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Jake Maddox

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Do you find it difficult to engage in intellectual conversations with people in general?

It happens to me all the time. My wife encourages me to have dinner with her friend and her friend's husband. "It's the opportunity to socialize and meet new interesting people!", she proclaims. And yet the same boring conversations unfold. The guy rambles on about how many yards this guy ran, and how many interceptions this guy threw, and did you see how many spiders that guy ate on Fear Factor, etc, etc. I ask something like, "Hey, did you see that they possibly discovered the Higgs Boson at the LHC?" And the guy looks at me like I'm from Mars, "The LH what?". Then my wife makes a comment like I'm a nerd then everyone laughs. I'm far from a social misfit or hobbit, I just prefer to discuss things that stimulate me intellectually. I hope I don't offend anyone for saying so, but most of the time I feel like I'm surrounded by people that are intellectually challenged, to put it kindly. And maybe that's just it, if you consider that the average intellectual quotient is around 100. They're easily entertained and amuzed to watch television shows cataloging the "real world" of college kids living in a house together, arguing over who got the most trashed the night before at the club.

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    Daniel Semenov

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    Sep 28 2012: Alcohol is the ultimate medicine for communication problems among different types of personality and different levels of intellectual development.

    *Checked on unnumbered social meetings and relationships
    *May cause health problems

    :)))

  • Amisha Modi

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    Sep 28 2012: When I arrived back from India last year, having worked in education management conversing with all sectors of society and hearing about and experiencing daily life out there, I became easily bored and frustrated upon arriving in the UK. Conversation seemed mundane, with references to the latest reality tv shows. You guys defnitely are not alone! The key is to find others interested in stimulating conversations. Quite often I have tended to continue bringing up topics that other may not usually discuss in hope that they will be interested.. if not, again they just assume I am the crazy girl interested in history and culture. The key is to keep the topics interesting - energising stories, and try to erlate them to the people you're talking to.

  • Roberto Garcia

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    Sep 27 2012: I will tell you a true story. When i was a boy a used to read a lot, i still read but because of work i do it with less intensity. When i went out to play with my friends and when someone made a question that required a scientific answer there i was with the answer. Of course my friends regarded me as some sort of strange creature that knew it all. So i had to keep my mouth shut and not sound too scientific. Otherwise i would have been stigmatized. And i know what it is like to be with a group of people who will not like to talk about LHC, or the Great Attractor or the String Theory. The common bystander thinks science is something for scientists ( I am a graphics designer). My final words "welcome to the club".

  • liz huckerby

    • +3
    Sep 24 2012: If I enter into a conversation with an open heart and a curious mind there is always something interesting to find out about others. I always say yes to every invitation and every opportunity on the basis that you only regret what you never did - and even if I only meet one interesting person it is worth the adventure - and I always met at least one interesting person.

  • Byron Syphrett

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    Sep 24 2012: Nah, you can find people to have conversations with. Just keep your eye out and remember that some folks just have nothing to talk about that interests you. By the same token, if you are talking about the Higgs Boson to a guy that has an avid interest in football why change the subject. Talk intelligently about football.
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    Henry Woeltjen 10+

    • +5
    Sep 23 2012: I use to be very judgmental in debates. I would attempt to attack people instead of communicate. I don't think debate should be seen as a "game" or "competition" rather....it is a "meshing" of information.

    We compare information for a reason. It gives us the benefit of validation and the opportunity to change perspectives when necessary. If you are talking about "meeting a certain individual" and having issues....I would suggest you take that opportunity to share your knowledge.

    However, formatting is key. An understanding of humility will get you very far in debate. This is something I still struggle with so I am definitely not trying to act like an expert....just offering advice.

    The fallacy here is that you assume your subject "Higgs Boson" is more valuable than his "sports".

    I see what you are saying. However, the subject at hand has no relevance.

    The only subject that does hold relevance is "communication" as that is what's going on.

    Attempting to define your communication by the constricts of "science" may cause problems in communicating with people.
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      Don Wesley 50+

      • +1
      Sep 24 2012: Criminal Justice,
      I have taken note of in your profile, Henry.

