for the fact, that a child with two parents who "love", or at least "pretend to love" one another, are more likely to make money, graduate from school, and even experience happiness. I don't think "love" is inherently a lie however... it's value is simply overstated, and romanticized.

    You love someone, if you know almost everything about them, and you still want to sex with them. If you can argue with them all day, and still get a bit googly eyed if they look at you the right way. Why not open relationships? Children... Science isn't perfect, birth control isn't perfect, and raising another man or womans child doesn't make people happy... it makes them angry.

    I think choosing one person to tolerate for the rest of your life... can be the best investment you'll ever make... Just don't expect it to be a picnic. I'm not married though, and often women find my concept of "I want someone I can tolerate" to be a bit offensive... So maybe i'm not one to talk.
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    Sep 16 2012: Edwin, If your life is like you said in the explaination ... It sucks. No one can explain love, marriage, or all the emotions that make up a marriage. Ask a thousand people and you get a thousand different answers. Your question will get the common responses that you already kinow and expect.

    For the most part we are very selfish people and like having it our way. Marriage is not natural. You are inviting someone into your space, your thoughts, your life. You have found someone to share your experiences, hobbies, loves, hates, etc... Mariage is disruptive, imposing, full of highs and low, laughter and tears, all the best and all of the worst.

    All of these things that are your worst nightmare ... you will do willingly and be happy about it when you find that certain person that you want to become your soul mate.

    I cannot tell you what to look for, where to look, when it will happen, if it will happen, or any other of your million questions. But when it happens .... you will know.

    I wish you well on your journey with or without a soul mate. My journey has been for 50 years and everyday is new and exciting. I wish you the same.

    All the best.

    • Sep 16 2012: Hello Robert

      Thanks for giving your time commenting to my conversation.

      you are right saying if my life is like I said in the explanation ... it sucks... no argument.

      truth be told I explained that way to make it easier, less serious and a bit "funnier" as our everyday life is getting more serious as we grow up.
      I don't live with these examples, and I wouldn't marry in order to avoid those examples.

      I have never got married before, I used to live with my partner for some time, which may not be exactly the same, but the actual fact is that we were together under a roof. we had almost as much commitment as any married couples around us, expect the ones who had got children.

      I know some people who has been married before if not once but many times - I met one who had got married 4 times and was living with his going-to-be-5th-wife soon...
      Each time I come across to this kind of people I am thinking about the commitments we make, the vows, the giant steps in our life, responsibility (to make another person happy by being there) we take and we don't keep that commitment, vow etc.

      "I love you and I will always love you" doesn't always work, so to me it turn to be a big lie to say: "I will always love you" of "Yes I do" - when it is asked if we want to take this person as our loving partner for good a bad days in our life.. (not good at this, how they say it in church)
      when a couple of years later some of us end up in courtroom to share what they have. then WHY do we say all those lies ?

      I can live with someone as happy as any one who is married 100 years and still live together. The point is:
      We don't really need to get married.

      Taking the example of fauna. the animals don't marry, they do choose a partner, build a nest, have some kids, and help them to grow up till they can survive in the wildness. This may be a wrong example, but the thing is there is no fight for sharing the nest of kids between them, it seems to have a happy ending when they separate.
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    Sep 15 2012: Some people marry simply because everybody is doing it; Some people marry because they have chosen to love someone and they know the purpose of marriage.

    Marriage is first about a choice to love; then after marriage it is about the commitment to love. This requires hard work, sacrifices and persistence. Nothing good in life comes easy.

    But most people get it wrong from the foundation. They build their relationships on feelings and get their ideas of love from the movies and pop love songs; they don't know the purpose of marriage; so they usually expect their partners to be what he or she can never be. They usually think the feelings that they had in the beginning of their relationship will last them forever or at least for long (just like in the movies and love songs)

    Marriage is not for the lazy, or the selfish, or the immature (or for the miserable soul who thinks his or her partner will be the source of happiness). It requires commitment, humility, hard work and a lot of forgiveness. It is a good thing.

