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Scientifically speaking, is it possible for the Noah's ark story to have happened?
Scientifically speaking, is it possible for the Noah's ark story to have happened?
Why or why not?
Topics:
religion and science
Showing single comment thread. View the full conversation.
Showing single comment thread. View the full conversation.
Jason Kather 10+
*Immaculate conception and virgin birth?
*Turning water into wine, walking on water?
*The entire Sodom and Gomorrah story?
*A bush that burns forever?
*Talking snakes?
*A man gets 72 virgins in heaven if he blows himself and innocent children up to protect Islam in that name of Allah?
*Jesus sailed to America from Israel 2000 years ago and The Garden of Eden was in Missouri?
*Post Mortem Baptisms, secret golden tablets buried in the dirt that were translated by an angel, Africans have black skin due to being cursed descendants of Cain because he killed his brother, Abel?
*75 million years ago, Xenu brought billions of his people to Earth (it was called Teegeeak then) in a spaceship, killed them, and packed their souls around volcanoes?
*Countless other "unbelievable" religious beliefs that are indoctrinated into people from birth...
Where is the proof for any of these things, yet millions and even billions of people just believe these things happened because it is written in a certain book or their parents told them it is true. The scientific method is not allowed to be applied to these beliefs; the known laws of nature are just brushed aside for the belief in "divine" magic.
Either you believe these things or you don't. I respect a person's right to follow whatever religion they choose as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else, but let's not call it science. Most religious beliefs are not fact, not provable, and go against known laws of nature. This is the exact opposite of science. Noah and his Ark fall into this category for all of the reasons mentioned below in the many posts which explain why it would be impossible for this story to be true.
Debra Smith 200+
There are also scientifc incidences of I think Turkey eggs which when pricked with a glass rod begin to turn into turkeys. Thus, I think it behooves us all to be respectful to one another. No one has a monopoly on truth.
Jason Kather 10+
And please find me one religious person who believes the "water into wine" story as something close to what you describe.
Adriaan Braam 20+
Whatever you read in the Bible has nothing to do with human history. On the lowest spiritual level (there are three) It was written to contain the spiritual development of each human individual that decides to become spiritual. That process goes through seven stages. All seven stages are in details of the journey from Egypt (kind of science) to Canaan (heavenly state of mind).
The talking serpent is our body-senses which tell us 'that's all there is and we are in charge (not God). That attitude makes our mind spiritually "void" and takes us out of Eden (the heavenly state of mind). That's why at the end of the Bible (when everything is done right, Eden is back.
If you'd just like to have a look at the parable of Adam and Eve, so you know where I'm coming from, here it is, enjoy and have a great weekend.
http://webhome.idirect.com/~abraam/studies/Parable_Adam_Eve.pdf
There is also the parable of Babel, and several others.
John Moonstroller 20+
I understood what you were getting at and such arrogant retorts roll of me like water off a ducks back. Some people, however, like to point out how arrogant we sound sometimes. I wonder why?
Jason Kather 10+
I actually agree with most of what you say. The issue is that these parables are taught to young, innocent, impressionable children in Sunday School as fact. These children grow up believing these stories are legitimate human history. This faulty software that is uploaded to the minds of otherwise intelligent people is almost impossible to be extracted at some point. Religious indoctrination has many people believing that the bible is 100% accurate when it has many errors and contradictions and impossible fairy tales. This is the "Religion" that I speak of and it is by no means limited to Christianity.
It amazes me that each person views the more elaborate fantasies of their own religion as normal, but they will be so quick to point out the crazy parts of a different religion. Critical thinking is only lost on them when it comes to the faulty software that has been uploaded to their brain. The rest of the "software" and obviously the "hardware" is intact.
You won't get any arguments from me when you say that the Bible has nothing to do with human history (although I believe it does contain actual history mixed in with the made up parts), but you will get many objections from religious people.
I wonder if you would be willing to list some of the supernatural parts of the Bible (new and old testaments) that you do believe as fact? This is an honest question. It is a personal question for most and I understand if you choose not to answer. I am assuming you believe in the immaculate conception, Jesus' miracles, and the resurrection? Why was the part added that says all of the graves opened up and the dead roamed the Earth for a few days after? I also am curious as to exactly how you interpret the difference between what is literal and what is not in these books. Does science ever have anything to do with the decisions?
Adriaan Braam 20+
--"Religious indoctrination has many people believing that the bible is 100% accurate when it has many errors and contradictions and impossible fairy tales."--
That's why my religion believes in another fairy tail LOL We believe the Second Coming has taken place. As promised by the Lord God Jesus Christ, the Spirit of Truth will come and tell us plainly of the Father. That new Revelation is what we base our beliefs on. As you say, in the literal text there are indeed many errors and contradictions. But in the spiritual sense those are used and become realities and truths.
I do not see such difficulty in kids believing parables while young. A belief in Santa may have some good points too and shape a kid for the good. Often it is better for a child to hear a made-up story than being explicitly told e.g. how we are made and born. There is nothing more important than to protect a child's innocence.
