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Does prison work?
For a certain cohort of prisoner i.e prolific burglar,should we ignore the issues of why they commit crime or intervene and challenge?
I categorise offenders as Bad / Mad and Sad and the burglars usually fall into the Sad category.To ignore their issues and send them back onto the streets as they came in,is failing society and a backward step.
To engage with them ,deal with the issues and send them out work ready is hugely beneficial to all parties.
Reduce reoffending
Reduce number of victims
Reduce cost to taxpayer
Create a worthwhile being who could pass this on to future generations,rather than the alternative of becoming a career criminal impacting on our society in a negative way..
Terry Haynes
My last comment on your question"Does prison work"?. If you look at history you will see that prison was ment to punish not rehabilitate. That is all well and good if you are punishing people who have been violent to others. But there are a lot of people in prison for non-violent offenses. My concern is this: Alot of the prison inmates will be released sooner or later whether probation or they have done their time. The key questions is what kind of person do you release to society? And are we turning non-violent inmates into violent inmates with the current policies. In a earlier comment I mentioned ideas on how to solve this issue. We have the technology to track anyone,anywhere.We have a lot of community service that needs to be addressed ( Infastructure ). We have a large amount of non-violent inmates that could be doing these things as a way of doing their punishment instead of being locked up. That is a productive solution to over crowding and the cost and problems associated with it. Do we really want people coming out of prison that are potentially more dangerous than when they went in? In that respect would it not be more cost efficent and safer for society to have other forms of punishment than just prison which I believe is a breeding ground for chaos for society now and in the future. Major changes are needed in how we deal with all offenders. Violent and Non-Violent.
Ehis Odijie 10+
scott lee
The prison system needs to be diversified, so a wide variety of treatments and methods of rehabilitation are available for people who work in corrections. There are a lot of different reasons for why people end up in prison. Some people are desperate, some are cold calculating criminals, others get thrown in on purpose hoping for a warm place to sleep for the winter. Those who work in corrections need a wide variety of tools.
Cramming everybody into cells just makes things worse. They don't call it con college for nothing. People with mental illness get worse. Drug addicts find all the drugs they want in there with nothing else to do and end up more addicted. Gangs have even more power to intimidate and lure in people than they do on street, and the skills of crime get passed on.
There is definitely room for improvement. Rehabilitation doesn't always work but sometimes it does. Like other forms of social work, its a real art that is difficult to master, but the rewards for society are great.
Thomas Adams
So I would suggest that the greater the rate of inequalities of wealth and income widen, the greater the possible need of prisons is. Of course, prison only exacerbates this process. So from the perspective of, say, "inmate life-situation improvement", prison fails in a majority of cases. My assertions are from casual observation, nothing more! Since I was myself incarcerated, I have read extensively on the subject. I was lucky. I was born into "haves" and got in trouble getting high(morphine, cocaine) my whole life. It took over 3 decades to finally hit prison. Upon release, my family was supportive. I remained clean for 5 years, then made an informed decision to return to narcotic use. However, prison taught me the importance of doing it legally. So thru Methadone clinics, sympathetic doctors and geographical/cultural differences I remain free.
One last point about prisons. In America, they may become the only safety net available to the very poor and disenfranchised. I would be very reluctant to even consider shutting them all down. For many, you could say personal rehabilitation is a somewhat unintended consequence of prison. I say that because I believe in America prison is based on 3 faulty premises:
1) Crime is Sin
2) All but the mentally incompetent have "free will" and one's actions are "chosen" and, lastly,
3) Sinners deserve punishment
My comments only scratch the surface of the question. Does prison work? First I would want to know "For who?"
Tom
Artem Komarov
About working... yes, it works. But only for those who are convicted for 3-5 years. There's enough time to think about everything you've done. If you didn't - you're hopeless, and it's much easier to execute you because you pack a wallop to the society and it still costs something to keep you.
Juniper Blue 10+
support) if they have sustained damage to thier brain (or brain chemistry) from the trauma experienced in thier youth.
And the bottom line: if I were very hungry and saw no way to find food, I woudl be more tempted to steal fruit from a tree than if I walked by that same tree with a full belly ... (especially, if I walked by that tree as a hungry child and grew into a hungry adult without much hope of ever owning a tree of my own.)
Jeff Cable
Another aspect of the prison sentence is the need to demonstrate that society is displeased with the criminal's behaviour and one element of sentencing (the duration) is usually thought to show society's displeasure. Finally, prison is supposed to contain an element of rehabilitation and this is where the system in the UK appears to fall down.
The strongest human instinct is that of survival and criminals are clearly not considering their own survival when committing crimes. It is reasonable to suppose that their higher centres are over-riding the need to survive and so they have somehow arrived at having warped thinking processes. If this proposition has any credence, all criminal acts are acts of insanity and yet we know that greed and upbringing also play a part in criminal mentality.