    That is why it does not come easy!
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    W. Ying

    • +1
    Sep 19 2012: (continued)

    " ...

    b. Wife
    The wife is biologically assigned in charge of the child bearing, child bring up, house hold, and etc.
    She transfers all the physical substantial materials from her own body into the baby’s. Also, she exhausts all her spiritual energy to bring up the baby or child ---- the DNA-carrier of both the husband and wife.
    That is where her mother-greatness and beauty come from.
    Her beauty and virtue are support-enhanced by the ceaseless intimate co-body message from the other half of the marriage ---- the husband.
    This is the right way that the husband and wife of a marriage work; and the right way that happy life of the couple comes from.
    Then, there will be no issue of gender equality at all.
    E. Caution
    Never a marriage should be misled by any kind of invalid happiness into invalid sufferings, including the most serious one ---- the divorce mentioned above.
    To keep all kinds of the invalid happiness away is easy if a person just understands and believes in the life goal is to keep our DNA alive rather than anything else.
    Strictly speaking, this way or mechanism of marriage should be legislated formally. That is, to legislate against treating spouse not as the other half of the whole bio-entity or co-body, nothing to say about divorce which is very close to crime injuring our society.

    ... "
    • Sep 19 2012: Hi W Ying

      All well said. Thanks a lot for your comment. I agree with all this legal stuff and biochemistry you are telling us here, it puts all together. I know that you have already aware of how today's youth approaches to this topic.

      I would like to add that if one wants to keep their DNA alive there are many options.

      it happened to me, personally. a few years ago I met a beautiful woman, we both had / have got same sexual interest. we both like women. it happened we got closer to each other and finally she asked if I would want to have a child with her, this came as a surprise to me. We discuss it for a while, but nothing has happened until now.

      so, here is keeping DNA alive option to me, I could if we both agreed to go on with the idea without being married, and I don't this is a crime or anything like... agreed the church wouldn't accept it. I simply couldn't think of being a father but not being called: daddy.
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    W. Ying

    • +1
    Sep 19 2012: By common sense, we have:

    " ...
    6. Marriage (Primary Symbiosis)
    Marriage is one of the most important parts of human primary symbiosis.
    A. Origin
    Marriage was originated after biological evolution progressed from asexual propagation to sexual one. It is so because the sexual propagation can cope with all kinds of difficulties much easier than the asexual one.
    B. Definition
    Biologically speaking, marriage is one whole bio-entity or co-body consisting of a couple of husband and wife.
    This couple is integrated spiritually in order to keep both their DNA alive in their offspring's body ---- a better new carrier for keeping their DNA alive than both old individuals of the husband and wife.
    That is why a marriage couple sleeps in a bed and works as close together as possible.
    Also, this is where the kiss, embrace, and etc. come from.
    C. Properties
    Once married, any person of the couple ought never to cut the whole bio-entity or co-body into two parts with great suffering, that is, to divorce.
    Divorce is caused by various kinds of invalid happiness, including extra-marital affair, invalid comparison, and etc.
    Divorce not only hurts the couple individually, but also harms their offspring and even the society they live in. Hence, it is not only personal matter but also a social event close to crime to some degree.
    D. Mechanism
    Marriage woks just as one whole spiritually inseparable biological machine made of two halves-parts.
    a. Husband
    The husband half is biologically assigned in charge of food-seeking, habitat constructing, defending, donating all kinds of co-body-safety messages ceaselessly to his wife (kissing, embracing, and so on) .
    His ability and smartness come mainly from the ceaseless intimate encouragement of the other half of the marriage ---- the wife.
    b. Wife
    (to be continued)
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    Sep 16 2012: Edwin,

    Here's another perspective about marriage using Game Theory analysis. In as much as life is about making decisions, and Game Theory deals with the decision-making process concernng rational/irrational decision-making, it might give you some insight concerning your questions. The application of Game Theory to marriage vows in the below presentation was made as an attempt to decipher the benefits/losses to each party contemplating marriage with or without vows.

    • Sep 16 2012: Rick

      Thanks, I always believed where there are two persons there is a game between them. and as every game has got norms and rules, they can be negotiable in certain point.

      it will be correct to say, where there are two people everything that lies between them can be negotiable. so the marriage is negotiable, correct?

      but how do we find the balance to make it a workable deal - marriage?
      50 / 50 - a win / win deal ? how can you do this when two people are not equal in many aspects.
      (maybe the not being equal makes a marry to a different person - opposite sex or stronger or weaker person then we are.) so I think that the 50 / 50 won't work here.

      What the experience taught me is that if it can't be 50 / 50 then it should be 90 / 10, which means each side give 90 % without expecting to requiring 10 % (the 90 % is his or her ability and not other sides ability).
      I come up with this 90 / 10 idea after we broke up. I was in search to find out where it goes wrong.
      The Game Theory was this: Give without requesting because marriage is not business, because in marriage game there is no winners and losers.

