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what do you think of the minimum wage law?

What do you think of the current minimum wage law? Do you think it should be raised, lowered, or abolished? give your opinion.

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    Aug 16 2012: Isn't the real issue that globally we ned to re envisions management labor relations?

    unions, minimum wage statutes, occupational safety laws are all hold overs from a history of exploitation by onwebers f the means of production.

    We as consumers can help to break that chain by refusing to accept, refusing to purchase products that are based on exploitation without waiting for labelel to tell us which are fair wage/fair trade. As long as we consumers don't have the integrity and character to take responsibility for that ( without someone rasearching and labeling it for is) there will be exploitation and we will have a clumsy awkward structure of trade agreements and worker protection laws that don't fully merge together in delivery products in the markets place that we can know for certain are not based on worker exploitation.
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      Aug 16 2012: Lindsay, I LOVE the way you reframe things but as a mother who used to be very busy with 5 kids and work, and school, I seldom had time to research much except the best value on kids' shoes. We have to help one another toward a better world even if it is only by telling each other where to look for information to make someone else's busy life work with our own goals.
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        Aug 16 2012: Hi Debra,

        I undersand what you are saying. but .as mothers and grandmothers we can always choose to give our children what we can afford that also speaks our values and teaches our children values..thif tstores, discount stores, hand me downs etc.

        Our values must be what we live from and express without exception..not just what we say we believe in..

        Of course we can't be sure with every purchase what went into it..we don't have any way of knowing that but we can hold ourselves reasonably to a standard of maximum feasible mindfulness in all of our purchases I think.

        My main pont, though. is not a chastizing one but holding up the power of what we demand of our selves, of the people we buy from.

        Our choices, expectaions and demands as consumers is very very potent.
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          Aug 16 2012: Agreed Lindsay -you are preaching to the choir but my point is about compassion for young women. We who are elder and who have more time can help.
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    Lejan .

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    Aug 16 2012: The minimum wage of a fulltime job must be able to sustain a single income family of average size within a given country.

    Only a law was able to guarantee this minimum and to control it. Otherwise the simple rules of supply and demand in a so called 'free market' would just undermine the situation of employees and would force them to agree on less wage in order to keep their jobs and not to get substituted by others. 'Human resources' should not be allowed to be played off against each other in order to simply maximise profit. This should even be implemented in the charta of human rights and internationally adjusted by import duties to finally stop the migration of jobs to low income countries as it happens today.

    The economy got to serve us, the people as a whole and its strive got to include not exclude them.
  • Aug 16 2012: The American Dream costs sixty or seventy thousand dollars a year average weekly wage adjusted for inflation has been falling for years. As a low tax country government of all forms is about thirtyK do the math.. Minimum wage for a full time fob is less than 15K Smart Economists tried to tell us the problems of McJobs years ago. It's like thermodynamics.. Sources and Sinks. We've imported unskilled workers to do these jobs and exported or outsourced good jobs. Not saying what's right or wrong, but all the states where people live in any numbers are fiscal messes. Get Real Co back and reread Demings Out of the Crisis It's in English sort of Statistics really. minimum wage jobs are an economic disaster in the industrial world. How do you live on that. Even the old slave owners generally fed their slaves and saw that the slaves had a place to stay. Lower the minimum wage is an unimaginably said thing if you're the kind of person who can imagine the sad lives these victims will have.
  • Sep 15 2012: "what do you think of the minimum wage law?"

    I'm assuming you're talking about the American minimum wage. I think it should be raised, or at least coupled to the CPI.
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    Aug 17 2012: The illusion is that if you dont plan your goals some one else plans them for you. I think people should start out at 0 and work there way up... They learn more about what money actually is which is energy ... Minimum wage is just a way to keep people honest...
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    Aug 17 2012: Shhh.... Don't tell no one it's a illusion...
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    Aug 17 2012: If a job is not worth compensating a worker enough to be above the poverty level, the job is not worth doing. If society does not think a cashier at a store is worth being paid above poverty level, society should not have cashier jobs.