Back to the laws... most of the penal code is concerned with property rights and it must have been the need to hang on to one's own property that prompted the penal code. Happily, no-one is hung today in the UK but there was time when the justifiable (if petty) theft of food, to feed a starving child who lived on our streets, would have seen the miscreant hanged.
When our public representatives stole public money, very few were prosecuted, let alone jailed. Our bankers have been cheating us on a grand scale yet jail sentences are not handed down. This double standard must anger petty criminals no end. Career criminals are set a wonderful example of how to behave by society's leaders.
Wayne Vriend
To say 'I would never do such a horrible thing if I were them,' is really to say 'I would never do such a thing because I am not them.' and leaves you and them crippled in the domain of self superiorizing comparative difference, and affords no true and lasting healing.
This doesn't make abusive behaviours OK. In fact, it makes them out to be much deeper offenses against our mutual humanity. People live and breathe out of their perception of others view and opinion of them. Our penal system at root reflects our rejection of our own humanity. That, IMO, is why it is failing, thank God. It needs to reach the end of it's natural life cycle.
We all suffer under a corrections paradigm that is truly a carry over from dark ages barbarism, and is rooted in our self punishment and rejection or ourselves.
Juniper Blue 10+
The above is a very good point, Wayne.
John Hallier
Lance Cooper
Kevin Holbrook
If they are in prison, they are not commiting crimes. Simple as that. We don't care about making him a better person, they know its wrong yet they have commited the crime. Everyone else can manage their life fine without mugging someone, they chose to. Punishment is rehabilitation.
There is a reason that they are going to prison, they broke the law. Simple. No excuses.
The fact that here in england we say "We have run out of room in prisons so we are making more crimes no jailable offences". What is that?
Thats completely the wrong way of doing it, I would rather my tax money went into building more prisons and locking every offender up. Simple, it would cost less than the damage they cause anyway, and the fact that with the public knowing that offenders are just walking around, people actually do not feel safe walking around in their community anymore. What kind of life is that, where you are made to feel weak and powerless in your own area. You should never be made to feel worthless by anyone.
The laws are there for the benifit of every other person in this country. They broke it, they lose the privilege of being in society. The fact that they get let of so easily and basically rewarded with playstations etc in prisons, means more kids are growing up, not caring because they know they will get let off.
Morton Bast 200+
Kevin Holbrook
How do you suppose we make all these criminals suddenly change their ways and become good hard working citezens?
It's nothing to do with the community they are in, they as a person, have known since day one that crime is unacceptable.
What kind of message are we sending out to the world and the population that you have to work hard in life to get the things you want, and then someone else that hasnt tried can steal them from you without concequence, and without giving you full compensation because they "Cannot afford it"?
hcdoitsu gotweed
I agree with everything you say but I believe that if you wait until the child has already learned to be remorselessly self absorbed, you will fail. Instead we must take our educational system and recreate, from its ashes, a system which encourages the individual to follow his own passions/interests wherever they may lead.
Ed Schulte 50+
Because ...."The Prison Guards become the Prisoners" ..Everytime!!!
So it "works" like a darn!!!
Stevan S.
It's contradictory that the official mantra of all western prison systems is "Rehabilitation rather than punishment", when individuals are actually being incarcerated with little real prospect of rehabilitation.
Introducing satellite institutions that could provide educational, medical or social treatment to prisoners would be a rewarding task for society. It requires intricate involvement of authorities, which is difficult when facing the current level of efficiency amongst the governing institutions in general.
Tim Meacham
Rehabilitation has shown positive results concerning recidivism (repeat offenders). When a person received rehabilitative treatment, designed for that person, the chances they will re-offend decrease. This is evidence below by the comment from John Young. However, so few of our prisons offer the type of rehabilitation required to reduce recidivism. There aren't enough workers to develop a plan for each inmate, and generic rehabilitation plans don't always work.
The last, and intentionally left out, reason for prison is justice. In the most recent, horrific case, the Aurora,CO movie massacre, the victims and victim's families will be demanding justice, and rightfully so. We use our prison system to exact justice on offenders. This, though, creates a vicious cycle: someone breaks the law and is sent to jail/prison, because they do not get the necessary rehabilitative treatment, when they get out of prison, they re-offend, and the cycle continues until the person gets a sentence that leaves them behind bars for a significant period of time, or they commit a crime so heinous that they must spend a significant amount of time in prison.
Last, more recent studies show that most people behind bars have some sort of mental health issue. Fortunately, police are being trained to identify this before arrest.
We have not, as a country, gotten this right yet. The answer is out there, but unfortunately, too many people pay too high a price while the rest of us try to find the right answer.