      I like the way your talking here.

      Don
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        Henry Woeltjen 10+

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        Sep 24 2012: Don,

        Much appreciated Don.

        Henry
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          Don Wesley 50+

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          Sep 24 2012: Thank you too, Henry.
          I too have a need to be Kind.
          Hard wired with empathy
          Don
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    Brooke England

    • +3
    Sep 23 2012: I have the very same problem here. I would say something like "Have you heard the piece on BBC about molecules traveling faster than light? That means time travel will be possible in the future" and they'd look at me with flat faces then say something like "O...Kay" and go back to mundane conversation about who did what and when. It's frustrating sometimes but I realized, recently, that I've started to accept the mundane and join in. I suppose that's why I often converse with my father and find myself on TED. The truth is, though, it's 'nerdy' to have stimulating conversations and those who do are often misfits.

    • William Hayes

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      Sep 23 2012: Where can I find the Molecules traveling faster than light on the Internet ? .. Looks Fantastic. Yeah, I have the same problem in Texas. Although, for a different reason, I've a PH.D in Physics, I can teach them why molecules travel faster than the speed of light. Why the Sky is blue. And just for grins, why the wine is red. :)
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      chen xin

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      Sep 24 2012: your problem can reflect a lot !

    • Vague Ideas

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      Sep 27 2012: This is exactly my problem! My interests are more on the philosophy side, but i find whenever you bring up an interesting new theory, sometimes controversial, people aren't even curious. that's the bit i cant stand. The lack of imagination people, and their dry satisfaction with the boring things around them.

  • Andrew Kuhn

    • +2
    Sep 23 2012: Being a gifted student and exceptionally bright individual I've had this problem since I was at a young age. I have always been able to relate myself on some level to those "intellectually challeged" for the purpose of conversing, making friends etc. However it gets to the point sometimes where I feel I'm being drained in conversation with those who know nothing outside of what they watch on TV or learn from their sub-par public school education. What I have found though is that everyone has an innate sense of curiosity despite their level of understanding, so if I can take an intellectually stimulating topic, present it in a creative way while using simple terms you can converse with anyone on a wide array of topics; ie suspended animation, sacred geometry, zero point technology or whatever interests you. It's a shame that this "real world" that is portrayed in the media underlies values of substance and ignorance, but by removing yourself from that and subsequently removing it from your thoughts, ideas and speech it's power of influence is diminished.

  • John Allyn

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    Sep 22 2012: No, I only associate with those with whom I can have an intelligent conversation and/or very good sex.

  • stan kinsman

    • +1
    Sep 22 2012: Simply put-Thinking is not encouraged in the US educational system today.
    The last time the populace was taught to think the Vietnam protests happened.A by product of the anti-war campaign was 'how did we get in this mess'? Answers were as simple back then as today.People will follow the repetitive words broadcast. Sports instead of true debates. Media,long ago,really kept an eye on those needing watching. Today topics of real concern & quite easily solved if profits were not the deciding factor.
    As has been said Find like minds,curious ones. Hope is out there.

  • John Anthony Quiroz

    • +1
    Sep 20 2012: Yes i do. You are also correct Jake. However, as easily as they are entertained and amused they can also be convinced. Convince that they too are better then the "norm." I usually take initiative and test the waters to see what types of characters are socializing with me. Once my assumption has been made I throw bait out with a well timed comment based on what the individual(s) have expressed interest in. If he is talking about yards and interceptions he has more then likely has fallen into the grasps of fantasy football. I would state something like, " Fantasy football seems to have reignited the NFL fan base by adding meaning to more then just one team/game a week and allowing not only the players to compete, but the fan base as well." Smooth comments that can be mistaken for approval of their interests often open them up. Going into the true reasons behind free programs like fantasy football might offend them. In no time, after playing pinball with the topics of their choosing, they will begin to ask me questions. This is where I stand my ground and give them an intellectual answer.
    If this method fails I jump into the appropriate suit (character), place myself in their shoes and let them hear what they want to hear.

