Marija Kovačević

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Modern day propaganda

While searching for ex-Yu propaganda posters, I couldn't help but wonder-...
Are we nowdays subject to more subtile form of propaganda?
Is it coming from corporations or governments, or can we even make a difference between the two?
Where in the World are the people more influenced by it?
Is it the "free" West, or communist countries, or maybe states with non secular governments?

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    Aug 26 2012: Humans are the atom-bomb of animals.
    It is not by our pathetic naked vulnerable bodies - no fur, no claws, no teath, no venom.
    It is by our community that our power is exponential.
    Every animal must sense its environment and act in order to survive.
    Each organism strives for sufficient advantage to persist from one moment to the next.
    Each organism will have a field of agency defined by its senses and capacities built-in to its body.
    From that field of agency, it has options of advantage to choose from for best advantage.
    A solitary animal is chained to its senses - what lies beyond them can be guessed at by personal experience - but this does not extend the field of agency very far.
    Then we have the human.
    A human can communicate its filed of agency to other humans.
    The resulting multiplication of the field of agency is enormous.
    No other organism (we know of) has such a potential.
    While ever this enormous field of agency is turned to the advantage of the community, it cannot be beaten.
    However, the field of agency is not all to the advantage of the community.
    Choices can be made to harm the community.
    Very specific choices can be made to direct the community advantage to an individual, or a group of individuals at the cost of the community.
    Communications designed to re-direct community agency to the advantage of individuals or groups of individuals is propaganda.
    The hallmark of propaganda is teh closed-system.
    The community advantage operates in the open system of the environment - where our advantage is turned to prevent predation and competition from other species and gain sufficient balance to survive.
    The most simplistic closed system is "us and them" - where "them" becomes another part of the community - not another species.
    Such involution of our advantage is the evidence of system closure.
    Money is another such closure - no one pays the environment, and all advantage is directed to the currency issuer.
    Same with "information".
    All require propaganda.
  • Aug 25 2012: Propaganda is everywhere.
    From what I noticed is the Americans are particularily skilled at with, with the most obvious being their movies and how they are always the hero, most honourable, never backing down, etc.

    In Canada (where I live) it is a bit more subtle, it is ingrained into even our beer commercials (particularily Molson Canadian) where they define what 'Canadian' is and what the Canadian experience is.
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    Aug 24 2012: Propaganda/marketing has become more refined (in terms of exploiting human psychology) and more pervasive over time. We are subjected to relentless marketing.
  • Aug 28 2012: The main effect of brainwashing is an impeded ability to reason.
    If however, one is able to grasp the truth about being lied to,
    the second main effect is a dulled ability to act on what one now knows is the truth.

    So, even though "we know we are being lied to and have been since we were born",
    we still are not taking the proper and vigorous action needed to stop what is going on.

    In my opinion it is all leaders be they military, government, educational, religious, political, and just about anyone who is in a position where they need people to believe in them for their continued paycheck rather then they believe in me or us, because clearly they don't when it comes to the environment, mental and physical health, morals or any other thing.

    I don't trust nor believe anyone who doesn't do what they say and none of those I listed ever do. In fact, they never have in my entire life.

    My bank moved the cameras from the ceiling to the counter right in front of customers where they can then scan the retinas without permission or customer knowledge.

    They have continually said that they safe-guard your personal information and virtually all important databases under their protection have been hacked into. IF by chance, your identity is stolen, you have to prove who you are instead of them paying for what they have done. They are never responsible but you are. The list could go on and on. Most Russians just want to live lives of peace, have families, go boating, kite flying, build something, play and so on. Imagine my surprise when I discovered this and how it contrasted with what I was raised with on a daily basis - they all want to kill me because I'm American. You can go from so-called trivial propaganda (there is none) to serious stuff. Let go of all, old ideas absolutely. They are, were and continue to be, lies. It is called deception, which is the active, misrepresentation of reality to anothers conscious mind.

