- Amr Salah
- Alexandria, Egypt
- Egypt
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Aren't Christianity, Judaism and Islam basically the same? How much archaeological evidence is there of similar teachings in the past?
Among countless arguments that keep recurring almost on a daily basis, specially in the middle-east, many are centered around the constant conflict between the Abrahamic religions. I found it strange that whole centuries were not enough for humans to reach some conclusions, perhaps because we are all, to some extent, biased. People simply ignored, and in some cases resented, what they didn't konw. The media played a significant role in further increasing the gap using inflaming language, fabricated and biased news while ignoring or hiding historic and concrete facts altogether.
Apparently, Jews denied Christians and Muslims, Christians denied Muslims and Jews, and Muslims denied Christians and Jews. Nowadays, many people are conditioned to take sides without even thinking. One puzzling point is that some people turned other religions to a forbidden knowledge instead of encouraging people to know. Thus, they seem to prefer keeping people ignorant rather than letting them form an opinion on their own.
I don't know if someone has contributed to any sort of worldwide work that deals with the basic similarities between the Abrahamic religions, specially the beliefs. Thus, I invite everyone who is willing to share what they know about: the similarities between the Abrahamic religions, the archaeological evidence regarding them and what you think whether any human, organization or government nowadays has any right to turn any of the Abrahamic religions to a forbidden knowledge.
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Roy Bourque 20+
The Old Testament writing goes back to the 13th century BC. It has its roots in Egyptian and Mesopotamian myth. (for more information, see John Romer, "Testament"). I see the first five books of the OT as a myth describing a spiritual fall and the events that led up to it. It goes back only to the period of recorded history and stops there.
The New Testament is about the messiah Jesus Christ. A messiah was foretold in the OT, but the OT itself says he would be rejected. As such, many of the Jews do not believe that Jesus was the messiah. Christianity follows the NT, but has its roots in the OT as well.
The Koran came 600 years later. It is the dictations of a single man, Mohammed. His dictations did not come prior to Christian missionaries coming to the Arab nations and trying to convert the Arabs. Their religion was much different prior to the Koran. It was Zorastrianism. You will find many of the stories in the OT and NT reiterated in the Koran.
The events of the Judeo-Christian tradition follow the Mayan calendar National cycle like they belong there. Why this coincidence exists is intriguing, since the National cycle was adopted around the same time that Jesus was born, but these two cultures had no contact with each other.
see the following link; http://www.mayanmajix.com/art024p.pdf
The problem I have with the Koran is that It denies Jesus as the Messiah. It was written by a militant leader, which is opposite to what Jesus represents.
Jesus said the Kingdom of God is within you. He encouraged us to seek it out. It was the Jewish leadership that had him put to death (according to the NT). Throughout history, people have tried to create a monopoly on religion to act on our behalf. It is up to you to find your own path that leads to "Christ".
Amr Salah
Thanks for your comment. I found a lot of the points discussed in your comment interesting.
I wanted to point out that Qur'an is in "perfect Arabic". There was no way the stories mentioned in Qur'an, that are relevant to OT (I think?), with such accuracy, and in the Arabs' own tongue, could have been told from someone who lived in the desert all his life among disunited Arab tribes unless it was done by means that's beyond humans. Arabs, being masters of their own language, were challenged to make anything that resembles Qur'an, and they failed. Also, notice that Qur'an tells people to worship one God who created the heavens and earth and to believe in all prophets and the Holy books. Atheists worshipped statues, objects or Pharaohs etc and didn't have any knowledge about the afterlife except for wild guesses.
I think there is a very good reason for Muslims being asked to defend themselves against those who fight them. Also, Jews were asked in several occasions to use "military" means to enter certain villages. They were punished when they refused once and asked Moses, pbuh, and his God to do the fighting. Besides, I think it was the best way to topple the tyranny of the Roman empire. The Egyptians, for example, welcomed the saracens to free them from the Romans after a very long time of oppression. (I don't claim at all that all Muslims rulers were good and just - very few were)
I found this particular video in TED, NeilMacGregor_2011G, interesting. Also, I am interested in the archaeological evidence that supports the stories in the Holy books. (even though a few millions of Egyptian papyri, among other Egyptian heritage, have been guests"abroad" for a few centuries, being studied and researched thoroughly - no complaints since I think human history belongs to all humans)
Personally, I don't see anything wrong if Qur'an asks us to worship one God, to believe in all prophets, to ensure justice, and to fight those who fight us, as self-defense. (?)
Roy Bourque 20+
I also believe that Mohammed was inspired by this one true God. My only contention is that the Qur'an denies Jesus as the Messiah. Otherwise, I find it to be in harmony with the holy books, a claim that the Qur'an makes itself.
Every religion has had its military conquests. The Israelites were sent to overthrow those who engaged in idol worship. The Christians had their crusades. There is an ongoing battle between good and evil. All three religions that you mention make note of this.
I don't believe that the war in Afghanistan is about Muslims verses non-Muslims. I believe that Opium lords are fighting to protect their turf against outside influence. They use their religion to unite the people and the fighting goes on. But is their cause just if drug trafficking has such detrimental effects on its users? Are these Muslims worshipping the one true God in a way that God would approve?
The book I mentioned "Testament" by John Romer contains some valuable historical documentation on the Holy land. There was also a PBS video series done on the book, which is where I heard about it.
