- Simba P.K.S
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Life after life? Whats your take?
Does life end with death? What happens then? What do you think? I believe in Jesus, in judgement day, in hell & heaven (eternal life/death). I would love to know what other people believe in!
I just want to know what TEDsters believe in, and how deeply they have thought about this topic!
Many offer various opinions... Some like Dr.Rawlings became a believer following his interactions with patients who had near death experiences!
Carl Shaw
He is a lawyer by profession and as such uses two forces; that of evidence and that of emotional presentation of that evidence. The evidence itself doesn't change however it is presented.
You sound like you are the sort of person that would listen only to evidence presented in an impartial way, such as that following a scientific experiment. I would suggest that you see through his particular presentation method and examine the evidence (from others more scientifically minded than he) that he presents.
Fear of Death
Yes, this has been a long standing argument as to why people believe in religious stuff. (But note that neither Victor, nor myself are proponents of any particular religion, we do not see the matter as a religious one)
Atom decay
Yes, science researches the material world and ONLY the material world. If you are someone brought up in this prevailing scientific paradigm then you will naturally be inclined to think that all is from the material. If the tool available is a hammer, then every problem is a nail. This material paradigm is an initial assumption on the part of science, but may not necessarily be true until tested experimentally and scientifically.
I believe, however faulty the presentation, that Victor's web site and book does present very strong evidence garnered by highly reputable scientists using scientific method, that the material assumption is incomplete.
Obey No1kinobe 50+
Hope or reason or cultural indoctrination?
What I think is that a Godlike being made us the way we are and will punish us eternally for not following his rules is a monster beyond the worst evil humans can do to each other. Lucky it is probably just an unproven myth or assumption like many other spiritual afterlife beliefs.
It is sad to think you need the fear of hell or orders from heaven to be a good person? You seem like a pretty decent smart young guy. I expect you could figure out for yourself that killing other people, stealing or giving into pleasure at the expense of your future or the feelings of others is not a great way to live. Do you really need these possible delusions or you would become completely selfish and shortsighted? At the very least there are laws in society.
Carl Shaw
This idea of an "all loving" god is quite anti-christian.
However, just because the christians are anti-christian doesn't make a god anti-christian as well.
In the materialist society we live in we believe that our origins must lie along a time-line towards a big-bang. But these thoughts only exist simply because scientists are restricting their thoughts to a material existence only. If scientists were really free to search for a knowledge (science = knowledge) fee from initial assumptions of materiality), then perhaps they might find origins lie orthogonal to the time-line.
How about if there is a god who is the source of our consciousness and we are here to learn how best to treat others (in spite of religions)?
How about if there is a god and he gets quite upset by people thinking he is going to send people to a hell type place?
Robin Lenehan
Thanks again!
Robin Lenehan
But, you've lost me a bit. From where do you get your information? Much of it is new to me and I am quite surprised by some of your statements, although not unpleasantly so. Wish we had the ability to download info. from each others brains. Scary thought really. I take that back!
Robin Lenehan
______________________
Hours & hours later, this sounds idiotic. What I meant to say is that faith has been left out of the equation. It's doubtful that a scientist will be taking faith into consideration, but would / could you?
Robin Lenehan
You could read "Journey of Souls", by Michael Newton. Look past the book cover. It is obviously designed to sell books. Super tacky. Imagining the Tenth Dimension.com is an impressive website re: the quantum world. It will also give you an inkling of where it is (one of the many places), I make the spiritual "leap" but you must look around the website. It's quite easy to get lost there because everything is so interesting. I could spend 2 weeks straight just reading theories.
A few nice people & one not so nice peep have asked me to explain myself re: life after life & reincarnation AND how I arrived there. I cannot tell you in one or two paragraphs what I attribute a lifetime of my beliefs to. I can only suggest some places to go and people to read. I am contradicting myself, I know, but it's impossible to explain who I am & that's what it comes down to.
You were not aggressive AT ALL, and I hope this comes across as politely as I intend. No sarcasm here. Best, Robin
John Dunbar 10+
What is more likely, that we live on in a conscious blissful state or that we die when our brain dies? The fear of death has been the preceptor to an amazing amount of hysteria. We must ask why this is. Is it because we as a humans seek pleasure and avoid pain? Is it the fear of the pain that precipitates death? The fear of the loss of our existence as a whole? Or is it an evolutionary trait that has evolved in mammals in order for our species to continue. The idea of heaven seems to be a fable that appeals to our innate drive to seek pleasure and avoid pain. "If you do the right thing, you will get rewarded" this isn't always true by any means. Bad things happen to good people. The idea of heaven seems disconnected with the truth of my experience and predicated on a wishful human psyche. To me, this doesn't sap the beauty of life by any means. We are all apart of something spectacular, the conditions for life to exist seem to be incredibly rare. I consider life to be an immeasurable gift and when I die I guess Ill find out the answer to this age old question.
