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Faisal Habib

struggling, free lance

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What if, in a fine morning, you learn, "There's nothing called God"!

Gods exist from 'god knows how many millenniums'. And they come to mankind as virtual beings time to time: promising heaven and hell and with sets of instructions to be followed - differing according to the religions they propose. We all, except for a few, are so dependent on them for our everyday life - trying to find a purpose of our existence, some meaning of what we call life. History is full of wars to establish 'the true god'. And, as of today, there's no sign that this will come to an end any time soon. So, we are born with a specific religion as our birth right and we fight till death trying to do --- what....

What if, in a fine morning, you come to learn that there is actually no entity such as 'god'. That, the concept is no more necessary to live a nice life on this earth...

What might be the first thing in your mind...

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    Aug 1 2012: Could you hand me over the marmelade, please...

    After the breakfast I would then look at the evidence which was able to prove the nonexistence of god and would consider what took it so long to be found.
    • Aug 1 2012: Ok, here is your marmalade, finish breakfast first...

      evidences gather over time, not meaning that you wont hear another "Eureka" ever....
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        Aug 1 2012: Thanks for the jam jar.

        On a fine morning I actually expect a 'Eureka' moment. So far I have not seen any verifiable evidence neither for the nonexistence nor for the existence of any 'god'.

        So whatever I learn on that very morning must be quite new and pretty convincing.
        • Aug 1 2012: you r welcome.
          So do i. true, so far there is/are no verifiable evidence(s). question remains though, why then all those wars will be allowed anyway! and, all the politics, money, brains etc. behind those?
          existence produced dead bodies, all over the world, till today...
          non-existence...! can it prove to be something else a little bit different?

          We keep learning, every moment - new or otherwise. convincing requires a lot of reasoning though...
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        Aug 1 2012: In our virtual breakfast, do you like some coffee? ;o)

        I absolutely agree with you, Faisal, that all the violence we see and face ever since could disprove the existence of a 'god' as many religions project him, her or it. Nature itself is violent, even without humans and the whole Universe is mostly violent for life as we know it.

        But even though if it is as it seems, the whole mess does not prove the nonexistence of a god at all.
        Because if it would by this argument, it would imply that a 'god' or 'creator' had to create a 'happy paradise' only if he, she or it does its 'magic', but why should that be?

        To me this condition would have the same origin as the hope and the believe in a 'good god' itself and therefore does not count in my eyes as a valid proof in this matter.

        I do not believe in a god but I can't disproof him, her or it either by what I see around me and whatever I think of. But that's ok and doesn't bother me at all... coffee? :o)
        • Aug 1 2012: a cup of tea is the norm in Bangladesh, but one coffee is ok anyway.

          >>I absolutely agree with you, Faisal, that all the violence we see and face ever since could disprove the existence of a 'god' as many religions project him, her or it.
          == no arguments...

          >> Nature itself is violent, even without humans and the whole Universe is mostly violent for life as we know it.
          == Nature provided us with earth, didn't it? with promise of more earth like planets humans one day may reach and inhabit.

          >>But even though if it is as it seems, the whole mess does not prove the nonexistence of a god at all.
          == the mess doesn't prove an existence either.

          >>Because if it would by this argument, it would imply that a 'god' or 'creator' had to create a 'happy paradise' only if he, she or it does its 'magic', but why should that be?
          ==magic or not, the creator (if any) created happy paradises where u reach only after death -- the only condition being, follow instructions provided, no matter where you find yourself, a slum or a palace. very easy for some and impossible for some else. and the answer to 'why should that be' can be something like this (u may disagree): it's a human invention in order to gain superiority over others in a society, such as the ancient priests of earlier civilizations who dictated even the ruler(s). more examples are on the pages of the evolution of human civilization.

          >>To me this condition would have the same origin as the hope and the believe in a 'good god' itself and therefore does not count in my eyes as a valid proof in this matter.
          ==it's back to square one again, a supernatural existence determining destiny: 'good' or 'bad', it's about god again....