Yes, we believe that God revealed Himself differently to different continents or parts of the human race. What worked best for each (and each individual as well) was used. So we do very much believe that EVERY good person of whatever religion will go to heaven. That's why my personal motto is IF whatever you believe, makes you a better person, believe it!
Love questions!
Except for the first 10.5 chapters in Genesis, which were copied by Mozes from earlier (oral?) belief systems, everything that happened did happen. However, it was written from a human perspective. God said we had to destroy this, God wanted us to kill those etc. etc. are written, again, based on the human opinion that's what God wanted. Now all that text does, again, have a spiritual meaning. When the Israelites said 'they were told' to kill a whole tribe or city, in order to get into Canaan, that portrays how we as individuals have to destroy and kill the evil and bad influences we've let in our mind. Including the source (adults), the derivatives (children) and also bad habits (cattle).
Adriaan Braam 20+
You mentioned "I am assuming you believe in the immaculate conception, Jesus' miracles, and the resurrection?" Yes very much so, because God came down to earth in a body He made in Mary. This sounds easy because everyone says that. Not so. Most Christians believe in three Gods (while saying one), and other things that we do not agree with. This is how we see Jesus,
http://webhome.idirect.com/~abraam/studies/Who_is_Jesus.pdf
At this moment my internet connection is intermittent, but this is how we see the Sacred Scripture and I'll have to ask someone about the graves that were opened..
http://webhome.idirect.com/~abraam/documents/sacredscripture.pdf
Again, we love questions, as we also believe we did not get our smarts just to become smart shoppers.. :)
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Added
I forgot your last question about science being involved. No science is not because there is nothing spiritual in science, as you know. That's why science can tell us that we think but not what we think.
There should be a good and friendly relationship between science and religion, and there can be if both realized what they can and cannot do. It is somewhat the same as building a house. Science can build us the greatest mansions, but it is only the spirit or love that can make it a home.
Everything I say here is based on what was revealed through Emanuel Swedenborg and he was a perfect example of a healthy relationship between religion and science. He was a famous scientist first, much liked by the Swedish king and queen. E.g he wrote extensively about NDE's and was given his own chapter in the book "Life After Life" by R. Moody.
Adriaan Braam 20+
You asked about if there is a spiritual meaning to other parts of the Old- and New Testament. Swedenborg’s most popular book “Heaven and Hell” explains that issue in the first couple of pages.
http://webhome.idirect.com/~abraam/documents/Heaven%20and%20Hell.pdf
But your question about the tombs being opened after the Lord’s Resurrection is much appreciated.
We believe God came down to earth in human form (because evil spirits cannot tempt God) so He could resolve another flood of evil by exposing evil and sending it to hell. He did not want to kill devils because the God of love, loves even devils (not what they love and do). Ever heard of a child screaming at its parent “I hate you!!” and the parent replies “But I love you anyway.”
So because of this strong evil presence, God protected good people that had died, in a hidden section of the spiritual world (the ‘lower earth’), so the devils could not approach and hurt them. When God’s work was done by subjugating the hells, He was resurrected. Now there was again a perfect balance between good and evil, which restored the freewill of all humans. So this made it possible for those in the ‘Lower Earth’ to be let go and go to heaven. The Holy City Jerusalem (or Canaan) is not talking about the literal city but means heaven. The earthly city Jerusalem certainly could not be considered as holy because it had just crucified its God.
Swedenborg often, while going from verse to verse explaining them, also goes to other parts of the Bible where it supports what he says or also applies. The above is based on what he wrote in his books about Revelation (Apocalypse Explained, vol 4, par. 659:15). This link is to that book and if you use “find” to go to page 2251, then you’ll be on the spot.
http://www.swedenborg.com/downloads/swedenborg_foundation_apocalypse_explained_04.pdf
Hope ot hear from you, and that my internet keeps working :)
John Moonstroller 20+
Such teachings can be dangerous to primitive mind sets causing them to act and/or behave in violent ways. Children have been known to set one another on fire or stoned to death for the same reason. In some primitive countries where the people are not as scientifically sophisticated as modern western people, they still stone their women to death for religious reasons. The middle east comes to mind.
Peter Law 30+
You doubt the ability of the creator of the universe to do party tricks ?
If you want evidence; just look around.... Don't see it.?...........Better go with the Big Bang then :-)
Obey No1kinobe 50+
Some straight forward observations of religious teachings that some take literally.
I'm not sure turning grapes (that contain water, sugars etc) into wine via a time consuming process of fermentation is what the bible is suggesting when it claims Jesus turned water into wine.
Some might take the supernatural and mythical aspects with a grain of salt yet still believe in the bits that make sense to them. There are infinite ways to interpret a collection of books like the bible.
They might even ignore that the flood story is about exterminating humankind, a failed creation, global genocide, the work of a Divine monster.
While I'm all for freedom of religion, within limits, on principle and because atheists are a minority where I live, I have no issue questioning and challenging the ideas the beliefs the morals etc.