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Is the human race progressing? And how do we measure progression? Technology, morals, art, GDP, CO2 emission?
We say that "humans are in an eternal progression cycle since the dawn of time."
But how do we measure this progression? As there are alot of factors governing progression and not just from a mere technological perspective as I have read many times before.
Did we reach a climax of progression? where probably technology progression was offset by other types of degression in arts (music theatre), environmental impact,etc.
Amanda Cherian
Now some of the technology is being aimed towards destruction, fear, and feel of superiority.
It's a critical shift, and soon, it will be too late.
Imad Atwi 10+
Man has always used technology and inventions to serve his purpose be it good or bad, but probably in their eyes, it's all good. They are all benevolent and well intention-ed in their minds. They just want to eradicate the enemy to prevent any danger to their own people, for example.
It's already too late on so many aspects. We can only mitigate some of the potential upcoming damage.
Robert Winner 50+
Technology has not impacted arts or cultures. That is by choice of the consumer. As an example: I do not understand rap music but I have friends who love it. I went to the art museum and saw a painting on the wall of a giant red dot on a white canvas that was considered valuable or other "modern" art that I need explained to me ( I got a different answer every time ). However, there is a market and therefore it exists.
There are people who see the opportunity to exploit everything. For years we have seen religious hucksters, political activists, and millions of "causes" ... send / donate and we will win the war on (whatever ). That has led to a loss of faith in the "good" of man. Thousands do not vote because they say the system is so corrupt that it no longer makes a difference. Some are millionairs when they go to congress and some become millionairs after they go to congress.
In summary, We can all name the celeb who was in the latest porn but do not know the nobel prize winner. The media and marketing are more influential than parential guidance. Until that changes we will continue the path to the second dark ages. Ethics .. moral, work, a value system .. are the path out. The ball is in our court what will you do to lead the charge.
All the best. Bob.
Imad Atwi 10+
How can we create the demand for good ethics, as we have clear abundance of the supply innate? We need to sell it to them, in any way possible. We can either do it by the carrot, or the stick!
Robert Winner 50+
A newpaper once tried to publish "good and noteworth acts of kindness" the public did not support it.
When I went to school there was a award for sportsmanship. That no longer exists. The win at all costs has deemed the "good sport" as a loser.
All of my students can name the football quarterback ... only a few can recall the valvictorian.
There is not a market, demand, or a precieved need for ethics. President Clinton had many affairs. He was re-elected because the general public did not see a need for a ethical man to be the leader of the United States. All of the Kennedy's while in office had ethical issues. They are held as icons to be admired and as role models. Perform sex acts and get it posted on youtube is a avenue to success. Had you ever heard of Paris Hilton prior to that?
How about Monica she is famous because of the lack of ethics of Clinton and herself.
We, by media acceptance, have taught our kids that high values are not necessary. So how would you go about either by carrot or stick convincing them that ethic and morals are necessary.
Bob.
Amanda Cherian
Robert Winner 50+
The problem is the media, and general acceptance of those who have low standads. That wide acceptance makes it hard for the young mind to not be influenced. When my kids come home and say that their friends steal beer, drugs, use bad language, and ask them to join them,, it presents a problem for us as parents to point out the real issues here. Strong families can over come the social pressures our kids face everyday ... but it is not easy.
I did not say it cannot be done. What I mean is that it takes a lot of effort and being on top of the situation to achieve the desired results. But it is worth it.
Thanks for the reply. Bob.
Imad Atwi 10+
It is probably the single most effective game changer in world ethics for generations to come.
Angela Preston
Angela Preston
If we were progressing on both fronts, there'll be world peace. is that even sustainable? hmmm.
Imad Atwi 10+
World peace is sustainable. It's consumerism and savage capitalism that is not.
Colleen Steen 500+
I believe world peace is attainable and sustainable, and to do that, we need balance. Consumerism and savage capitalism may NOT be sustainable, and maybe that's a good thing. Perhaps we (humans) will learn something, which may move us toward balance?
Imad Atwi 10+
We've been trying to learn since probably the renaissance, or maybe alot earlier, but history is repeating itself, and we're growing greedier by the second. We're far from being there. If consumerism and all that is not sustainable, that might not necessarily mean then end of them, rather than the end of us.
Aristotle once said, if you want to judge people, dont judge them at the time of peace, judge them at the time of war, when there is no laws or regulations governing their behavior. Unfortunately, I've witnessed this pre, during, and post war behavior, and the guy is extremely accurate.
I wont hold my breath for that balance.
Colleen Steen 500+
I'm not holding my breath because I need to breath to be an enthusiastic participant in the quest for balance:>)
We've had the information to learn for a very long time....have we been paying attention? Perhaps now is the time. I truly believe we are evolving to a point where it is time to pay attention to each other and our interconnectedness, and the communication systems we now have, like TED, facilitate that connection. If we are not part of the solution, we are part of the problem. I like to think of myself as part of the solution:>)
Are we NOWHERE? Or NOW HERE? THERE, is NOW HERE.
