- David Grebow
- Carmel Valley, CA
- United States
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The Relentless Learner has become the most important person in the worldwide search for talent. How can we identify them?
Most relentless learners are independent learners. The take programs, attend events, go online and learn in as many ways as they can. And they learn because they are driven to know and know-how things are done. When that thing is related to their performance at work, they trump what is casually referred to as "talent" and leave static event-based degrees and certifications in the dust. Every great innovation and invention can be traced to a relentless learner, yet they are the least understood, rewarded and identified hidden asset an organization or field of study can have. How do we identify and support the relentless learners?
Stephanie Juste
Christine Prokupek
If a relentless learner isn't aware that they even are employed, or even being considered for employement, they are like the wind on their own set course. How can they 'leave things in the dust' if they themselves do not know what they are leaving?
To even ask the question above, should already tell you that you have the ability to identify the relentless learner, its up to you how you choose to support them.
Relentless learners are not mind readers, nor do they want to be. : )
Gord G 30+
What's important for creative thought, is the ability to recognize the potential of diverse concepts. People who are not comfortable thinking independently may dismiss (or miss) potential ideas as incongruent or irrelevant.
Innovation depends more on the quality of thought, than the quantity of information. (and I'm not saying knowledge isn't important)
Antonio Velázquez
Whatever the case I don't think they need to be identified, as they actually show up all by themselves. If they have something to invent, it's pretty much probable that they will make the plan and search funding, and the best applications will get them... Think of "best" as the "most affordable, most practical, most commercial" invention around there.
If you talk about abilities, they might seek help if they need, or look around for contests if they desire win rewards for it.
So the only answer i can find is that government and the different economical systems should give more opportunities for anyone to submit their ideas. If a Relentless Learner needs help for something useful to be made, he'll find it. If he just wants to keep on learning, he'll find it easily. If he has a bad idea (unuseful, unaffordable) it shouldn't be made anyway.
Derek Young 30+
I suggest we attempt to inspire anybody we get a chance to. People need to see there is more in this world than their own limiter world and sphere of connections. I believe only then will talent be in everyone and better intellectual infrastructures will form.
george lockwood 20+
Ian Sheane
Rham Sriram
Granted this is not something new but the source for knowledge and learning are increasing by leaps and bounds to benefit both the privileged and the under privileged.
Digitization,the internet, on line education/courses and associated technologies like search engines, Wikipedia etc. have aided this learning process.
Knowledge is increasing at a faster pace and the individual who can understand and abstract it to recall and leverage it at the time of need becomes the "talent" the world is searching for.
Luke Hobbs
Raja Choudhury
pat gilbert 50+
Where do you draw the line between being a generalist and a dilettante?
The guys from the renaissance were geniuses what about the idea you have to do something 10,000 hours before you are really good at it?
You draw a line between being co opted and integrity to yourself. But on the other hand PR is the way of the world and perhaps the most useful skill one will acquire? Think Tesla verse Edison.
Debra Smith 200+
Further does one remain a dilettante at 9.990 hours and instantly become an expert at 10,000?
Couldn't it be that we should admit that we are not the expert in another person's developent and allow it to unfold as it should and as it can?
pat gilbert 50+
Fritzie Reisner 100+
pat gilbert 50+
Debra Smith 200+
pat gilbert 50+
Debra Smith 200+
You think my questions are insideous?
pat gilbert 50+
Qyv Qyv
Let's start with this...
What is the opposite of Love?
Edwin Tjoe
Jared Kirschner
(1) How are relentless learners created
(2) How do we identify relentless learners of working age
My thoughts:
(1) I would venture to say that everyone starts off with at least the potential to be a relentless learner. Ever talked to a little kid and had them bombard you with "Why" questions? Parenting style and our educational system determine whether this relentless learning trait carries into adulthood. The brain is a pattern-seeking device. It's goal is to learn and to improve itself over time. I think that "relentless learning", which I think is synonymous with "life-long learning", is not uncommon... but for many people it has become hidden behind years of negative reinforcement.
