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What is the source of all this trouble?

The trouble of our days is an increasing imbalance of not only man and nature, but among peoples, as well as within people, themselves.

What is the source of all this trouble?
David Bohm said: The source is basically in thought. Many people would think that such a statement is crazy, because thought is the one thing we have with which to solve our problems. That's part of our tradition. Yet it looks as if the thing we use to solve our problems with is the source of our problems.


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      Aug 2 2012: Quite so - thought itself is not the problem
      The conflict comes from the automatic, unconscious crystallisation of that thought.
      Thoughts themselves can be wonderful movements of intelligence - they appear and dissapear like subatomic particles out of the void. in such they are the movement of intelligence.
      It is the clutcing on to those thoughts as truth, further building up our self image or world view; and the ensuing valorisation of these beliefs (that we have spent years moulding and perfecting) together with the understandable unwillingness to let go despite the problems they may cause - that leads to conflict, depression, and other unhealthy behaviour.
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        • Aug 3 2012: In a way the worse the better, maybe, the society we live in globally is a a fire in a mad house.
          "The excessive increase of anything causes a reaction in the opposite direction."
          Maybe only madness can bring the sanity back. I think/hope, it is exactly what is happening :)
      • Aug 2 2012: Douglas,
        Yes, thought itself is not the problem.
        What you mention requires disidentification from the "self" created by thought.
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          Aug 3 2012: A logical conclusion Yuri - Sounds tricky - like a dog chasing its tail
    • Aug 3 2012: Hi, Ed !
      Is there a conscious thought ? Does consciousness think ?
      • Aug 3 2012: according to the book Quantum Philosophy it does.
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        • Aug 5 2012: I love your comments, Ed, i do !
          Whatever you are talking about, one thing is clear enough : language serves much better to shape an un conscious thought than conscious one:)
          Poetry aside, it's a noble attempt to use language to tell something that is unlanguagable by definition.
          Consciousness is self evident, but if somebody asks me what is it, i don't know what it is. Everybody agrees though that there are different levels of consciousness: sunflower is conscious where the sun is, but doesn't have means to tell. or be conscious of being conscious of it. We can tell a lot of clever things about the sun, feeling separated from it, hence being not conscious of it.
          Something like that ...." the doors are so wide open" when there are no doors .
          For me it sounds true enough,( true enough is the truest truth i can possibly get via words ) i can stand under it :)
          My question is : why/when did it happen to HUman Beings ? Why/ when we start to take rational mind too seriously, as if it is a light itself, not a 'device' for reflecting the light ? Was it a choice ? Maybe it was ; what if it was a conscious choice of Consciousness itself ? Maybe it is not a detour from the " true Self realization ", but exploring different means to achieve it.
          ' Mind- becomes- humble- through- arrogance' kind of a project . Consciousness / I / God whatever the name is playing with matter in mind's hands, but neither of those have ever left the domain of Consciousness. The old Russian saying tells " all roads lead to God " We are doomed to succeed, whatever the way.
          Maybe we are still governed by the judgemental sentiment : something has got damn wrong and that's why we are in trouble now, by our mind's definition of trouble. But maybe it is not quite true ?
          What do you think ?
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        • Aug 8 2012: Choice seems to be always not the right word, yet there is nothing but choices "Privilege accessible through the uniqueness of taking on HUman" means that WE ARE THE CHOICE . What is privilege if not to be chosen ? Though i agree, it has little to do with ' choice' :)
          Everything wants to articulate itself, everything wants to communicate itself and be perceived. We humans want it and "as above so below " we are the consciousness itself that seeks to be known. Otherwise how the very idea of Truth could possibly enter our mind ?
          Who introduced that notion of 'eternal return ' ?
          We were in the state "we have no questions we have no answers", then the serpent came into the Garden and seduced the Yin part of our Human psyche to explore/create the matter through mind, ( Serpent is the mind itself ), a being ( Adam ) became aware that it is aware, that state gave a birth to ego and so it began... and now maybe we are close to be aware of awareness itself "move outside the tangle of fear thinking, live in silence." It means seized to be " I am that " , it's a way back to the Garden.
          It's just a musing on the theme ' when/how did it happen ?" :)

          That Russian proverb is complete ( if anything can ever be complete ), it means exactly what you said. I've translated it word by word "Все дороги ведут к Богу" , it's clear and simple , no ambiguity here, but still there is a loss in translation, and it's always the case. How Rumi sounds in Persian ? I wish i knew :)
          Thanks for responding , Ed !
          Have a nice day !
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        • Aug 9 2012: Language in general is a tricky thing , really. It reflects the best the human condition ; we are cursed and blessed by the possibility/ impossibility to convey the most important experiences. Translation from one language to another adds to the confusion. But there is a hope ... the closer you are to the context with your own experience the better chance you get to catch the vibe and ' see ' what you are spoken to and see the mind of the speaker and be that person for that moment for the purpose... to recreate the experience, to live it again; it makes it bigger and a kind of ' understandable '. So, the ' word ' of a genius can do the trick. We also can be understood sometimes . Ideally silence should be understood but it is not an on line option :)
          Or is it ? We use ' ...... ' not meaning 'etc' , but something that is the most important.
          Ed,thanks for the Rumi ' extension ' , that's what i meant : to have the context for ...

          Bohm says " whatever the SELF is , it is the essence of the essence and it is unknown but constantly revealing itself."
          I think, in a way he managed to english Rumi :)

          Sorry for the delay with my responses, i enjoy our conversation very much , but we have + 35/7 C in the shadow here, with tropical humidity, it's quite recent and needed to be adopted. As Brodsky put it "...in such a heat if i was to choose how to die i would prefer a cold blade ..." i prefer to live that's why all my free time i spend in the depth of the Black sea , developing fins and scale, i haven't succeeded yet :)

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