I don't judge people, but rather do my best to contribute to the whole:>)
Imad Atwi 10+
Though sometimes people need to be judged or poked for them to have a bit more introspect or re-evaluation on what they're doing.
We need to contribute to the whole. Inward and outward. : )
Colleen Steen 500+
It's not about what "they" are doing....it's often about what "we" are doing...."BE" what we want to "SEE" in our world.....what we focus on expands:>)
Imad Atwi 10+
Sort of what "The Secret" was aiming at in terms of telepathic telekinesis power.
Colleen Steen 500+
What goes around, comes around....we are all interconnected, and when more people realize that, our world may change quite a bit....as I believe it is doing as we speak:>)
Imad Atwi 10+
Karma is overrated in education and upbringing.
Colleen Steen 500+
Imad Atwi 10+
But for some very weird reason, i find interesting.
Colleen Steen 500+
I believe in reincarnation...I believe that the human life experience is about learning...for me it's an adventure....an exploration....I believe in the cycle of cause and effect...all very interesting I agree:>)
I experienced much of this with a NDE years ago, so perhaps it IS indeed the "mambo jambo" that I do not embrace. Perhaps the mambo jambo seems to make it more complicated, when I feel it is very simple and natural. It is as you say in your indroduction...."...humans are in an eternal progression cycle since the dawn of time":>)
We are in a recycle cycle... the body is recycled back into the earth....while the energy that powers the body moves to another form.
I sincerely believe the human race could progress faster if folks did not get so attached to their human life identity. What do you think?
Imad Atwi 10+
But then again, that's my non-awakened two cents.
Colleen Steen 500+
As you wrote in a previous comment..."We've been trying to learn since probably the renaissance, or maybe alot earlier...".
People are searching all the time for peace, contentment, "awakening" (BTW, I believe you are awake....and you like to "poke" the audience)....which is a good thing:>)
We've had information about developing and progressing from teachers, gurus, philosophers, psychologists, sages, prophets, etc., for a very long time. People are seeking that which they have in themselves. The challenge, is that people seem to be distracted by material "stuff", which often prevents awareness/awakening. That's what I mean by being overly attached to the human form, and the materialistic behavior.
I think/feel it is sometimes more difficult to maximize positive energy and impact to optimize progression when distracted by the pursuit of material possessions.
On the other side (miss positive speaks), I believe it is time for a change in our worldview...time to pay more attention.....time to recognize each other and the fact that we share this earth, which sustains us:>)
Imad Atwi 10+
"On the other side....." Totally agree. Not going to argue there.
PS: I am awake, last time i typed while sleeping ended up in disaster. : )
Colleen Steen 500+
I think/feel we are on the same page with this? I also advocate responsibility, accountability, and am not against material possessions, nor do I blame progress (or lack of) on that. You may notice I used the words "overly attached"? I probably have more than my share of material possessions, when considreing the big picture, and I appreciate ALL of them very much. Hopefully, I am not attached to the material possessions as an identity.
I totally agree with you....it is what we do with them. Our intent, is an important piece in every part of the human existance....don't you think? We've mentioned BALANCE several times in our conversations.....are we preaching to the choir??? LOL:>) It's ok....it cannot be said too many times:>)
Barry Palmer 50+
IMO, there is only one area where human progress is important, and that is ethical behavior.
I very much want to believe that we are making progress in this area, but I have no good reasons to believe it. For every example of progress there is an equally compelling example of regress.
In another conversation I pointed out that all through history serious writers bemoaned the worsening of public manners, respect for elders, and other ethical behaviors. I remarked, tongue in cheek, that perhaps it was true, that ethical behavior reached its peak before the invention of writing and has been going down hill ever since. Since then I have been wondering if this could be true.
Imad Atwi 10+
While I agree that technological progression is an imperative for human kind, it has be be paralleled by other equally important progressions (I will not in this case prioritize one over the other, but if you ask me which one i'd rather have without the other, that would be ethics and morals hands down), which is unfortunately not the case today.
That would be interesting to see whether ethical behavior has indeed reached a peak, and when was it. Although I think it would be a bit hard to digest that before that invention of writing, we as humans were pretty much governed by our instinct, the ID, rather than the ego or superego (as dubbed in psychology). But you might not be that far off. : )
Amanda Cherian
Debra Smith 200+
David Hamilton 50+
Popular art has often become cruel, desperate, and miserable. Television is populated by reality shows about people you wouldn't even want to spend time with... The news, is about the people on the reality TV shows... but even, among all this there is great talent, and power emerging. Access to education is breaking down cultural, and language barriers, so that we can engage in an honest discourse.
