- A wal
- Cambridge
- United Kingdom
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The arrow of time is arbitrary.
The arrow of time is created from the fact that we remember the past but not the future. We have a three and a half dimensional view of the universe, which is all that's needed to create the illusion of a moving time line. The truth is that everything is always happening now. If you think there's something special about this particular moment then why do you have that impression in every single moment of your life? It's always now.
See here for the full idea (a new and much simpler version of relativity): http://www.ted.com/conversations/13951/the_proper_theory_of_relativit.html
Closing Statement from A wal
I didn't realise this conversation was closing so soon. I think I've said everything that I wanted to so I'll use this to reply to Natasha.
There's nothing wrong with being all over the place. That's how original thinking and ideas comes about. That's better than being the opposite. This world needs more people like that. I don't think that quantum mechanics itself is pompous, just that it tends to sound it when it's written down because it's impossible to talk about in plain English. We don't have the words to describe it properly because it's so unlike anything languages have evolved to express. As a right brainer you're probably more suited to understanding it than most other people, including me. QM is definitely all over the place. (: I'm getting used to it now but I really struggled with it to start with. I like using my right brain but I was used to looking at the universe as definite. I still think it is in a way. It's just that it's constantly branching into alternate possibilities that we're not aware of. I do believe in the determinism. I did before I understood the idea of multiple realities because I think that the future is no different from the past except in our perceptions of it, but now I'm even more convinced because I think that all options are played out for every choice we make. We still get to choose in a sense. You could even argue that it's the fact that everything that can happen does is what gives us the freedom to choose.
I think kids have been gradually maturing mentally at a progressively younger age for a long time because of social attitudes changing with regards to how much kids should be told, and the internet has accelerated it. They're nowhere near as naive as they used to be. I think that's a good thing. By shielding them all we're doing is developing young adults who aren't equipped to deal with the real world.
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Krisztián Pintér 200+
natasha nikulina 50+
As for the 'reason' , i think you are pretty close to the purpose of human life here. A 7bn people question !
A wal
Krisztián Pintér 200+
because they are very different.
A wal
John Moonstroller 30+
We have space, we have matter, we have time incorporated with space to create two dimensional space time. Matter makes up the other dimension that give us the three dimensions. Most of the dimensions that quantum physics is talking about lie inside the matter, not the space time. Space time is the fabric that matter is situated within. Matter, having the force of gravity, bends space time around itself, or so says Einstien.
With our eyes, we see a ball sitting on a blanket but that's really just a two deminsional view. The three dimensions can be better pictured as layers of blankets lying on top of one another making a stack of blankets. If we cut out a square in the middle of this blanket mass, we have a three dimensional block of flat blanket space. Instead of setting the ball on the blanket pile, insert it in the middle of the pile and you get an idea of how gravity warps three dimensional space.
I figured that out all by myself. :) Want to see a black hole?:) Just kidding.
Krisztián Pintér 200+
A wal
John Moonstroller 30+
Krisztián Pintér 200+
A wal
natasha nikulina 50+
A wal
natasha nikulina 50+
I am interested :)
A wal
Krisztián Pintér 200+
A wal
natasha nikulina 50+
( A wal )
Why it should be different with time ? It's one dimension.
A wal
John Moonstroller 30+
A wal
Sorry Natasha, this three reply only set up is a total pain!
Krisztián Pintér 200+
that's weird for you, since you don't have a clue about modern physics. in many theories, there are 3+1 apparent dimensions, and many other dimensions that for some reason are not visible or measurable. in string theory, there are 10 or 26 dimensions, and the method they get rid of the "extra" is compactification.
A wal
The dimensions are all the same. They're not curled up or anything like that. I know all about string theory thank you. It has eleven dimensions since it was found that all versions of string theory were actually the same thing expressed in different ways, like flat and curved space-time. It's called M theory. We've been through this!
natasha nikulina 50+
My reply button is yours , welcome :)
A wal
This time dilation and length contraction also apply when objects are accelerated by gravity. You can view it as curvature (outwards with energy and inwards with mass) or as forces in flat space-time because it's same thing. Curvature is very simple. Forget about gravity. When you follow a curved path through two spacial dimensions you get pushed to the outside. You can follow a curved path through any two dimensions. If you want one of them to be time then pick a spacial direct and accelerate. You still feel yourself being pushed to the outside of both dimensions. You're pushed back in the spacial dimension and in time, so you're travelling through time slower than someone who isn't accelerating. It's not noticeable at low speeds because it's relative to the speed of light.
natasha nikulina 50+
Science is on the way to recognize human consciousness as a major player but still do not address to it as such. In terms of Jung ' collective consciousness/unconsciousness ' it's an invisible field. It was Gurdjieff ( if I'm not mistaken ) who said that the majority of people are asleep but some are awake. Being asleep means to feel 100% material ,mortal and experience time as a strict line directed from past to future and accept it as the only reality But collectively we are not totally asleep and far from being awake. And maybe this awaken part produce the curve and organise the surface in our collective human perception of time, so it resonates with the space surface curve and makes it one dimension. Perhaps "inward" and "upward" are higher space dimensions; and each of us has an independent, personal time scale for these dimensions.
A wal
The dimensions are basically nothing more than a grid reference system. Locally and in the flat space-time way of looking at it they're all straight lines at right angles to each other. Up/down, left/right, forwards/backwards and backwards and forwards in time. The only thing that separates time is the fact that we can only see in one direction of it. Objects follow curved paths through flat space-time in the presence of a force. You need two dimensions to follow a curved path. Acceleration is when one of the dimensions is time. You can also look at it the other way round and say that objects can only follow straight paths and a force curves the space-time that they're moving through. It's the same thing.