    In the US we pay food stamps to those under the poverty level with tax money to help alleviate their poverty. That means the money is in the economy already, but it comes out of the pockets of those who are above the poverty level as taxes. Those tax payers subsidize the lower income earners through their taxes in the form of food stamps. We could stop paying the extra tax, and instead pay the difference to the companies with the lower paid workers as the services are provided. This would help the employers pay a living wage.

    Economic studies have shown in some models that raising the minimum wage above the poverty line increases unemployment, and in other studies it shows that raising the minimum wage above the poverty line lowers the poverty level. There is not a firm consensus within the economic field on this issue. Free market proponents find ways to get and analyze data to support their views, and left leaning economists find ways to get and analyze data to support their belief systems.

    Followers of Ayn Rand believe that the only moral value with validity is selfishness. (Selfishness will lead to the most good for the most people.) They are conveniently ignoring one of the main attributes of selfishness in their reasoning. If selfishness is the only good, then those at the top of the company should hoard more and more of the profits for themselves at the expense of their employees. All employers should do this if selfishness is the only moral good. All employees would then have to work for lower and lower wages. The paradox of objectivism: The rich exploit their employees until the lower classes can't afford to participate in the economy, and then the whole system collapses. (also posted on another thread)
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      Aug 17 2012: solution A: guy works, gets 4 per hour, receives a small amount of food stamps to help him out

      solution B: guy stays at home, gets more food stamps

      i fail to see how solution B is better for anyone, except for the guy if he is lazy.

      and what about all those that are perfectly happy with low payments, for example because they work for experience (for example they work for a chef, and learn the job doing it).

      ah, and what poverty limit you are talking about? hope not the 21600 usd per year ridiculously huge sum, which i'm barely over with my way-above-average salary here, in hugary. so that notion about "not worth having" is so condescending and arrogant.
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        Aug 17 2012: I was not arguing for welfare without work in my post. Your presentation of solution B has no relation to my arguments.

        Please show the evidence that people in poverty are working for experiences. If the chef needs an employee and his food is good enough to produce a demand in the market, he should be willing and able to pay a living wage to his apprentice. If the demand is not there, the job should not exist.

        Good point about the differences in the standard of living between countries.

        If you are unhappy with your current level of income, then your theory says you should find a higher paying job. Of course if all the employers are selfish, all the jobs would be low paying.

        I doubt we will be able to convince each other to change our view point, but if you can show me a valid chain of logic that shows selfishness is the only moral good, I may change my mind.
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          Aug 17 2012: you might not argue that, but then what do you do here? with minimum wage, some people will not be able to work, and have to say at home. that is all minimum wage can gain us.

          evidence? evidence for a possibility? what for? logic! btw it is common. many chefs that already has a good business go to work to a world class chef just to peek on his technique. smaller wine producers go to work for large wineries to learn. university students or fresh graduates eager to get fame or practice before they have families and need more cash. stay at home moms would work for any amount just to do something useful in the few free hours they have.

          unhappy with my way-above-average salary? not really. i'm quite happy with it. so should anyone in the US earning 20000 a year, which is more than ten times the average in nepal.

          and that selfishness and moral thing ... i have no idea what that's got to do with anything we were discussing. for me, non aggression is the only moral good. for example if two people agree on an employment contract, i have no right to stop them. and that is enough for me to reject the idea of minimum wage on pure moral grounds.
    • Sep 15 2012: "Economic studies have shown in some models that raising the minimum wage above the poverty line increases unemployment"

      Well yeah, of course it does, but having 100% employment is menaningless when pay is sh*tty. If minimum wage was $1 per day there would be 100% employment because the rich would have armies of personal asswipers, but going from unemployment to making $1 per day isn't exactly an improvement.
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    Aug 16 2012: Here is the link to the other conversation going on right now on this very subject:
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