The internet is opening our minds and our eyes, but still civillization has much work to do, and our technology can only go so far.
Debra Smith 200+
Imad Atwi 10+
Gerald O'brian 50+
" our progress as a human civillization, has fallen behind our technological progress "
Explain this to me, please. I don't see why technological progress should be at the expense of what you call human progress.
Also, I don't think we've made any human progress until very recently (when we also began to make serious technological progress, coincidently).
" and our technology can only go so far. "
I don't get that one. I don't see how it makes sense.
Cheers
David Hamilton 50+
Theocracy, and Monarchy, and Dictatorship, have all been proven inefficient, and destined to fail, for centuries, and for decades, most poor people have had access to that information... Yet monarchy, dictatorship, and theocracy, still exist.
Americans have steady access to food they don't have to farm, subsidized by the government, and refined into corn syrup and preservatives... So we're the fattest, laziest, ugliest generation of Americans that have ever lived.
Ecigs are awesome for quitting smoking, but they're almost as expensive as smoking at first... If health insurance covered that, we'd save billions in lung cancer, they've been out for a decade, no institutional support.
Jimmy Carter put solar panels on the roof of The White House, to lead by example in encouraging more homes to use solar energy. Reagan took them down. 10 years later, solar concentration technology, was solid... There is, to date, no institutional support for solar concentration becoming a new portable energy infrastructure... because governments are afraid that stupid people will burn themselves, and their houses.
Africa, Australia, and the western US would be the big benefactors of this.
Electric motorcycles go over 100 miles per hour and over 100 miles a charge, with a 200k mile warantee for about 12 thousand US dollars, but people in the US still commute in their Escalades, even when alone.
Technology is trying to save us, but our culture is still in the dark ages, in my humble opinion... it's not technologies fault though.
Gerald O'brian 50+
Wow, that was very well argued. Thanks, David.
Debra Smith 200+
Imad Atwi 10+
I'll take a small example of movies, paintings, and music.
Movies Front: Why dont we see much of the likes of Casablanca, City of God, Ran, The deer Hunter, it's now mostly blockbuster sci fi, effects, with no real or well thought of plot, relatively.
Art wise, Picasso, Da Vince, Rembrandt, Monet, Manet, Gogh....We just dont see these any more...
Music front, besides the geniouses of Mozart, Bach, and so many others, I just came across this
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=369187519817901&set=a.148116611924994.33707.136531246416864&type=1&theater
Debra Smith 200+
I am not sure how we judge art and music. Things I loved in the 70s (loved Harry Chapin then and he died so I did not get to see his evolution) but I know that I love things that share common elements in music today like Tracy Chapman and Melua and Ayo. In a bizzare twist I also adore some of the poetry of Emminem. That man is a genius poet to me and I think he and Leonard Cohen could make quite a team! So what am I saying? I am saying that I am confused by my own tastes.
I just read a book about art called "The art of Cruelty" which addresses the concept of shock in art and mostly exposes it as a fraudulent movement but I saw a movie within the last couple of years called "Incendies" French Canadian with subtitles - that was among the most profound pieces of art or of literature of my whole life.
For the reasons above, I seek out film festivals to see great movies and I am seldom disappointed and I realize those works we are seeking are out there= they just do not make it into the mainstream very often.
Imad Atwi 10+
I hear you, art is subjective, and coincidentally, I have watched Incendies - a great movie as well, as I am from the region and I have seen at least similar circumstances and plots in real life.
I am not denying the existence of such art grandeur or modern art, but I'm just wondering why great peaces of art in all forms always seem to fall behind, and probably now even more than ever, despite the technological advances of the world being a small village and so on and so forth. Guess as David puts it, humans have fallen behind technological advancements.
Debra Smith 200+
I have to remind you that most of the artists that we consider great were not considered so in their own life times. Many died impoverished with visions of truth stored in their works that it took the world a long time to catch up with. When we find them we need to treasure them in our own hearts even if no one else sees it the way we do. This is independence of thought and vision. It is a burden and a joy.
Imad Atwi 10+
Hmm or buying our own TV station anyone? solely for the great and undiscovered of our time.
Angela Preston
People need extreme situations, need stories, need drama, alas.
Imad Atwi 10+
Angela Preston
Debra Smith 200+
I remind you that we are not discussing all posthoumously great artists - just the ones that Imad and I agree are great--------hahahahh
love Deb
Imad Atwi 10+
I have to agree with Debra. More convenient. hahaha
What do you think of Galileo, Edgar Allen Poe, and Gogh (unlike Picasso). They did not have much acclaim during their lives. Poor Galileo was on house arrest till his death. hmm ok I'll close the lid on this one. With my short attention span I can probably digress to go on and talk about Homer Simpson's idea of making money by selling one of his livers.
Cheers,