      Thank you

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        Sep 19 2012: Edwin,

        Anytime there is a "game" taking place between two or more people with "strategies", there are "winners and losers". But Game Theory principle does not look at them as PURE winners or losers, in the sense that one wins all and the other loses all. Game theory actually shows that in many cases, the rational decision to make is one that REDUCES the maximum "gain" for each player, yet can still leave them all "gaining"...just at a reduction in their gains.

        Life's decisions are like that. On a planet with a population of approximately 7 BILLION "players", it is going to be totally impossible for any ONE decision to maximize the gains for ALL the "players". That is a Utopian concept, and it is the fallacy of many suggested solutions presented about "solving all our problems" concerning Humanity. Collateral effects in many other areas caused by the solution to the one problem can cause unwanted problems in other areas, simply because most things have an intimate relational association to other areas in the world today.

        I would question your example above about the "50/50 - a win/win deal?" you described. In a long term "game" like marriage, that should be the LONG TERM goal, even with only two players. If that can be achieved, then the marriage will survive. But to expect "every day" to be a "50/50 win/win" day for each partner isn't really realistic. That's where the compromise you mention comes into play. Some days it may be more beneficial for one partner to "decide" to accept a "90/10 Lose/Win" side of the equation. That could be because they have compassion, empathy, understanding, and love for their partner when their partner is having a "rough day" for whatever reason. It should be a 2-way street though...both partners need to be able to do it, and on an equitable basis (neither should try to take advantage of the other's ability to do it). If they can do that, the Long Term marriage "game" should end up "50/50 Win/Win" for both.
        • Sep 19 2012: Hi Rick

          Thanks a lot

          I think I have to read John Nash

          Off to Amazon.com to find the Game Theory of John Nash

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        Sep 20 2012: Edwin,

        Nash expanded on Game Theory with his "Nash Equilibrium", which revolutionized many areas including economics, politics, social sciences, etc.

        For an overview of Game Theory in general (with excellent examples of many different "games" we all deal with everyday), this is a good start:


        Game theory has also expanded into Evolutionary Game Theory (EGT). This discipline focuses on how traditional Game Theory applies to Darwinian evolution, and how that relates to the everyday decisions organisms (like us) make every day.


        Save your Amazon money. There is so much free info on the Internet about Game Theory all you have to do is GOOGLE it. You'll find that John Nash just expanded Game Theory in a way nobody had considered before (got a Nobel Prize for it), and it started a revolution in how decision-making is done today (by those who know about Game Theory).

        Most politicians and corporate leaders understand it...they HAVE been educated in it. When the "general public" goes bonkers about the decisions politicians and corporate leaders make, it's because the "general public" doesn't understand Game Theory and think "Utopia" is an achievable goal. Never going to happen with 7 billion "players" playing "games" on this planet.
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          Sep 20 2012: For anyone very interested in the sort of Game Theory for which Nash won his Nobel (there is another kind of game theory also, called Combinatorial Game Theory, which is something totally different), Coursera will be offering a free eight week course in 2013.
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    Sep 19 2012: i want to be single.then i have freedom! now i am ..but when i am married.i lost it instead i should take responsibility..work for the whole family..
    • Sep 19 2012: Chen,

      This is not a news, this is traditional circle of life.

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    Sep 17 2012: Commitments turn people on. The whole point of mariage is the honey moon. Promissing love ad aeternam is courtship.
  • Comment deleted

    • Sep 16 2012: Hello Juliette

      Thanks for you comment

      I can only say that all what you said is not enough if you read the rest of the comments

      Thanks for the clip, but I didn't get the point, - it was a party in jungle . maybe a wedding party!
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    Sep 16 2012: Interesting question. I am going out on a limb here and saying that I got married to get out of my parents house. I had wanted a career and a different life. But I come from a traditionally American Hispanic first gen and at about 21 years old, I figured out that I was not going to be able to leave my father's house until I moved to my husband's house. I finished school and married the next guy that asked. We worked hard at being married and created a satisfying life.

    So I guess my answer would be the same as many others, tradition.
    • Sep 16 2012: Linda

      Thanks for your comment...

      Tradition is one thing and getting out of parent's house is another.