Stewart Gault 30+
The question I think of when this is asked is, would you want to live forever?
Carl Shaw
What standard of proof would you be requiring when you say that there is none either way? There are many prominent scientists who have scientifically researched the matter of life after death and the abilities of mediums to contact such. These scientists have performed objective, repeatable tests and in spite of the potential effect on their reputation have gone on record as stating such things as "There is no possible way that this person (medium) can be operating any kind of fraud".
There is a great wealth of such tests available to the earnest seeker of truth. The quantity of evidence is overwhelming and far higher than that required in a court of law.
See www.victorzammit.com for a lawyer's take on the scientific evidence.
Stewart Gault 30+
The evidence I require changes via what you define as an afterlife.
The biggest argument against an afterlife is that fact that there's no reason for their to be one. We are composed of atoms for a period of time, then we decompose and the atoms get scattered. When science is getting ever closer to explaining reality through natural methods and physical processes why add in a spiritual element? And the answer to me is that people fear death.
Random Chance 30+
Can't take it with you. But wait, maybe you can. Maybe you can take life with you. Who knows?
One can read, study and conclude whatever it is they wish to believe, be it theological or scientific.
Absolutely none of it on either side of the issue is proof. None.
It is usually what one would like it to mean as far as proof goes and that is understandable.
But no sciences of any kind and no religion of any kind have ever proven their claims.
One very good reason why both have failed is that both could be wrong!!, rather than claiming the other is wrong and they are right.
I have pre-Earth memories. True. Since I was very young I had and still do, a very clear picture and experience of being (no pun intended) in space and looking down on planet Earth. A voice told me to go there and I said I didn't want to. It insisted (my sense of it), by repeating the idea to go there. I did.
I clearly remember my birth, the delivery, the room and what happened and can still see it. I told my mother one day and she flipped out.
I have also had ND experiences that, to this day, are the most beautiful, euphoric, peaceful, serene and secure experiences that have ever happened to me.
What do they prove? I don't know. I could say what I would like them to mean. I could say what they do mean to me but I cannot prove any of it and not only do I not need to prove any of it, no one can disprove them, nor should they even try to. As long as I don't attempt to use them to gain money without taxes, land for free and tax-free as well, or gain and have power over others simply because of what I might wish the truth to be about them.
Certainly God doesn't exist, BUT, something, something just is!
It does appear there is something more than the material or matter and now science is apparently discovering that matter itself doesn't exist. The entire unique-verse is all consciousness. It's about consciousness, not God-is-ness.
The bleach of science or the lies of religion?
Robin Lenehan
Barry Palmer 50+
When choosing between two competing versions of "the truth", science usually picks the answer that is more useful.
To the best of my knowledge, all evidence for life after life is subjective. So it is appropriate that science should take the position that we do not know. Therefore it is appropriate that governments and other public institutions should take the same view, and form no policies based on the notion that there is life after life.
For the purpose of living my own life, I have concluded that it probably does not matter. If an all powerful god put us all on this planet, he did it for a purpose. In pursing that purpose, he put us here, in this particular situation, and he gave us no choice but to deal with this situation as best we can. So I think that the best way to deal with the hereafter is to deal with the here and now. Part of our situation is the fact we have an amazing ability to think.
As for that subjective evidence, I find it convincing; I think there is life after life.
Carl Shaw
Subjectivity - The aim of scientific discovery is to remove the subjective out of the experiment.
Life after life - some famous scientists (e.g. Logi Baird) have removed the subjectivity from experiments on mediums and those that have tested them have come to the conclusion that there is no fraud involved and that there is indeed life after death.
The evidence is no longer subjective!
(see www.victorzammit.com for a lawyer's take on the objective evidence available to all)
Robin Lenehan
Bharath Kumar Kunjibettu 10+
Obey No1kinobe 50+
Hell if it is real is simply immoral. Eternal punishment for finite crimes against the rules of a divine dictator. Simply evil.
NDE is near death. Not the same as your brain being obliterated and being dead for years. I guess NDE is just a product of our brain, like a dream. But I don't know for sure.
I note some people on this site have had NDE. Most indicate it had a positive life changing impact on them.
Everyone is welcome to their beliefs but many are very speculative.
I'm not sure humans can fully comprehend the idea of eternity, even with our super ape brains. Eternal life seems frightening to me. I reckon a few hundred healthy happy years would do me, then oblivion, or perhaps a few long sleeps and check out every few thousand years or so.
Give it a few thousand years and we may stop biological aging. Maybe download our consciousness into other biological machines etc. In a few million years, let alone a billion our descendants may be quite different to us, just as we differ from our ancestors. I wonder if they will still ask this question?.