    False is held in the conscious mind. Think about it.
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    Aug 28 2012: I agree with Fritzie, propaganda is rampant, simply because communication and entertainment are rampant. The only benefit I would give "free", western, countries, is that we know we're being told lies constantly, and occasionally someone actually reports the truth. I think one of America's great strengths used to be it's ability to be cynical, and untrusting of anything said by corporations or government... but i'm not sure it's a strength we still possess.
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    Aug 25 2012: The 'Keep Calm and Carry On' slogan is British in origin. When things were getting difficult during world war two and there was a very strong likelihood of main land invasion, posters were printed by the Government in order to keep the population from panicking. There was much government propaganda like 'dig for victory' i.e.,due to severe food rationing people were expected to turn their own gardens over to food crops. Luckily main land invasion did not happen and the posters were mainly destroyed. A few years ago some turned up on a well-known T.V. programme about antiques. The message caught the 'zeitgeist', people were really beginning to notice the economic downturn. Money that might have been invested in technology and gadgets was redirected into 'useful items for the home'. This 'keep calm and carry on' slogan has been re-worked into many forms 'keep calm and eat a cup-cake' type thing. It is a form of British humour, like one person saying don't panic in a very excited, agitated way means everyone else doesn't have to for a while. I think you are right, there are times when 'keeping calm' does lead to not so sublte erosion of individual freedoms. There is a big debate here in the U.K, at the moment about the use of surveillance and C.C.T.V. images. It is very worrying and there are many vulnerable people here who are very angry but because they do not have the power in society, they are being made to look 'negative'. I would suggest propaganda is as old as society itself, individual freedom is a very new reality indeed and may not last much longer.
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    Aug 25 2012: As usual Pat is on target. Marija, you may or may not know that you are being analyzed everyday. When you go to the grocery store and swipe your store card through the checkout it logs everything you buy under your name. You clothing store can tell when you gain weight, shoe and dress size. Your information is sold and marketing agencies put together all sorts of data to be sold again. Your phone company has a record of who you call and when.

    Given the right to see what the agency has under your name I could tell you almost everything about you that you keep personal and that which is public.

    Governments have the same capabilities to gather the data but why should they when it is already compiled.
    Corporations gather data to analyze potential markets. It is not magic that McDonalds, Wendys, sears, etc .... build in a specific area. They collected data about municipal growth and bought land years ago.

    In Europe I must handover my passport at the desk when checking into a hotel. I am on camera all over Europe. My location can be pinpointed within hours (or less).

    With the advent of computers this information can be made available almost upon demand to anyone. Type your name in the computer and it will spit out iinfo on you .... did you give this info to be spread. If I desired I could find where you live, phone number, and same for your children (if any) . Do yours, do a friend ....
    scarry isn't it.

    All the best. Bob.
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      Aug 25 2012: I know how it is. Unfortunately, I have a very common name for where I live. Turns out a certain Marija Kovačević appeared in Playboy...
      OK, now on a more serious side, yes, I am aware of all the things you mention. But on the other hand, as long as I know I'm being sold something, I can make a choice.
      I'm worried about some information I take for granted because it's presented as the ultimate truth. Just what I wrote to Pat, I don't care for McDonalds, I wouldn't eat there if they paid me to, I'm worried about someone telling me "keep calm and carry on" all the time.
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        Aug 25 2012: Does she look like you? Where can I get this playboy?
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        Aug 25 2012: As I read in another answer, "choice or the illusion of a choice". In the US politicians make promises to college kids and illegals that exceed their Constitutional powers in an effort to gain or maintain office. I call them sheeple .. in truth they are grasping for something for nothing. The cartoon Whizzard of ID said it best. "I promise you free food, free education, free medical , free housing, and jobs for everyone." the reply from the public was, "why would I want a job."

        The "keep calm and carry on", guy is bad but the problem is the ones who buy into all the dreams and promises. I try to do the math, run the model, determine what the end objective is, and determine if it is a light at the end of the tunnel or an on comming train.

        In countries around the world the politicians keep writing checks when the bank account is empty. In the US the administration as added 14 trillion to the national debit in two years and has stated that the cost next year will add another three trillion to the deficit. At what point should we hold "fisically stupid" people accountable. That he has done this is bad but that people still want him to retain office tells the real problem.

        I do not have concerns for people like you who see and question. On the world scene the Euro countries who are broke (and refuse to change) are mad at Germany who is solvant for not "giving" them money. They spend on social program without the resources to support them. If it ain't comin in .. it can't go out. If I have been getting it for free I would not understand why I should work either.

        I am sorry for this rant, but I get mad at people who not only drink the coolaide but go back for seconds. If it sounds to good to be true ... run at top speed.

        Thanks for the reply. All the best. Bob.
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    Aug 25 2012: It started with Edward Bernays, nephew of Sigmund Freud, whom the communist countries said they learned everything they knew about propaganda.

    I would ask where do you separate culture from propaganda? Reality can be defined as agreement, a culture can be defined as agreement.

    One of the main tools of advertising is emotion. You would see marketing for a markets that you are not the demographic for, football or beer advertising, as silly but one that you are the demographic for will be the ones you might be less aware of .

    A lot of it also has to with the emotional state of the individual. You would market differently to an angry demographic than a cheerful demographic.

    I would Look at what you are being subjected to and try and discern what the advertisers intention is.
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      Aug 25 2012: But I feel it goes beyond selling products.
      Tthe situation we're in is much worse than just the ads on TV. The numbing of population is much more effective than raising emotions, because if people don't care, you don't have to persuade them that bombing another country is a good thing.
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    Aug 24 2012: It is said that human beings 'evolved'.
    I believe that propaganda has also evolved. It is used by democratic nations, communist nations, religious leaders(of nations), the media and companies.
    Propaganda is like the same story translated to different languages, or the same story with different costumes for each different performance.
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      Aug 25 2012: Exactly what I was thinking. Is the story always the same, but it's coloured differently every time, so in the end we think we actually have a freedom of choice, but all we have is an illusion of choice...
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    Aug 24 2012: Propaganda nowadays is being initiated on all levels. Be it governments, corporations, and even individuals.