    Worse case scenario i set my responses to auto pilot as i enjoy the food and think about my next trip into the unexplored jungles of southwest Mexico.

  • paul sovnikov

    • +1
    Sep 20 2012: I do find it difficult, Jake. Actually, it's a very fundamental problem with Americans that I've noticed. I can't seem to connect to Americans on a personal level. They seem to me highly superficial, fake nice, shallow, and completely uninteresting. Many of them that I run into start babbling away about their kids or their dogs. Topics that I would place on the rock bottom of stimulating conversation. This could have something to do with the fact that Americans simply dont read much or it might be the fact that they're really just shallow, empty consumption zombies. Before you call me anti-American though, please understand that I've lived here for almost 20 yrs and consider myself totally assimilated. However, the absence of real, human connection is something that deeply troubles me about living here.
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    Shaine Mata

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    Sep 19 2012: I didn't realize it for the longest time; but, I tend to be the one taking pictures, video, or getting people to talk about their family histories. The first two keep me busy in the absence of interesting conversation, and still makes me "cool to have around". The family histories are interesting; but, more importantly, focuses people on something better than TV. Sometimes, if the person has a bad family history, it backfires. I end up being their confessor/therapist. Then things get weird. So, in that sense, being aloof and taciturn isn't all so bad.
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      John Moonstroller 20+

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      Sep 20 2012: As a suicide counselor I used to have the same problem. As soon a people find out what you do, they start crying on your shoulder.
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    Esther Hartwig 10+

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    Sep 19 2012: I've had the same problem especially at "dinner with friends" situations or with groups of people. What happened several times was that I tried to talk about things that I find more interesting than TV show x and shopping mall y, and then got the feeling that it wasn't very much appreciated, or if I put it more precisely: I felt they didn't like me. So I learned to go with the chit-chat, be underwhelmed and have one drink too many mainly for not having anything else to do but holding on to my glass, which led to me feeling more appreciated but at the same time bored and not overly eager to join people at social gatherings.
    Then a few weeks ago I found out that a friend of mine, who until then I had met more often in groups of people than alone, has really great knowledge of and interest in many subjects that I love to talk about, like history, politics, geography and science, and it's really great to have found someone to regularly talk to about those things. You know, someone I can tell about a book I'm reading (non-fiction! science! politics! environmental issues!) without making her yawn and/or hate me.
    I think I'm lucky because it's rare to find someone with such affinity, but I guess the principle is the same: find people who share your interests, at least some of them. I ran into my person by chance but there are also common interest groups, or try Mensa. I haven't been to a meeting yet but I use a Mensa-forum and I really like it. The discussions are interesting, no trolls, no profanities and many great thoughts. Similar to TED actually, also a forum I appreciate very much.
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    Michael Decklever

    • +3
    Sep 19 2012: Having not read through all of the comments this generated, I apologize if this has been written, but I think there can be a couple of factors. One is the sound bite/headline nature of our culture right now. We are inundated with information and tend to just take the key point and move on. This can cause people to have only superficial knowledge of what is going on and possibly a level of discomfort in speaking to it.

    The other thing is I think you have to work at finding what people find interesting and intellectually challenging to them. You state specifically that you want to talk about things that stimulate YOU. And while you might find the Higgs Boson and the LHC fascinating and interesting, others may not, or simply may not have wanted to dedicate their time to that. It doesn't mean that they are intellectually challenged. I consider myself fairly intellectually astute, but couldn't carry on a conversation about this topic. However, I think I could talk fairly intelligently about things like marketing and general business, economic trends, and health care. On TED, I gravitate toward the business talks and some of the psychology and sociology presentations because I find those interesting.