          >>I do not believe in a god but I can't disproof him, her or it either by what I see around me and whatever I think of. But that's ok and doesn't bother me at all... coffee? :o)
          ==I don't believe in one either. there's no point in proof or disproof: can't state the point due to lack of answering space
        • Aug 10 2012: I feel you guys are traped in a diplaced notion that the world's natural state is chaos. Just to straighten this item: chaos is a matter of perception. Like garbage, one man's chaos is another mans paradise. (If you object, then why would anarchists love anarchy so much?)

          It seems to me that we only find nature to be "violent" because we can't tailor it to our personal tastes. Nature is 'x', we would perfer it to be 'y'. In the resistance nature provides during this transistion 'x to y', we find pain and suffering. Think of literally moving a mountain. As reasonably understood by seismology and shifting of techtonic plates, nature "willed" Mount Everest to be located in Tibet; but, I want a beauitful view of the Indian Ocean from Everst's peak. I hire countless men with shovels and excavators to begin the transplant. How many people do you think will be injured or die in this process?

          In response to "There's no point in proof or disproof": no offense is intended by this, but simply because one can't prove something is or is not true today does not deem it an unworthy endeavor. If this was the modus operandi of the day, we would still be gathering around Stonehenge dressed in pelts wolf-fang necklaces.
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      Aug 3 2012: Hello again Jan-Bernd Pauli:>)
      I LOVE the way you addressed this topic with honesty, a light heart, and open mind:>) I totally agree with you....I would move into the day with the intent and ability to look at new information:>)

      "Angels can fly because they take themselves lightly"
      (Scottish saying)

      Some of the god-fearing folks in the crowd might take a look at this lovely little Scottish saying:>)
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        Aug 3 2012: Good morning Colleen!

        It is nice to have you joining our littel and virtual breakfast. So what do you like, virtual tea or coffee? :o)

        Well, that's life I guess, that even the finest morning meal shared in between an atheist and an agnostic turnes out heavy on the topic of god due to interruption from outside the table... :o)

        So thank you for your friendly support and protection as it is truly appreciated on this treacherous minefield of faith.

        The Scots seem to have a true saying for those who believe in angles and beeing an romantic agnostic, I prefer a more true spirit of mother nature herself, I go for fairies instead... :o)

        But as it is with the bible so it is with all good sayings, they can only make a difference if their meaning get perceived and not just repeated. And repetition never was a sign to me of internalization - on the contrary ... :o)
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          Aug 3 2012: Good Morning Jan-Bernd Pauli :>)

          Thank you...nice to be here, and I like both coffee and tea:>)

          Yes, it IS indeed unfortunate that some folks cannot see the beauty in an atheist and agnostic having a virtual breakfast discussion, or how that discussion is on topic. Yes, I agree...that is life.

          'Tis all a preference of thought my dear man....fairies, angels, leprechauns, little people, etc. They all reside in my gardens, under the protection of Mother Nature:>) All lovely, in my humble perception....just like coffee and tea:>)

          Totally agree...any good saying is ONLY as good as our ability to use it for the purpose of making a difference in our "self" and our world:>)
    • Aug 17 2012: i used to know you as Ja-Brand Pauli from Germany. suddenly, the name changed. did u change 'yourself' too?

      however, i'd like to send u an email about something i find 'interesting'. do u have a personal email address? my one is faisalhabib90@yahoo.com.

      thanks
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        Aug 17 2012: I hope I changed too! :o)
        • Aug 17 2012: well, that sounds different, but i'm not sure which way you changed....

          i'll be interested to know about that change, if u please...
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        Aug 17 2012: Just rephrasing Bertolt Brecht here, meaning, that anything is, and better should be, in continuous flow ...