I don't think it's a question on worshipping one true God, but in how you worship God. Jesus said love your enemies and do good to those that hate you. I have read stories of enemies coming together because the people decided not to fight but to find common ground. Love and forgiveness is contagious. So is hate. Which one you promote determines who your master is.
Amr Salah
I don't believe the way the media is portraying what's going on in Afghanistan as a war against Opium lords. (even then, it doesn't give the USA and the NATO the right to invade Afghanistan for so many years. Notice the pattern of picking one Arab, and specially Arab, country after the other. It's not a coincidence.)
The better explanation is that they want to impose their "imperial power" by terrorizing people by drones and other "sophisticated war toys". (but things are not going as they hope) Also, this gives the USA and NATO a chance to control Afghanistan as a key strategical region and to test their war toys and further advance them.
(as for testing the war toys, for example, they sent some simulations of war in Iraq and Afghanistan to South Korea as a program to give some special units some experience to "deal with" North Korea's Nuclear facilities.)
I'm sure you know that the USA and the NATO wouldn't spend that much money (check American military expenditure) and send so many people for that many years, whatever the ridiculous excuse they'd try to make, unless they have significant interests that keeps them there. (dominance, oil, etc..)
Muslims are asked to keep peace and to respect treaties. However, we're asked to fight back those who fight us, kill our people, or invade our land. And if you think about it, it's not just religious, but it's very logical too. Self-defense is a human right.
Yes, I agree that forgiveness is a very valuable virtue, but justice is just as important.
Roy Bourque 20+
I have heard many reports of Muslim honor killings, suicide bombers, and genocide in Muslim countries. How can a religion promote itself if it is going to resort to such tactics? I understand that a people have a right to defend themselves. But when they can't agree among themselves, it makes it hard for me to see just what it is that they are defending. What is your opinion on such events and why does it seem that the Muslim community isn't able to stop it even thought the Muslim leaders claim they don't condone it. Just what is the power behind it?
Amr Salah
I know some clues. I know most of the Arab countries suffered as colonies for many years. I know how much the West likes the "divide and conquer" strategy. I know how secular regimes were forced on people and how people were oppressed by regimes they never wanted for many years. Not to place much of the blame on the West, the divisions already existed for centuries. Now, we're living through very troubling times.
Everyone is responsible only for his own deeds. As for leaders, they'll eventually get what they deserve.
The American military strategy used in the middle-east is sparking anger. They cannot be "that blind" to deny the accumulating fury with every civilian killed by their troops. Would Americans be happy to see Russian, or Chinese, drones and troops killing civilians on the American soil? No, they definitely won't like it.
If the West seriously wants the middle-east to heal, they should let it solve its problems on its own. They should remove the American military bases from the middle-east and send their troops home. They should stop selling weapons to the middle-east. They should stop trying to force secular regimes on Muslim communities.
Obey No1kinobe 50+
Amr Salah
And even if you assume he was told what's in the OT and NT by another human, it would be even more impossible for Qur'an to be the way it is, in perfect Arabic that challenged the masters of this language at that time.
The tribes of that time tried to kill him several times because they would lose their authority and power if Mohammed, pbuh, taught people the truth.
Actually, when you asked me about evidence, I should have told you Qur'an is the evidence. In Islam, Qur'an is a miracle. If you want a serious challenge, try to read Qur'an or ask someone to explain it to you. That's if the Western media didn't make you too afraid to read it.
Obey No1kinobe 50+
Therefore everything in it must be true.
Therefore god
Just like that? Not very convincing.
Some Christians believe the bible is a inerrant as well - which is the same type of miracle.
Walking on water is a miracle. Writing a good book, not so much.
So if people try to kill someone, that proves everything he said is true?. Romans killed Christians, they must have been telling the truth that Jesus is god
I'm not a Christian so I don't think the devil will get me reading any other religious books. I had a Qurán. Read a bit in English. I think you need to believe it is a miracle or want to believe that. It didn't look that amazing to me.
So you have a book that says there is a god and that is all the evidence you have that there is an invisible, immaterial god. Not much to go on really is it? Not much different from any other religious books. Sort of a 3rd party reference rather than proof of the god.
Nothing that could not be explained naturally. Paper, ink, pen and a brain.
Do you realise how flimsy that sounds to someone not indoctrinated.
You are asserting this is a perfect book, whatever that means.
Therefore all the bits in it you can not prove must be true,
Circular reasoning.
Just as flimsy as belief in the Old and New Testament.
Amr Salah
Let me follow your line of thought. This Book is a miracle. This Book is the only book that helps guide to the truth about the purpose of life and what comes after. No one claimed for the past millenniums or can claim they have better answers. It is true because it links the past (OT and NT) to the present and future. It is true because without it we wouldn't have known what is right and what is wrong and wouldn't have known that we will be judged. Without it we wouldn't have known God. This Book is true because people can do evil and without a Book that tells what is right and wrong and organizes rules of human soceity, life would be chaos.
It is not an ordinary book. This Book explains life and explains what will come after. This Book answers questions that we fail to answer. This Book discusses times and places unknown to us. This Book tells stories of people in the past that we would have otherwise not known. This Book challenges you to seek the truth and challenges you to think. The challenge have been there for 1400 years and it will remain as long as humans live. This Book could help guide to the truth. Ask those who died before you, did they find any meaning or purpose to the short time you lived when you denied the Book.
Was life fulfilling for those who spent it in earthly pleasures?
"You are asserting this is a perfect book"
I said this after reading it many times. You may have your personal judgment after doing the same thing.