      I came out from very religious and traditional family at age 22, and I did things that they couldn't imagine me doing it after growing up in that family.

      so just of sake of being out of home or tradition, it is not enough to make such a commitment, there are two people's (if not more later on ) in this game... it is one of the life's serious questions.
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        Sep 16 2012: Well think what you like. It worked for me. I was married for more than 25 years before he passed. It was never happy-ever-after but we loved and laughed and argued. We worked on it every day. Some days better than others.

        You asked why people marry and I can tell you that I am not the only female in my family that married for that same exact reason. I think it was a very common reason in the very recent past.

        Why we stay together is a different question.

        Here are a few more:
        Some people are needy and "need" someone to "complete" them.
        Some people are rescuers and need to fix people by marrying them.
        Some people thrive in chaos and need someone near to create chaos for.
        Some people need to be the center of attention and require an audience.
        Some people get 'high' from falling in love. Sometimes they have to keep repeating it.
        Some people get married because it gives them financial security. There are even books out on how to do this one.
        Some people get married because their parents make them.
        Some people are going to have a baby and want to provide for the child
        Some people get married because they were intended as a child.
        Some people get married because it strengthens government (Usually a monarch)
        Some people get married to advance a career.
  • Sep 15 2012: Hi Edwin,
    Thanks for your question. although I can only approach it from my perspective.
    In our church people get married, for one thing, because they have found out they love each other. At which point they make the decision to commit to marriage. It is not decided by parents, as in certain cultures but it is seen as a personal commitment of the two involved. A wedding "shows" you love each other.

    This commitment is made more holding by several points, as others have mentioned too.
    A wedding, which is/can be very expensive.
    Everybody we invited, and end-up being there, creates an audience and 'judging crowd' :) so make the marriage work.
    Most have given presents so we do not want to spoil the gifts but commit more to each other.
    Having kids creates more responsibilities and commitments.
    Buying a place and paying for it.
    Tax incentives..

    But that is all based on externals. Internally there is a whole new world developing as a husband and wife. We believe that a good marriage lasts forever, just as we do individually.
    A husband and wive that totally love each other don't just become one team. In the next life they become one spiritual being called an angel.

    That is the tip of the wedding cake, the long story (and a whole lot more) is treated of in this book written in 1768. At that time this book could not be imported into Sweden by the author, because it was too explicit.
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    Sep 15 2012: WHY do people marry? Because it is a requirement in some cultures and societies to be considered "an acceptable person" when persuing other activities. In this regard, as has been mentioned already, it is a tradition, and we even require that two people have a "license" to do it...like driving a car. That can also make it a status symbol.

    I think it is probably a good thing that two (or more?) people contemplating having children show a "commitment" to staying together long enough to ensure the support of that child until the child is sufficiently able to "fend for themselves". In some societies, that "time" is when the child reaches the age of 18 - 21 years old. I don't think it would be rational or moral for two (or more?) people to just "get together and have children", then walk away from those children.

    We now enter the debate about what "marriage" really is...and who should be considered "married". In almost all circumstances today, it is considered one man and one woman. Well...that may be the requirement for creating the child (and even that is debatable today with new technologies in the fields of medicine and biology). But waht about raising and providing for the needs of that child after it is born? The hottest debates today revolve around that question. Can two men or two women in a "committed relationship" successfully raise a child? Do two people really need a piece of paper that says "You are married, congratulations" to be a success at raising a child?

    Why do people get married? Social (societal) pressures based on moral beliefs of others that have become traditional. It is still frowned upon for two people who may love each other and be totally commited to each other to just be "living together". And heaven forbid if they want to, and would be totally commited to, try and raise a child under those circumstances. They will be lambasted by society for trying to do it.
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    Gail .

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    Sep 15 2012: I remember reading an artile that says that humans appear to be wired for staying together for the first three years of a baby's life. Can't give you the details.

    I think that most people marry because of social pressure supported by laws. You surely don't need to love one another to be married and you don't need to be married to love one another.

    back in the 70s, marriage fell out of favor with many hippies.
  • Sep 15 2012: Marriage shows commitment, the kind of commitment you need to raise children together and you have to pronounce that commitment in front of your loved ones and your community, it forces you to snap out of the comfort zone of dating to really think critically about your future together, offering you one last chance to get out if necessary.
    • Sep 15 2012: "forces you to snap out of the comfort zone"

      This is indeed one of the purposes of making the marriage ceremony such a big deal.