        My profile I just changed for privacy reasons, as I misunderstood its initial settings and became aware of it later. So nothing dramatical... :o)
        • Aug 17 2012: well, hello, Mr. Bertolt Brecht, nice to meet u at last, provided, u r not already ready to become another one soon. i am not sure what u meant by 'that anything is, and better should be, in continuous flow ...', but, (never mind if it feels irrelevant), as i think, everything that has a start has an end too. and, after the start, till end, it is alright to be in a continuous flow, though reality may not allow one to accept that fact in all environment(s). i hope i could present my point, 'reality' makes people decide between whether to go with the flow or try otherwise. as an example, say, you r swimming in an unknown river and suddenly u realize that there's a waterfall ahead, would u prefer to continue, or, decide to avoid it in time before it's too late?
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        Aug 17 2012: .
        Hmm, I will be already another one tomorrow, but let's don't get into this any deeper...

        Meanwhile I am awaiting your email. :o)
        • Aug 18 2012: ok, as u wish. u r a free man and u can choose to be anyone at anytime, free will in action. no prob from me.

          i didn't get your personal mail address yet cause, my yahoo inbox suddenly stopped receiving new mails. though there should be some mails there by now. (it's not that yahoo isn't working, but the fact is that my add is being treated with 'special' care)

          so, i guess my gmail add will produce the same result too. so, let's try something here. how about, if i say to u that, i found out (after working 12 years with some US institutions such as CIA and may be even Pentagon) that the 'democracy' US is practicing and 'preaching' all around the world to be the best, is actually based on some superstitious conceptions along with some ' science' that actually supports those 'superstitions'! at this point, i must say that, i don't have anything solid in my hand to prove this but experiences of being involved in the last 2 elections (indirectly though) and already included in the coming one, which, already blocked access to my own sites, cause contents may prove to be to 'sensitive' in nature for the election (there r more in it, but i'm trying to be cautious in a public debate)! well, this can be told in public that my experience tells me that, the blind race/war for power at that level even ignores science, let alone others, though US has the best scientists of the world in their stock. and, suddenly, even those scientists may also be ready to defend that flawed 'democracy'. sad but true.
          u don't believe me, right? I can guess that. cause, i experienced it myself, and i can tell u this much that from the beginning of this debate, till now, if you find me to be able to think logically, then u will also believe what i just said in the above para can prove to be logical too (just as a reminder, i'm working with US for the last 12 yrs). and many, many US citizens (including scientists) r also aware of the fact, but they r just defending their country, naturally...
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        Aug 18 2012: A long, long time ago I stopped to believe in the value system of western democracies, especially on global scale, and therefore there is not much in terms of political misuse I would have trouble to imagine.

        Since the term 'conspiracy theories' has become a common and quickly used argument against critical voices and thinking, one can see in which direction the 'game' has changed. Before this it was named 'investigative journalism', but even without this denigration, the professionalism and independence in this filed is declining.

        Science often choses to remain silent in political affairs, as the leash of budgeting and funding is short anyway and often hold and controlled by those in power. So I do not expect much of resistance of those who would risk their careers if they would speak up their true minds.

        All domestic and foreign policy is about power, retention of power and national interests and by this and its nature it is vulnerable against corruption, megalomania and questionable intentions.

        Different as it is in dictatorships, any sinister political motivation within democracies has to be very clever in hiding its true intention and to sell it for the good of the people instead. Therefore it becomes so difficult for the people to understand the true agenda of their very own countries, as information get more and more shattered, distorted, negated, covered or simply faked.

        Isn't it interesting that so called 'free nations' have so much trouble to embrace the idea of websites such as WikiLeaks?

        Who ever came about to learn about the true power of information will know what I am pointing at.

        The decline of freedom will always come with good intentions and brightly labeled!

        For your country one example would be the PATRIOT Act, and for mine there are similar others.