(2) I think this problem can be abstracted to, "How do I determine how good this person is at X", where X could be anything. Take education for example. How do we evaluate performance? Is it based on results? Effort? Ability? Rate of improvement? There are many ways to measure performance, and everyone will give a different set of an ideal performance metric. Great. Now try measuring this performance. It turns out that performance metrics which have to do with "results" are much easier to measure than "potential/ability". A "relentless learner" may have enormous potential, but fewer/worse "results" than someone with more experience but less potential. While the "relentless learner" might be a better choice, who will perform better in the evaluation phase which involves a resume and an interview: the "relentless learner" who might ultimately do better or the person with degrees, titles, some relevant experience, etc? It's hard to measure someone's potential quickly, whether in an academic or a workplace setting. I'm sure it can be done, but it seems like a mostly yet-to-be-solved problem.
Gail . 50+
I am an insatiable learner. There is nothing that I love more, and nothing that brings more satisfaction than learning. There is no field of study that I am not curious about. At the same time, because I don't personally know anyone else who loves learning, I am very isolated.
When I gave up formal education that left too many questions either unanswered, or incompletely or dishonestly answered, my real education began and it developed into a passion. But I had to learn how to change the way I think, and I had to be willing to give up culturally cherished beliefs that conflicted with what I learned to be factual. This makes me an "outsider", who is often treated as a rebel for introducing facts where facts are not welcome.
Our educational systems are built for the benefit of industry and profits, not for the benefit of the people being educated. Creativity and rational thought are educated out of us by the time we leave high school. We are not taught some fundamental things that all need to know about if there is going to be a fix to our common woes (like comparative economics, as ONE instance)
Why are some fields of study inappropriate for education while others are considered appropriate? Why do we not connect the various compartments (fields of study) that are so obviously connectible to one who is not functionally uneducated?
Though I am better educated than anyone I know, I have not purchased any "certificates" that validate my claim of being educated. I can give you fact-based solutions to all of our global & personal problems, but who will hear me out?
When our educational systems are fixed, and not rigged against us, there can be opportunity. But for now, those like me seem destined to remain isolated self-actualized individuals. Because of ignorance, $$$ has become so alluring that no one can be heard above its voice.
Gord G 30+
What I think we need to identify and support is self-actualizers.
Debra Smith 200+
Gord G 30+
To state it in a different way... innovative ideas require more than knowledge, they require imagination.
Debra Smith 200+
george lockwood 20+
Richard Krooman 50+
Lars Mews
And, we hold us down, because we give things a value. Less valuable things followed with passion are rarely respected by the society. So for example a talented bycicle driver will not earn much applause when doing tricks on his bike, but the more perfect he is, the more interesting it gets, because it shows physical and other theories. Imagine there would be nobody in this world with passion for driving a bycicle, nobody would do tricks on these then, we probably would not know that it is possible to do that.
The same you find in universities, subjects we give a financial or social value are supported, others we support less, so their discoveries are less often, what makes it also difficult for the better supported, because they often need discoveries from other subjects to make own new discoveries faster.
We do not have to find such learners, we simply have to let them be. But we move in that direction, as you see, more and more subjects are mixed, probably in the end there is just one subject: "Do what you like most", with access to all usefull tools.
You do not get a delicious meal if your cook is just given a cup of rice. If you give him all possible foods, and he has passion for cooking, you get the best cuisine in the long run. Our "world" develops so slowly, because we are still feared of the idea that every meal for everyone is delicious. But that will also change, as you see, centuries ago just a few had access to machines, today all of us have. And so on.
So the relentless learner will be found in the end, through himself, again.
Qyv Qyv
jpb.com should get you started in the right direction. When you're ready, sometime down the road... Show me your power...
Debra Smith 200+
Qyv Qyv
-Qyv
Qyv Qyv
Chanie Monoker
Simba P.K.S
Chanie Monoker
In my classroom I can identify who is continuously asking questions within the current system, so how would you change the education system to identify the relentless learner (as this is the focus of the question, for I am in agreement that the educational system would benefit from certain changes)
Debra Smith 200+
Simba P.K.S
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."
-Mark Twain
Simba P.K.S
[Edited in reply to Maximilian: Because, learning without curiosity is temporary. Teacher's should teach in such a way that the student becomes curious to know more & gets genuinely interested in the topic... Hope my idea is clear!]