      Wish it worked better than it does. Many people grow up with the idea of marriage in their head and never give a single thought to the meaning and consequences of marriage, until they are served with divorce papers. Thus, my answer, tradition.
  • Sep 14 2012: Tradition.
    • Sep 16 2012: Barry

      First I want to thank you for your time and comment,

      I hope you will agree that not always we do what our tradition tells as, of your answer is NO, then Why do we have to marry because of tradition? On Sundays we are good Catholics, on Monday we do things behind the church that are unacceptable by church. doesn't this mean that we do not do was our tradition tells us?

      Please note that I am talking in general, not separating one from another.

      I don't do what my neighbours do.

      I live with the motto that says: Go with the flow and do the opposite !

      it is like swimming against the current of water. it gives us hard time but more pleasure.
  • Sep 14 2012: around me they marry because the whole society is pushing them to get married, somehow the whole life is built around this single purpose of getting married and have children

    BTW .., it is not acceptable here to have a child without being married
    • Sep 14 2012: Wael,

      Thanks for you note

      I know that it is different in every culture and every one does its traditional way. I know there are cultural limits...

      so what you are saying is that sometimes we have to do certain things in our lives just because everyone around us do, is that correct? will that also be correct that we do not have freedom of choice to do what is right to us and not what everyone else is thinking?

      I started the question with WHY ... because it provides an answers which in many cases based on people's belief system and reason.

      WHY do I eat? because I am hungry, because I want to feed my body.

      Why do I marry?
      because I .....................................................
      - want to have free and hygienic intercourse,
      - am scared to be alone and die alone
      - want to have children

      these are examples of reasons.

      because my partner is .....................................................
      - the person I can live with.

      This is what you believe your partner is

      if the whole life is built around a single purpose, than there is no point living your live up to that.
      One must have many purposes in life, we must have choices in live...

      for one single thing? - I don't see the point!
      • Sep 14 2012: it is important to really think about such a decision , and i know for sure that a lot of people around did marry without knowing the real reason for it.
        Why is a powerful question, but at some point maybe i would ask "do you want to get married?"

        i was actually answering the question "why do people marry?" , not the question "why do people choose/want to marry?", simply because a lot of them don't choose to marry "not to mention there choice of the other half =P"

        i completely agree with you, one must have his own choices for his own reasons. following the main stream may be the easy thing to do but it is not always the right thing. in the same time i completely agree with finding ways to adapt with traditions and cultural characteristics of each society "sometimes playing around it" in order to bring evolution to this society

        as for me ... i still have no personal experience in this matter. but i guess marriage would be the normal evolution of a deep truthful supportive relationship.
        • Sep 14 2012: "but i guess marriage would be the normal evolution of a deep truthful supportive relationship"

          but you GUESS .... indeed, you guess! because you are not sure, because you do not believe and that is the reason you guess.
          in that sense I would "I guess a deep truthful supportive relationship doesn't require marriage" but here is how I am saying: "I am sure a deep truthful supportive relationship doesn't require marriage"

          first one has to be truthful to themselves, and then to think about truthful relationship.
          second truthful to ones needs and wants, belief

          I don't have experience in this field either, I am just curious to know.
          But I had experience in living with a partner (not exactly the same but close to what it is like)
      • Sep 14 2012: yes my friend ... i guess, and i will never be sure that my example would/should apply to you or any other individual. and I'm being extremely truthful when i say i guess.

        but now "i guess" i understand your question a bit more so let me ask you kindly to define exactly what you mean by the word marriage.
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    Sep 14 2012: In China almost 100% of the young, and sometimes even mature people, I asked want to get married. Though they don't say so directly, they want the conjugal licence to have sex that is acceptable to their peers, parents and other relatives.
    Marriage is still for the vast majority of people the only acceptable and durable institution to have regular, legal and hygienic sex.
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    Gail .

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    Sep 14 2012: In the US, there are many advantages to being married - from tax advantages to being able to visit a loved on in a hospital - for instance.
    • Sep 14 2012: Hi TED Lover

      Thanks for sharing with us your opinion,

      I would like to take you back to my original question to help you to focus on human's nature and their beliefs about marriage and its commitment, instead of the advantages and disadvantages.

      WHY do people marry?
      WHAT is the reason?

      They marry because ................................................................................ . (?)

      ........... because they love each other?

      they still can love each other without being married, correct?