        It is on us, the people, not to allow things to go out of control and to finally stand for our democratic beliefs in our very own freedom! This includes our governments and economy.
        • Aug 19 2012: ok, before starting this reply, i confirmed that, u r still from germany.
          didn't germans got hitler to his position and warred under him till destruction, i must point out it here that, some tried to kill him too while the war was raging. well, germany is considered to be a western nation too, by us from BD. so, r u confident on your political system and democracy, though, i believe, it is different to some extent than US democracy!
          'conspiracy theories' were used against moon landing too. so, 'conspiracy theory' is not what i prefer to choose to use here. and about journalism, i prefer the term 'yellow journalism' over all others.
          a scientist, who finds him/her in such 'paradox', should device a way out, they r scientists anyway, and they know how to do that. it is matter of intention only. in US, politics allow budget for scientific research and politicians use those research results to keep them silent -- 'paradox', isn't it! well, its a matter of intention again.
          >> All domestic and foreign policy is about power, retention of power and national interests... it has been such from the beginning, resulting brit rule, two world wars, cold war days, and now as i see "a US style colonialism"... well i guess it will continue as it is as long as.....
          monarchy, democracy or dictatorship, they're producing the same results, over and over again -- a blind pursuit for world domination. US democracy invented WMD when they needed oil, and they found allies too. and still US is acting with allies to decide who can develop a nuke and who can't... 'freedom', defined as suitable.
          i won't discuss bd here, cause, it's a totally different story from outside and from inside. as an example, a murder will usually get investigated in your country, but, in bd, is is very easy to overlook/bury even murder of a 'journalist family' without any investigation at all.

          science should lead people to that point. so, is there any point of pursuing science knowing what is going to be the result!
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        Aug 20 2012: I used to be confident in German democracy, once, yet there are alarming tendencies going on here too, since the 9/11 terrorism hype and the melt down of the financial market within the EU. So when it comes to voting, I do my very best to prevent the worst from happening and keep my mind awake on each major decisions made. In need I also take my right for protest, to send my signals of disagreement wherever necessary.

        I am concerned about the freedom of press in my country, which on international scale was ranked on place 16 in 2011/12 only by the 'Reporters without Borders' organisation.

        http://en.rsf.org/press-freedom-index-2011-2012,1043.html

        In 2002 Germany was on rank 7, still not among the best, yet better, so something negative has happened since, as those happenings do not occur without purpose!!

        This got to change for a better again, as independent information is one of the core values of any democracy!

        Scientists are also just people and not all of them are willing to risk their careers for their political believes. Of course it is only a matter of personal intention, and I agree with you on that. By this it becomes even more important, that governmental funding on scientific projects was to control by a most independent jury, to avoid or at least minimize favoritism and suppression.

        By mistake I took you as an US citizen and missed the fact that you are from Bangladesh. Sorry for that. By this the US PATRIOT Act does not apply for you of course.

        The downside of western democracies is, that most of them are lacking the resources they need to keep their high standard of living. By this and the immanent need of growth in their economies, they seem to have no choice but to act on double-standards in international affairs. I am not justifying, I am stating facts.

        And as long as this selfish interference on global scale does not stop, we won't enter a time in which the people of nations help each other, especially those which are suppressed.
        • Aug 22 2012: >>And as long as this selfish interference on global scale does not stop....

          who's leading that, man! My answer is, it's USA. and you, western nations, prefer to ally with US knowing all those. In one of my earlier post, ms colleen found me to be blaming one or two, which of course i disagreed with. if it is to blame, the blame goes to the 'developed world' as a whole. They r doing nothing, but, being 'selfish', as they see fit for themselves, cleverly hidden inside an well crafted intention of promoting 'democracy' and 'development' world wide. referencing to your comment: you have to keep your 'high standard of living' ensured, no matter what happens to the rest of the world. well, so, the world world is going to be the same in future too, no matter how you choose your leader (be it a monarch/president/dictator or whatever). it's a matter of 'intention' again, man. 'people' first, who has to grow 'intention' of not being selfish: then leaders, who can make changes, will come out of them automatically. I am sorry to place the example of hitler here again, man (nothing personal pls).

          by the way, u dont need a PATRIOT act in bangladesh at all: if u r in power, u r allowed to do anything and everything, no one will even speak out. and journalism here -- well, you'll need a whole new definition to understand that. we better not go any deeper.... waste of time anyway.

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