Another thing is to let the students know, "WHY they are learning something"!
Also, I feel that only application level questions should be asked, especially in engineering field.
I would also say that the question and answer style of teaching is the best! Shoot questions 1 after another, get the students thinking. Then they will grasp whatever you teach them... :)
"Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand."
Just told you the perspective of a student!
Maximilian Thomas
I would have to disagree with you in your first paragraph. The teachers' goal is not to arouse curiosity, it is to teach their students a specific way to think. The teacher will use knowledge and inforation as their medium to do so.
While this is not the only reason the teacher teachs, it is the biggest part. Now there is of course a good deal of material that needs to be learned, but we must remember that this is secondary.
With that said the question becomes a little different because we realize that the process of going through school and "learning" independently are two different cases.
I hope I have articulated that clear enough. If you would like I can give a much more in depth answer.
And, as a side note, here is another perspective of a student!
Scott Armstrong 50+
You've identified exactly how to identify these folk in your brief above.
Support is best served by not boxing them in (or out) with rigid and limited assessment processes. Generally, the sort of people you're referring to are well beyond such measures..
Chanie Monoker
Some people belong to a lot of groups but all with a similar agenda, and they aren't there to learn they are there to make everyone listen to their message.
Some people belong to such varied groups whose discussion have no apparent connection, thus demonstrating broadness as well depth.
Some people belong to groups whose commonality is obvious but the broadness of the individual's responses demonstrates area expertise.
(And some people demonstrate that despite an impressive resume they are limited and close minded, not learning at all)
Wade Crum
Gail . 50+
Krisztián Pintér 200+
David Grebow
Krisztián Pintér 200+
Simon Hulshoff
Robert Winner 50+
When it gets down to the final three the seperation is microscopic. Your concern is the relentless learner. What I need is someone who can take that knowledge and apply it.
Being a professional student looks great but what have you done with it .... what can you do with it ... show me. In todays military, government, and corporate world much of the work is compartmentalized. "X" is completed in Seattle, "Y" is accomplished in Ft Worth, and "Z" in LA when the time is right all of the pieces X, Y, and Z will be brought to Phoenix and the puzzle assembled.
As a manager I can tell you that I think you are wrong. I knew who was the real talent on the project. You are right about not always being rewarded. There are certain assets required to move up in each area. Just because that person has the talent does not mean they could ever lead at any level. We can be sure that they will be promoted. They will rise to project assistant manager for operations and their talent will be used over and over but always a brides maid never the bride. Relentless learner does not translate to application which is necessary to meet the needs.
All the best. Bob.
Chanie Monoker
Robert Winner 50+
Bob.
Chanie Monoker
Robert Winner 50+
I never said that a relentless learner could not function in these areas ... I am saying that if given a choice I do not think a relentless learner would last in the long run where a focused task oriented proven performer would.
We could each provide arguments where they would fit ... or not. In the final analysis the decision is in the hands of the project manager. He must marry the talent to the assigned tasks. He has limited resources and limited manpower and must make decisions in the interest of a successful project or he will not lead again. A bad decision is a 1000 hours of wages and manpower wasted.
As David said in his explaination, ... "and when related to his work performance ...." If this person had the talent related to the task they would probally be chosen. But never solely on the basis of being a relentless learner.
Bob.
Gail . 50+
You said, "A person who skips from one area of study to another absorbing information with no desire or inclination to apply that information".
My joy and source of inspiration comes from finding solutions to seemingly unfixable problems. Give me a challenge, and I will work independently, learning all that I need to know in any field of study, to find a workable solution with a factual foundation, and I will find that solution. I haven't failed yet.
Ideas don't exist in a vacuum. They are all connected. I can use that awareness, where you cannot, thus I can accomplish things that overly-compartmentalized people cannot.
Unfortunately for companies like yours, I don't fit well. It's really your loss that you are not able to apply that information because you do not understand the fundamentals of what it means to be an insatiable learner.
Robert Winner 50+
As a project manager, one must work with the talent given. That is not always a easy task. That each has an ego that usually bruises easily is managable. Other traits could be they are loners, develop tunnel vision and thought, deep seated hates which inspire unacceptable attitudes, failure to follow set directions, non-team players, etc ... these are time consuming and difficult to manage at best.
