TED Conversations

Arzu Aydoğan

This conversation is closed. Start a new conversation
or join one »

Are 'optical illusions' illusions?

I am fascinated with the idea of ghostly like structures or in other words, electrical objects. I think we are inclined to think that brain works linearly or only in 2D. But as you have observed, brain has its 3D built literally with neurons. So when we change our perspective from 2D to 3D, we can observe the direct relation of outside stimulus represented inside 3D brain. I think, that idea can change the way we understand the works of the brain; brain will not be that much mysterious anymore.

When Markram mentioned about moon illusion in TED Talks, I remembered something: The neurological basis of Muller-Lyer illusion tells us that the neurons stimulated by extrovert arrows are longer than the neurons stimulated by introvert arrows. That means the number of neurons fired for extrovert arrows is more than the introvert arrows. So where is the illusion? In this case there is no other algorithm interfering to perceive equal lines as different, it is physically different for the brain. And it must be physically different for the retina if there is no other interfering algorithm from eye to neuron. There is no "trick of perception". That must be exactly the same for moon illusion as I think. Just look at the brain, for a reason, may be rational or irrational, although we learn about the mystery of the illusion, it stays. Indeed there is no mystery of it, it is physically in the brain as we see it.

Related Talks:
+1
Share:
progress indicator
  • thumb

    Arzu Aydoğan

    • 0
    Jul 30 2012: Muller-Lyer Illusion is important because it is a 2 dimensional figure which can hardly be connected to anything other than the mental image of itself. Cop's documented evidence is not enough to inherit the conclusion that there are illusions as we understood them as illusions. So, an illusion is something that produces a contradictory end result with its original. The 'original' here means that the image in front of the eyes. But if we compare the neural correlate with the excited area on the retina and find no difference, can we still call it an illusion? Because, in this case it means that there is no brain activity other than the physically activated cells on the retina. And why this is important? It is extremely important because when we are trying to solve the language of the brain, we must know how the information is decoded. Can an illusion means that there exists an algorithm in the brain formed independent from the physical stimulation?
    I cannot totally agree with Cop when he says "the physical location of neurons doesn't imply that that structure is represented by those neurons (in the brain activity of it)." Yes, it is in the brain activity of course, but is this a kind of activity that is irrelevant of its physical stimuli? And if you are dealing with something that is not really real as in the case of illusions how can its variance in shape or content does not make me suspicious about their existence?
  • thumb

    Debra Smith 200+

    • 0
    Jul 25 2012: Yes, the are illusions because that is not how they really manifest in the real world. There is for example, no water on the black top road even if we all seem to see it at one point in time. Investigation of that spot demonstrates that there is no water there at all. We do have common mental structures that work the same way in most of us giving us a common experience of an illusion under specific conditions. Some of the most fascinating and controversial illusions are the hardest to explain and these include those who believe that they have been abducted by aliens (there was a similar experience in ancient Ireland with Leprichans (sp?) and for some out of body experiences (which are often coping mechanisms).
  • thumb

    Feyisayo Anjorin 50+

    • 0
    Jul 24 2012: I believe they are illussions. If someone misses the difference between a tattoo of a sickle and that of a question mark in an investigation, a lot may be overlooked.

    So, sometimes just a little difference makes an obvious difference. Optical illussions may not look like illussions if one really ponders on it. But an illussion is still what it is. An illussion.

  • george lockwood 20+

    • 0
    Jul 24 2012: Wow I will be following this and listening to the cited lecture to see what you are talking about. Good job.
  • thumb

    Christophe Cop 500+

    • 0
    TED AttendeeTEDx OrganizerAssociate
    Jul 23 2012: Illusions tend to have variance over and within persons.

    There is documented evidence
    - that people with schizophrenia they don't perceive the mask illusion
    - over time (aging) the reversed T illusion increases
    - westerners experience the Müller-Lyer illusion more strongly
    -...
    => Illusions exist, even though some people experience it differently (I see no need to question the existence of something merely because it has variance in shape or content)

    Other than that:
    * the physical location of neurons doesn't imply that that structure is represented by those neurons (in the brain activity of it).
    * there are much unknowns about our brain and it's functions (and how it works &c). You can call that mysterious, though the current explanatory models are quite good.
    * Of course, I don't think there is anything non-physical (or 'un-real') about the brain and how it operates. We surely don't need to go to the ideas of spirits or quantum-woo to get good explanations
    • thumb

      Arzu Aydoğan

      • 0
      Jul 23 2012: Thank you for your answer. I think my main mistake is putting evey illusion under one category. I must differentiate the illusions. That can help for my idea to survive. As you have stated at the end, I belive that it is possible to observe the outer reality inside the brain without the role of something immaterial. But certainly decoding this language or presentation will need a more detailed categorisation or some other thing that I don't know.
      It is great to have an opinion from someone like you within a remarkably small amount of time and also with your insight. I think that's what TED means.

  • Random Chance 30+

    • +2
    Jul 23 2012: It is not physically in the brain. It isn't anywhere. It is an illusion and we call it an image.

    Or are we somehow actually looking at our brains/minds and thinking we are looking at a reality outside ourselves that we believe exists?

    The illusion then is only a thought of an illusion. Just a brief synapse of awareness.

    Oh, I'm going to bed.
Showing all 7 comments