    The boundaries between all these sources are blurring as their business models evolve and interact with one another, thus making it much difficult to reveal the true source, with all the beneficiaries lurking around.

    There is no geographical heat mapping to where people are most influenced by propaganda. And unfortunately education level is not really a good indicator either. They need to have a new KPI, which is called cognitive reasoning. Maybe then we can assess the situation better.

    Propaganda exist both in the "free" countries as well as in "other" countries, just in different form. And I believe there isnt much of a different about the amount of people being influenced in either "worlds". Clever and successful propaganda adjust itself and its subtlety according to the subjects and context involved.
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      Aug 25 2012: I loved the remark about education not being an indicator. It is amazing how many young and well educated people I know, who just act like sheep. Is it because the new generations don't give a damn, or are the universities also becoming a subject to the same propaganda?
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        Aug 25 2012: I could not agree more. I've seen many of my well educated ivy league friends with narrow mindedness that have bewildered me.

        I will not blame the education system (as i've witnessed bigotry in all shapes and form, spanning from illiterates to PHD candidates).

        My bet is on the upbringing of that person and the environment around him. Cognitive and rational thinking could never be overrated while growing up.
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        Aug 28 2012: To be fair... often the young act like sheep, because if they don't, old people, especially ones who are more traditional, won't hire them. It is conditioned.
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    Aug 30 2012: The success of propaganda can vary significantly depending on circumstances. It can be much more effective in an environment where the target(s) of the propaganda are controlled to restrict their access to alternate views. Example: The propaganda that existed in Communist bloc countries during the Cold War (and earlier) was very effective on the population UNTIL the population had access to outside information and not just what the government told them was "true".

    In an environment where the population has access to opposing information about the propaganda content, it is only as effective as the target(s) in the population is/are willing to take the information at face-value without using alternate information sources and critical thinking to assess the validity of the propaganda being presented. Sadly, even in my own country (U.S.), too many people don't take advantage of that ability. And that applies to not only economic marketing, but also governmental politics. I am guilty of accepting the belief that if I don't buy a certain "Corporate America" produced product I will never have enjoyable sexual relations again during the rest of my life. I am just as guilty if I don't think any politician is trustful or competant just because all political candidates will generally only try to convince me the opposition is a moron while they themselves are your only savior. Critical thinking would force me to believe that can't be true, because ANY person who decided to be a politician would immediately be labeled by the opposition as a moron. If I believed that ALL people were morons, then NOBODY would be qualified to "politic"...even the people in the general public who are complaining about "all politicians" (or "all corporate leaders").
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    Aug 29 2012: How subtle is modern propaganda?
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    Aug 25 2012: Marija

    From a Croatian perspective could you give us some examples where you see this in the west or even Eastern Europe.
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      Aug 29 2012: I don't think what I hear in the media is much different from the story of the West. That actually is what I'm worried about. What we hear in the news is the same thing what USA, of french, or UK citizens hear.
      Our media don't judge US invading other countries, they call people protesting on wallstreet hippies, and we are apparently "Friends of Syria".
      And if you disagree, you must be some kind of extremist.
      I feel I'm not getting the whole picture, and I want to. Think about all the people who don't even question! Who and what do they vote for? Do they even know?
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        Aug 30 2012: Here's a link site that's very simple,it doesn't cover all the planets agencies but it might help,i found it by following a journalist who was looking for unbiased news media,he said it's a start.>
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    Gail .

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    Aug 25 2012: Your question included the word "propaganda". There may be disagreements among those in groups, but if individuals must support beliefs or conclusions with evidence, and allow them to be expanded or contracted by virtue of other evidence, and evidence rather than emotions determines the direction, then there is no need for the dishonesty that IS propaganda.

    Propaganda is a way of turning your head away from truth because it pulls at your emotional strings - usually fear.
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    Aug 24 2012: sometimes i get the feeling that propaganda these days came to life and now it just follows its own path. propaganda became meme.
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      Aug 25 2012: Don't worry, over here we're still not in the age of Jerseyshore and Kardashians and Honey Booboo, but we're getting there :/ I guess the only good consumer is the amused one!
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    Gail .

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    Aug 24 2012: In my opinion, in the states that have a currency as the medium of exchange it is the greatest. It is also most necessary to maintain the perceived value of something that has zero value. It doesn't exist in that tribe in South America that has gated off the entrance to the village so that westerns can't get close to them.
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      Aug 25 2012: Sure, it's always the "profit". But don't you think every group, no matter how small in number, has this type of dynamic, those who try to persuade, no matter for what reason?