    I think you have a couple of options. First, find people who have the same intellectual interests as you as was stated a few times I'm sure. There are definitely groups for it. Second, it might take a little work to find the stimulating conversations that you want, but they can be had with the group you are around (which will be good for you and your relationship). Turn it into your own personal case study. What is your theory for why they are easily entertained by what you consider trashy television? What is it about society that makes these types of shows successful? What are the underlying interests that people have? I have found that most people are deeper than trashy shows and sports if you are willing to probe a little and listen deeper.
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      John Moonstroller 20+

      • +1
      Sep 19 2012: Charles Mansion seems Kinda interesting.
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      Don Wesley 50+

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      Sep 23 2012: On the right road, and far along it, is what I read in your short story, Michael.
      Your key sentence for me is "I have found that most people are deeper than trashy shows and sports if you are willing to probe a little and listen deeper."
      That describes a friendly, helpful and great conversation.
      Sometimes we find someone hurting, who we can help. That returns a good feeling.
      Michael, I can say reading your contribution made me feel good.
      Don
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        John Moonstroller 20+

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        Sep 23 2012: Yea, I figured you caught my little joke with Pat..... you're a sneaky guy charlie brown.
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          Don Wesley 50+

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          Sep 24 2012: Hi John
          I was replying to Michael Decklever.
          We are all learning. I am smiling about your reply!
          I often forget to let my replies be filled with grace.

  • Sharon McCann 10+

    • +2
    Sep 19 2012: I've discovered that if I ask people about themselves and remind myself to be fully listening they are often more interesting than I would have originally thought. Polite small talk when we live in a climate of polarization is very difficult these days. There is nothing that could not turn into a land mine! Even the weather end sup off limits. But, people love to talk about themselves. You find out amazing interesting things when you ask.


    (And come here, we love to talk about the Higgs Boson!)
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      John Moonstroller 20+

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      Sep 19 2012: I just pull them around by the chin and say, "....are you listening to me?"
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    Mark Hurych

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    Sep 19 2012: Dude (I mean Jake), why do you think I'm here? [:-)

  • Greg Boyles

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    Sep 19 2012: Oh man can I relate to that!

    I am just not into 'small talk' - it bores me to tears.

  • Gordon Barker 10+

    • +1
    Sep 18 2012: Hang out with smarter people. Clearly, the IQ spread between you and your dinner mates is toooooo large.
    Join in some groups like the Sceptical Thinkers, or a good Astronomy group, Nature groups or the like.
    Go places where smart people congregate

    And leave your wife home.
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    neil cheney

    • +2
    Sep 18 2012: You probably just need to find some mental stimulation elsewhere. People generally are too consumed with living their mostly very ordinary lives to focus on anything other than trivia. One only has to see the high viewing figures for soap operas on TV and game shows to understand that this is probably what the population can best understand.

    I enjoy debating and discussing a range of subjects from the origins of the universe to how society functions and can also understand why people feel that trivia enables them to avoid the subjects which would otherwise prove too challenging to discuss.

  • Tammy Gentry

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    Sep 18 2012: I love great conversations. And I too found that most social exchanges were typically shallow, even with friends and family in our fast-paced, digital culture. So when I came across a set of hand-made conversation starters on glass stones, I was intrigued. Questions like "what you'd love to try", "favorite summer memory" and "person you'd most like to meet" took conversations to the next level, where we were sharing, laughing and getting to know each other. I ended up creating Penny Stones ("a penny for your thoughts...") Ice Breakers and started my own company, CMD Gifts. People have let me know that these prompts have started real conversations, ones that deepen relationships, which just makes my day! And my biggest surprise has been how school counselors and speech therapists have taken to them. Since it feels like you're playing a game, people are willing to talk about topics they wouldn't introduce themselves. You can find them on my pennystones dot com site or amazon. One suggestion for you - first find something you have in common with the other person and then introduce a topic you'd like to talk about. And remember the rule of 3: keep it to 3 sentences initially. If they're interested, they'll ask questions. If not, move on to the next topic. All the best to you!
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    John Moonstroller 20+

    • +2
    Sep 18 2012: Jake, I thought you might appreciate this TED video. The next time you see an old woman sitting down beside or across from you, knitting, you might take up an Intellectual conversation with her.

    http://www.ted.com/talks/margaret_wertheim_crochets_the_coral_reef.html

    While I was watching this video, it occurred to me that if I, being in the upper (97% tile) were one of the 3 % of the survivors of a viral or bacterial world wide onslaught, that only targeted those people who were below this IQ level, that after the die-off, I would be one of the dumbest people on the earth.