As I said before when the person has a talent that is related to the task they maybe selected. The areas we are discussing is R & D. Your skills may be more of value in a trouble shooting situation.
In almost every response on all conversations I read in your profile you mention education as being the problem. If I might suggest, take your talent as a relentless learner to the fight for educational reform. As you say " .... to find a workable solution with a factual foundation, and I will find that solution. I haven't failed yet."
Good luck. Bob.
Chanie Monoker
I'm not sure what business you are in Bob, but in any cutting edge business that is involved with R&D (such as technology or medicine) it is the relentless learner who is at work finding the cure for cancer, sometimes spending years even decades on a single pursuit.
Why must "relentless learning" mean superficial temporary interest, by definition relentless means tenacious, not quitter or flighty?
Fritzie Reisner 100+
Chanie Monoker
My response regarding professionals is unfortunately based on experience. In my position I deal with dozens of professionals and there are only a few that I actually recommend.
(While this did compel me to begin providing workshops for professionals and write so that parents would be educated consumers, I still receive much grumbling pre-events as to why trainings are necessary when what they've been doing has been working well enough. Thank goodness I've never had anyone tell me post-event that it was a waste of their time, but more often I usually have people telling me even years later that they still apply what I've taught.)
Fritzie Reisner 100+
David Grebow
Imagine if you were an employer looking for "talent" and you could look at a number of relentless learners who had earned a Gold Certificate in your field and related areas to help you form a Relentless Learner Team optimized for success. The resume shows what you did (a historical document) while a certificate of learning would be current and indicate what you can do.
Debra Smith 200+
Addition: Now where can I help?
James Zhang 30+
Debra Smith 200+
James Zhang 30+
But I'll take whatever you got to show me :)
Debra Smith 200+
James Zhang 30+
Chanie Monoker
As a proclaimed relentless learner how can you say that 5000 responses covers what you know?!? By definition you are still learning and thus your opinions would be changing ;-)
Debra Smith 200+
James Zhang 30+
Mariah (McMillian) Bohannon
I'm in the infancy stage of putting together a liaison service that links issues presented by the gerneral public and "Relentless Learners" who are willing to use their self-taught skills to directly solve these issues.
I can see the promise of a program like David describes if it is paired with a way for the independent learners to create their own track record while earning income and using their self-taught skills in the real world.
source: personal experience
David Grebow
Great answer. And their work would be part of that learning that they would be learning about in order to do the work ... nice loop rather like a modern apprenticeship and there could be levels of achievement/rewards/awards/certificates along the way from novice onward.
Gail . 50+
David Grebow
David Grebow
James Zhang 30+
Maximilian Thomas
The second type of `Relentless Learner`is the person who finds their passion, then focuses all of their energies into becoming specialized in their passion. These are the real change makers.
So, with this in mind I think the answer becomes a little more clear.
The second group we really do not need to worry about because no matter what situation, they will rise to the top.
This leaves us with utilizing the first groups willingness to learn into direct, physical results. My answer to this would be to get to really know these people, and figure out what they are passionate about. From there you can give them the tools necessary to cultivate direct action!
James Zhang 30+
Gail . 50+
The two should work hand-in-hand. Group 1 comes up with new ideas - fields for which those who want to follow a particular passion can find inspiration.
If there were a web site where people posted seemingly unsolvable problems (business or political), and were to open it up for solutions, (being able to ask questions), I would be part of it. I am exceedingly good at that. But I wouldn't want to be used badly by a system that profits from the freely given work of others. At least give me credit to add to a resume. And if I come up with an "invention" that solves your problem, allow the patents to remain in the public domain.
I won't be anyone's slave, and I work best when money isn't involved.
James Zhang 30+
I've also had a pretty similar idea, of trying to create a social media platform for the sole purpose of fixing problems, or generating new ideas... Hmm actually I shall post that idea on TedTalks soon.
Maximilian Thomas
Maybe we could team up and create something even better than what we could individually. Please contact me if you are interested; Maxpthomas@gmail.com