Juniper Blue 10+
Anyway ... The year passed and Harold was out again. He started to break into cars. One day the owner of one of the cars punched Harold in the face because he had broken into his car twice in one month. Harold had become more well associated with the law during his time in prison. Harold turned around, filed a police report and sued the guy for punching him in the face!!
So, does prison work?? Well, my neighbor has learned how to not cross the felony line ... These days, he seems to go for more petty stuff that adds up. Harold has "diversified," so to speak. (I guess that counts for something.) Harold definitely has gained a better understanding of the law and he now knows when others cross that felony line (and how to file a proper report.) ... I guess that counts for something as well. I have observed (outside my window, he is still not all that slick) that Harold is also more careful with how he steals and especially with how he SELLS "stuff" ... (Let's just call it all "stuff.")
But honestly, none of this has gotten him clean or sober, (or proper psychiatric care)These days, he just has frequent but shorter stays in the "clink." By the way,
I have offered to drive Harold to "meetings" but so far, he hasn't had the time to go. Sigh.
david young
Juniper Blue 10+
Terry Keen
Sounds like you are an up to date, and on the ball, prison officer, social worker, welfare worker, psych nurse, helper volounteer, tradesman civilian overseer, or someone in a similar capacity.
Did I hit it "right on the head", or not even close ?
The fact remains , that have seen DOZENS of good people , exactly like you, who have been, blackmailed, had their wives and children threatened, seduced into providing drugs, and even sex, for highly manipulative, career criminals, who just chew up and spit out wonderful, well intentioned people, who as well as doing their job, are GENUINELY interested in the welfare , and rehabilitation, of those inmates they work with.
After the implementation of the Equal opportunity Act in Australia, guess what, the stated goal of the Victorian (Australia) government, was 50 % of prison (uniform) staff would be FEMALE.(sexuality)
No matter how well ANY prison is run, somtimes, either for medical, or management reasons, a prisoner has to "locked up", due to an assault taking place..(quite common in prisons), or somtimes because a psychotic episode", has made a mentally ill person, extremely dagerous, to himself, staff, or other prisoners.
This may be resolved by "chemical restraint", i.e. higher than usual doses of anti-psyctic medication, prescribed by his supervising medical officer (usually a psychiatrist ), or mechanical restraint, if drugs are NOT medically authorised,i.e. Handcuffs, restraint jackets, body chains,batons, attack dogs, (in extreme situations), such as riot, deliberately lit fires, and injury of both civilian and or uniform staff.
This RARELY happens in modern Corrections, because prisoners are given LOTS, of "goodies", that can be "taken off" them, for disipliniary reasons. Canteen spends,( chocolates, hobby materials,) color T.V.'s Computers, access to the gym, pool, entertainment programs,( watch Johnny Cash in Fulsom Prison, for example.) Only the BEST behaved prisoners,got to that show !..
anthony rodriguez
Quit holding ones past by holding a felony over someones head, keeping them from getting a job is a mistake!
Then again Im sure the judges and lawyers and cops all have stock invested in the department of corrections.. It is on the stock market you know.. Its all about money. Until you can take the corruption out then things will change..
Luke Hobbs
steve freer
What is your connection with the Criminal Justice System?
Steve
Luke Hobbs
Actually I'm just some guy who works in a map shop. I spent my youth growing up with a father who traveled the world, so by the time I was 19 we'd already lived in 13 different countries. I guess seeing the world like that while my brain was developing just led me to various feelings about the human race, in that we're very simple beings trying to be complicated. It's like as a species we're scared sh*tless of the universe and we try to blanket that fear with wealth, materials, power... but it's all in our heads, imaginary. I think this is what all religions and cultures ultimately spawned from, just simply the vulnerability of feeling naked. Except some people will go to much further extremes than others.
Luke
Ian Sheane
Ian Sheane
Terry Keen
I went to California, quite a few years ago, and (somewhat reluctantly), called a few prisons by telephone. My prison manager, (Governor, in the old talk,) encouraged me to do this, and then it was a "study tour", of how prisons operated in America, and a lot of the expenses were tax deductable.
"What will I study ?" I asked him..." Who cares", was his reply. "just make something up."
So I decided to study "Suicide Prevention programs in Californian Prisons."
I then wrote a list of about 20 seemingly "intelligent" questions to ask.
When I rang California Mens Facilty, I asked to be put through to the Psychitric Unit, and spoke to the head psychiatrist. "Oh you work in XXXX prison in Victoria , Australia,"...Mr Keen , do you ?"...(Yes).
How many "clients" do you have in your psych. facility..(About 50).."Oh, that would be nice" she said.
I asked how many prison "clients" were in HER psych. facility.
"About 3,500" she said."
Oh my God I said...that is a BIG prison"
"Mr K ", she said ..."that is only HALF THE PRISON , CMF has 7,000 inmates ...The other 3,500, are just not crazy....We have 17 full time psychiatrists, 27 psychologists, as well as an untold numbers of welfare workers, social workers, medical staff and others . And that NOT include the uniform staff.!!