  • Karl Meyer

    • +3
    Sep 17 2012: I can certainly empathize with people who are starved for intellectual conversation. This is not to say that I think that the average person is uninteresting, however. Most people, regardless of IQ, have invested intellectually in something, which to me is the same as saying that most people have something remarkable about them. It is up to me to find out what it is. Also, if you are one of the lucky few who has intellectual gifts, and you know about something significant, then you have something to give to people, especially to those who do not have your gifts. It takes creativity and imagination to tell people about a difficult topic in a way that is interesting so that it is accessible to them. Baseball? Talk about stats. Fashion? Talk about color theory...etc. I think that being starved for intellectual conversation is more about finding like-minded people (i.e., fellowship/communion) than it is about finding an intellectual challenge for yourself.
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    Andres Aullet 10+

    • +4
    Sep 17 2012: Jake,

    Seems like you have been hanging out with the wrong crowd or at the wrong places. Wanna talk about the Large Hadron Collider? i assure, there are plenty of geeks around (i count myself as one) who would enjoy discussing the subject. Wanna talk about astrophysics? super novae, and how nuclear fusion allows life to exist? welcome to the club.

    But we are social creatures. We evolved to feel terrible when cast out of our groups, and we evolved to fear groups of outsiders. Humans don't even have the copyright on this, since these traits are shared with most great apes and with many other animals. And if media encourages a culture of admiring sports super stars and ridiculing the geeks, well, you can see why so many people will want to feel part of the "in" crowd.

    I would not be so quick to blame them, though. Yes we all should raise our bar and try to educate ourselves more broadly, and i guess that means that people like you and me should at least learn a little bit about soccer and football and basketball and whether Michael Jordan and Larry Bird ever played in the same season.

    If we want to fix this, if we think that a more cultured, specially more scientifically educated population is something desirable, we need to do something to fix the root problem. We need to reduce the amount of crap that kids see and hear from age one, we need to provide them with better information and we need to allow them to grow into critical thinkers. I would start there

    Sorry, seems like i transmuted my response into a rant

    cheers

  • John Smith 30+

    • +3
    Sep 17 2012: "Do you find it difficult to engage in intellectual conversations with people in general?"

    I think it would be very arrogant to answer this question with a yes. I know I myself will sometimes stop an emerging intellectual conversation dead in its tracks by pretending I'm not interested, usually because I just don't feel like having a long discussion when I think we both know very little about the subject, the subject is some silly ancient argument that can't be resolved logically, or I know much more about the subject and it would take too long and be too boring to explain. This could give the other person the impression that it's very difficult to engage in a discussion and that people around them aren't interested in such matters.

    Also, what qualifies as "intellectual"? It seems like such a vague and subjective term that people just throw around to try to give themselves or their arguments more authority. Anyone who calls themselves "intellectual" is suspect in my eyes, just like anyone who calls themselves an "artist" or "successful" or a "job creator". To me any conversation that doesn't contain logical fallacies can be intellectual, but some people think even that's not broad enough because they like to consider theological conversations as intellectual.

  • kev twilliger

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    Sep 17 2012: PI isnt really an infinite quanity.PI is a circular boundary in a two dimensional plane.Very limited within still more limits.

    If you were to draw a cirlce and have a 4 year old child trace their finger around the perimeter until they came to the end and got them started it does not take long before they exclaim-there is no end.

    This is the type of insght a super computer cannot master yet.It follows the instrucion to find the end of a continuos line endlessly and never reaches a conclusion.

    The vexing question I have is whether or not the PI ratio and its infinite non repeating digit quality hold significance outside of the boundary of circular two dimension plane.A commutation of its infinite ratio property outsdie of its dimensional boundaries if you will.