A wal
natasha nikulina 50+
Thanks for 'sorry' comment, but there is no need to apologize, really :)
You are right, the right hemisphere serves me better, I am not a physicist and can't create a picture out of the text made of acceleration, velocity, angular momentum...
I got interested in your Proper theory of relativity, because you said it was beautiful. I believe, that the aesthetic criteria is the most important anywhere, science included.
If you think you owe me something ( i don't think you do ) may i ask you a question ?
Is there in your special Relativity theory the possibility of giving the meaning to the moment ' now ' ?
In layman language , please :)
Thanks !
A wal
There's really no difference between acceleration and curvature. Acceleration is simply a curved path through two of the dimensions, one of which is time. That's the most important concept to grasp. When following a curved path in two spacial dimensions you're actually following a curved path in three dimensions overall because it takes constant acceleration to follow a curved path in two dimensions. The fact that one of the dimension always has to be time when following a curved path doesn't mean there's anything special about time because they're interchangeable. Time is relative to the observer. If you're not accelerating/following a curved path then you are always moving at the speed of light through time from your own perspective, but to an observer with a different relative velocity you're moving through space at a certain speed and slowed down through time so that the overall velocity of every object through space-time is always the speed of light. It's relative though so they look the same to you as you do to them.
The impression of a now is purely a consequence our our inability to see the future. It has the same meaning as a point in space. In every moment of our lives we can only remember the past and so have that same impression of it being now in every moment of our lives.
natasha nikulina 50+
That 'now' was in my question. As far as i understand, Relativity theory describes time-space as completely analyzable down to dimensionless points, but it is not the end/beginning.
Let me explain what i mean :
Time is the 'stuff' that keeps everything from happening at once . It is not observable. Space is an observable. To observe space, we need the observer and the observed. Their separation is 'space'. Being in the moment ' now' time does not exist , the distinction between 'observer' and 'observed ' shrinks to zero and they become one .
And my question is /was :
Is there in your special Relativity theory the possibility of giving the meaning to the moment ' now ' ?
Thanks for responding !
A wal
I see what you mean now. Yes, we're technically not aware of anything until we remember it, even our own thoughts. The result is that 'now' becomes omnipresent in the sense that it's always now. It always was and it always will be now. It has no literal meaning in relativity. It's just a continuous chain of events because at any point in time we remember only what has past, which creates the impression of a moving time line. It's only moving from our perspective, at the speed of light. Acceleration/curvature shortens the distance of the static dimension that we perceive as time, but in reality it's no different from a curve in space. Any non accelerating observer is always static in space from their own perspective and moving through time at the speed of light but that's just due to how we perceive the four dimensions that we're aware of and the fact that we always reorient space-time so that our perceived movement through it is always through time, until we accelerate. It's hard to describe the true nature of time when you're trapped within a mind that distinguishes space from time but I hope that helps. There's really no difference between time and space. It annoys me when physicists claim that there is. They should know better. Special relativity is screaming it at them.
natasha nikulina 50+
John Wheeler writes:
"At Planck length, the effects of quantum gravity make our notions of `before' and `after' meaningless.At Planck length, all geometric concepts break down, including connectedness, containment, locality, and especially order, and one is therefore forced into a set of assumptions prior to any kind of geometry "
Planck time is roughly 10−43 seconds, the time it would take a photon traveling at the speed of light to cross a distance equal to one Planck length It is the most real reality the human mind can penetrate into, 4% of the Universe our mind can make a sense of. As one scientist commenting on the results of LHC said : it is not science any more. What is it ? Watch this video, if you are not familiar with it already
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfeoE1arF0I&feature=related
What do you think ?
We may not think about it , but it's like : my mind is full, don't confuse me with facts :)
A wal
I'm not entirely sure I've got this right but I think it's true. The weirdest and coolest thing I've ever heard about quantum mechanics is that you can affect the past, in the sense that you can't know exactly what path a particle took but you can decide what path it took by what you do after it took it. So you can choose what branch to be on. How's your mind now? (:
natasha nikulina 50+
There is an old adage : Life is short , day is long. But it is not true any more, day is extremely short as well. In a sense, this observation belongs here , our perception of time duration is changing. Our perception of space has changed dramatically , the distance between A and B no matter how distinct those points geographically may be, in terms of time units can be measured by a second in case of Internet connection. When space shrinks , time shrinks too; and it's only about perception.
Maybe here at deep root level of our perception time and space is spacetime, it's one dimension too ?
A wal
natasha nikulina 50+
natasha nikulina 50+
My right tuned mind is OK with it :) I don't understand it, but somewhere inside there is a " Bingo ! " click .
We have a strong intuition for a free will, but we don't know how we exercise it. If you analyze carefully your choice , there are turtles all the way down, everything is predetermined. But still we choose ! Free will seems to be the function of who we are, not the function of a conscious choice. And 'who we are' is the result of our choices.
How's your mind now ? :)
You may say that I am again all over the place and it's true. Generally, QM is all about a holistic approach ; its object is the Whole, while parts are defined as a result of the analysis. D. Bohm once said that the Whole is all processes where each process is the Whole. Holographic principle in action and i love it :)
D. Bohm in the attempt to make QM intelligible introduced the notion of a ' quantum potential '. It's a kind of a force, energy ( but much more subtle than that ) with a function to form a field , which ' governs ' the particle's choice to manifest as a wave or a particle.
OK, here i feel like a blind describing the picture to a deaf :) You'd better google it , if you are interested.
We all feel a kind of archaic revival here and there is nothing wrong with it, nothing 'pompous'. Maybe soon we'll be ready " to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time " It is T.S. Eliot's famous lines from ' Little Gidding "
We shall not cease from exploration
and the end of all our exploring
will be to arrive where we started
and know the place for the first time .