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Yuri Gomez

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For debt. Let's give points for caring nature instead of the contrary.

If not every printed currency is backed by an equivalent value in gold. if all printed money is borrowed into existence from nothing. If all this debt is already virtual. instead of giving points for contaminating the world by gold extraction, let's give points for caring nature .
I'd like to know, What initiatives are on this direction?

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    Aug 1 2012: Yuri, I am sorry if we got a bit sidetracked here in your thread. The reason I raised the points I did is that I think as problem-solvers, it is useful to figure out what have been, and what have not been, the problems or roots of them.

    If we attribute to those before us what I will summarize as "bad values" or lack of effort to make things better for the living and future generations, I think we miss the mark and will think that we will automatically do better because we have better values and are willing to work more seriously for the public good.

    We do need to put serious effort in and to attend to what we value, but it isn't quite right to pretend that the generations before us were less caring, for example, than we are.

    I want clarification on your question. Are you proposing that debts be repayed by demonstration of a caring nature?
    • Aug 1 2012: No problem with the sidetracked thread! :)
      I understand your point about jumping to conclusions.

      Well, the idea is this: As the gold that is backing up the printed money, has not been extracted yet. and if the only reason for the gold extraction is to catch up with the paper money then why don't replace the notion of value that gold represents for a better one!.
      Yes by demonstration of a caring for nature..

      I'm just trying to put into words what I think is already happening..
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        Aug 1 2012: I don't think gold is extracted to back money. But let's look at what might happen if loans were paid back not in money but in having a caring nature.

        Let's imagine we have a collection of elderly people who put their money in the bank so that they can draw on it and their earnings from it to support their expenses in retirement. The interest the bank gives them for holding their money is a reflection of the fact that the bank can pool their money and lend it (with interest) to people and businesses that need it to buy homes or invest in equipment for the business, and so forth.

        What happens now if those who borrow the money come back and say they cannot repay it but would like instead to demonstrate for the investor that they have a caring nature? Does the bank tell grandma that the funds she has deposted cannot be withdrawn as cash for her to pay for her expenses because it has been repayed not with cash but rather by the borrower's having a caring nature?
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    Aug 1 2012: Yeah, I think we need to do more investing, rather than borrowing from loans. Why should the next generations pay for older generations' mistakes?
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      Aug 1 2012: Just as long as you remember, James, that the next generation also benefits from the older generation's discoveries and accomplishments. These are the results of substantial investments, some of which have also been financed by borrowing or supported by borrowing. Much of the good you will inherit also comes from the intense desire of your elders to leave the world better for you than they received it.

      It is so easy to look down condescendingly at mistakes and ignore the rest of what you inherit and the good hearts that tried their best.
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        Aug 1 2012: Hmm, you're right, almost no matter what we do, the newer generation will benefit from us in some way, that's how society advances and changes.

        And you're right, we are a product of our society. I am who I am because of how I was raised by my parents and others around me.

        Well, that doesn't mean we shouldn't help the newer generation as much as we can.
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          Aug 1 2012: What I think is worth considering is that the generations before you HAVE had you in mind. Your parents, your schools, your local governments when they plan capital projects... It is not that those older than you have been thinking only of themselves while younger people have the insight to think about future generations!

          This may be hard to believe, but every generation before you has also thought about leaving things better for future generations. And every generation has made mistakes and miscalculations. It isn't that they weren't thinking of you and that you benefitted accidently, no matter what they did..

          Your generation may make mistakes as well. I expect you, like the generations before you, will try to do what you think is right for the world, sometimes succeed and sometimes mess up.
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        Aug 1 2012: Yes, I agree, it would be reasonable that they did think of these things like we are doing now.

        In the grander scheme of things, every thing will be for the better.
      • Aug 1 2012: Yes, in some sense they did things with thought, effort and imagination. unfortunately that way of thinking doesn't work any more.