  • vicente marco

    • +1
    Sep 15 2012: Until people begin to let go of their belief systems, the likelihood of an intellectual conversation is remote. For example, most people fail to recognize that the foundation of a mathematical statement is only true in relation to the assumptions of “set theory,” the assumption that any collection of objects actually exists. All objects, without exception, are indeed mathematical. The reason for that lies in the multiplying/dividing nature of the optically organized universe. However, the modern cosmological understanding of the universe suggests that no objects exist, indicating that mathematics pivots on a misguided belief in materialism. The sciences usually expound on relative reality through the assumption that object-ive reality actually exists (empiricism).
    For most, truth and reality have little value in everyday life. The majority merely desire dependable descriptions of an objective world that they consider intelligible. The wisdom and reality that arise from certainty would undermine the survival of their object-based beliefs and conceptual imagery. Anyone who worships empirical evidence as truth, has no interest in an intellectual conversation.
    Few seem to realize that those considered priests of the scientific method have neither uncovered nor explained truth. That is not their job. Scientists have little interest in truth or reality, for their paychecks are derived from the pursuit of facts about objects. Science builds its theorems or working hypotheses upon previous beliefs, and therefore it often labels any discussion of absolute certainty as absurd. For example, to say that " there is no present in time” is antithetical to science’s established beliefs.
    As the Nobel Prize-winning physicist Charles Townes said, “Many people don’t realize that science basically involves assumptions and faith.”

  • Mike Fior

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    Sep 15 2012: Well, It happens to me quite often too, so don't be worried. I do not think that it depends on I.Q though. For instance, there is a friend of mine who studies aerospace engineering and he's just a genius at maths and physics, he would talk about those subjects for hours and hate you if you ever dared interrupt his flows of words, but if you start talking about something else e.g. classical music he'll start staring at you like a nitwit. The same happens if you start talking about literature. After all it has long been discovered that intelligence can have different forms. My math teacher was just awesome at solving geometric problems, but when she opened her mouth to speak about other different topics, she was able to say such trivial things that you would all become pale if I mentioned them here. Or else, people who speak five languages can be very dumb at scientific subjects, and they would rather talk about the new winner of the Big Brother rather than have a conversation about the new theory of Stephen hawking. So, According to my empirical expirience there is no relation between intelligence and the ability to "engage in intellectual conversations", because you have to take into account what kind of conversation you want to have. I think it's all about passion, we want to engage in things that we please. And not all the conversations are based on issues that we love.

    The problem starts to emerge when talking people have NO INTERESTS, no hobbies and they are as hollow and shallow as hell. But even in this case, maybe they just do not want to talk about things that they like because they are too jelous of their passions and they are afraid to be mocked by their interlocutors, and they'd prefer to appear dumb rather than share the ideas they have in their mind. although i do admit that the last hypothesis is as optimistic as rare.

    • Richard Hayman-Joyce

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      Sep 17 2012: I agree. Intellectual thought is more about taste than ability. My cat likes watching TED.

      • Mike Fior

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        Sep 18 2012: I appreciate the fact that you have such an intelligent animal :D though I did not mean that intellectual thought is more about taste than ability. The two things are quite related, since you need to develop some skills in order to be able to create or deal with intellectual thoughts.
        And you have to consider that "talking" itself might be considered a skill. Rethoric is a subject wich had been thaught for millennia in schools.
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    Don Wesley 50+

    • +1
    Sep 15 2012: To engage successfully requires a lot of learning.
    1 - Empathy
    2 - Emotions
    3 - Hidden framed thought groupings
    4 - And making the wrong decisions
    Peace and all the best to you and until soon.

  • 昀專 區

    • 0
    Sep 15 2012: Exactly, when I mention Higgs Boson, everyone is like what are you talking about ? and I said, u know CERN ?? I have now grown two horns

    I love illuminating conversation on politics, science, technology, religion, art ...not for the sake of having an argument but for learning purposes.

    I love listening to people .... I want to know their ideas, their thoughts , their feelings... Being human is such a complex thing that I want to know how they function and what makes them think the way they do..

    So Please... Help..... I am no Dork and I love a good movie and a good fiction... but when there is a need for deep discussion, please send me people who is interested and want to learn as much as I can :)
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