BIG BUSINESS..Bloody Oath..!!
In my "state of origin", the prison population, DOUBLED in the 10 years after I left,..( in 1996..) DOUBLED.from 2,000 to 4,000 !!."clients".. (i.e "crims", as we used to call them...)
With most of the prisons now being "privatised"..i.e ''run for profit" by Group 4 and Corrections Corporation of America, to name just 2....( THEY BUILD the "prison" AND staff them)..
The land is usually "donated" by the local council, for NOTHING!..( because of all the JOBS and MONEY created for the "local economy")
Corporatisation of prisons, and prisoners, FOR PROFIT...who would have thunk it...!!
Andrew Wiggin
So what do is to be done about it? Not to be inhumane, but conditions cannot be this good in prisons. For many offenders, a stay in prison is a free stay in a hotel. I am not advocating a concentration camp by any means, but rather, prison must be perceived as a punishment. Furthermore, an interest must be taken in the lives of those in these facilities. An attempt must be made to help these individuals.
Beata Stasak
http://beatastasak.hubpages.com/hub/Scattered-Images-in-My-Mind-Perception-is-everything
Terry Keen
Mad, Bad, and Sad are 3 appropriate generalisations, which I would agree with.
You seem to overlooked one other important category, those criminals who have freely CHOSEN this lifestyle, with occasional incarceration seen as nothing more than an "occupational hazard".
Conjugal visits are now allowed in many facilities , to try to maintain the integrity of the prisoners family unit.
The hours are good, about 4-5 hour work per day,....If you CHOOSE to work ...and in the newer up to date facilties, a level of comfort such as air conditioning and heating, pool tables,.. colour cable TV's in each cell... are not available to many honest citizens.
Taxpayer funded ...
(i.e.free to the prisoner) medical, dental, dietry and psychological support.
Meals if required, to meet your religious beliefs,i.e Ramadan for Muslims.
Free gym, swimming pool, playing fields and general sporting equipment . Free cable television. Free educational programs, up to and including University level.
Support from lots of well meaning individuals and organisations to assist prisoners "rehabilitation"
(The root meaning of this word is to "restore to the previous level of functional capacity"..).
In 17 years, I could count the number of prisoners I knew, who turned their lives around , on the fingers of both hands.
The rest (about 70%) are recidivists, who come and go through the "revolving door" As late as 1980 prisons around the world , had generally pretty undesirable conditions for prisoner to live in.
Now for a lot of intellectually and socially challenged individuals, prison is the BEST LIFE THEY ARE LIKELY TO HAVE.
The sadness of this sitiuation is not lost on me, but the solution to incarcerating more and more dysfunctional, and often mentally ill people certainly is.
Any ideas out there ?
steve freer
Good points well made and I don't believe there is a one cap fits all here.Personally I would have jails categorised on type of crime and the regime would reflect that.However we have to accept we are a western civilisaton whose principles and values are not to torture or kill (sometimes unfortunate in my opinion)
Because we can't ever be everything to everybody I believe to work with those recidivists who come from fractured societies is a journey worth going on,and here at HMP Leeds we are changing men from crime to taxpayer.
Ayd Asraf 30+
for prisons to be a place where it suppose to rehabilitate people whom were convicted with crimes, it should build programs that help them to get a profession and some sort of informal psychiatric treatment to help eliminating any hidden motives for the crime within the persons souls.
Also we should have the societies look to the people whom were in prison changed, so instead of always blaming them and make fun of them, treating them like they are part of a social disease, people should treat the like human beings, we all do mistakes that either we can get the punishment for , or escape with none. So we should look with tolerance and give them the second chance to be good people again. also note that i am not saying the all criminals are same, there are some kinds of crimes that needs a special handling and this should be taken care off while we are building such culture.
Jasmin Begic
Sandy S
If punishment is the focus, then it should fit the crime which means there shouldn't be cookie-cutter sentences forced onto the judges and juries.
If rehabilitation is the focus, there first needs to be honest discussions about whether perpetrators of certain crimes can or cannot be rehabilitated.
Finally, the two need to be separated. Exposing someone who can be "rehabbed" to someone who cannot is, as we see, a recipe for disaster.
Marsellla Charron
griffin tucker 10+
Enrico Petrucco 20+
Possibly including:
http://www.ted.com/talks/david_r_dow_lessons_from_death_row_inmates.html
http://www.ted.com/talks/bryan_stevenson_we_need_to_talk_about_an_injustice.html
http://www.ted.com/talks/philip_zimbardo_on_the_psychology_of_evil.html
and may be:
http://www.ted.com/talks/damon_horowitz_philosophy_in_prison.html