Paul Redling
Obey No1kinobe 50+
Ed Schulte 50+
wrt "experiences" and should I ..or...should I keep it to myself is
"To thine own Self be True"
what you are sharing/ experiencing is not uncommon but it must be respected always. Human Beings ( Beings conscious of being consciousness itself) are an ever evolving manifestation ....so more are experiencing what you are ...but in their own unique way of course.
It is simply the ....as one attained Being said it, "I AM" (but he was completely misunderstood.)
"I" is the "Spirit" or "BE-ing" complete and eternal.
"AM" is the "Soul", or "BE-ing-ness" . The experience evolving into the "I"-ness.
Be Well Be Present
Robin Lenehan
I notice no mention of the existence of the soul, consciousness or energy. Let's assume that we all agree they exist. Do you imagine that they all just cease to exist when we die? Energy doesn't die, right? As to the others where do you imagine they go?
Gabo Moreno 100+
Paul Redling
Colleen Steen 500+
To be offended or insulted by someones expression of what s/he genuinely believes is a choice you make for yourself.
You say..." It's all neurons firing in a sequence your brain has been trained to follow and are adapted through genetic heritage as survival instincts. Consciousness during life is just your brain's clever software for taking in information about your surroundings and executing the necessary actions"
I agree with some of this statement...neurons firing in sequence...survival instincts, consciousness, and I also agree that our brain is similar to a computer in some respects, with software for taking in information...
The part of your statement I am not connecting with is..."brain has been trained to follow"...
Are you suggesting that we ourselves train the brain? Or are you suggesting it is trained by external influence? Both? More? By "trained", do you mean programmed?
I agree with you that death is like "taking the battery out". My perception is that the energy that powers the body leaves...unplugs, so to speak:>) I believe that the body is a very intricate and interesting machine, with many complex programs, and needs energy to function.
The person you respond to DID form her own theories, based on information she has discovered, which is EXACTLY what you advise her to do! You probably ARE trying to be nice, as you say....perahps you could be a little more nice? I also believe in reincarnation, and if you choose to respond to that, a nice reply would be appreciated:>)
Robin Lenehan
Dear Paul,
You come across as if you wrote the book on life and death and their functions. How and why are you 100% positive that you are correct, with no room whatsoever for discussion, contemplation or consideration of perhaps another way to think or believe? I don't know if you're a physician or an engineer, but regardless, you know as much as the next person about death. We are all allowed our opinions and beliefs. It's what I love most about America.
I mean no offense, but why are you so angry? The last thing I want is an enemy, especially over my belief system. Please do not take this personally.
Incidentally, I did not mean to imply that quantum physics and reincarnation have a thing to do with each other. I did mean to imply that the spiritual aspect is directly connected.
If you are enraged or insulted by something as inconsequential (to you), as my opinion or belief you are going to have an awfully long, precarious life, my friend!
Imagining the Tenth Dimension . com is a great website on quantum mechanics and is not spiritual in natural, at all, promise! It is very, very interesting and you may like it.
Peter Law 30+
""Organisms are just carbon-based, ultra-complex machines with incredibly complex programming that wrote itself to survive.""
Don't you see how crazy that sounds ? JUST ultra-complex machines with INCREDIBLY COMPLEX PROGRAMMING that WROTE ITSELF to survive ?
Isn't it strange how the simple machines like fighter jets & space shuttles had to be made by smart guys with loads of expertise, but the really complex ones just made & programmed themselves. While they were at it, why didn't they leave out the die ing sub routines. IF Old GOTO START. simple enough, easy command.
:-)
Colleen Steen 500+
I also perceive the body as an incredibly complex machine...this concept doesn't seem "crazy" to me at all.
I imagine it does, however, seem crazy, to one who believes that all relevant information is in the bible. See, I don't think they knew about "carbon-based, ultra-complex machines with incredibly complex programming" when the bible was written and translated by several people over a period of many years. So, they might have described the creation of humans based on information they had in those times. If you want to stick with those descriptions it's ok, and there is no need to call other people's beliefs "crazy". They may be just a little more "updated":>)
Barry Palmer 50+
If you are comparing the expertise of human engineering teams against the expertise of four billion years of evolution, IMO evolution would be the likely winner.
Obey No1kinobe 50+
I guess once our brain stops working and breaks down the function of mind and consciousness and the structure of personality and self awareness ceases. The matter and energy does not cease to exist, its just not organised in a way that maintains mind/consciousness etc.
At one point many of the elements in our body were created in the first generation of stars. I probably share a few atoms that have been in millions of other animals. When I die and my body breaks down the atoms will continue their journey.
What makes you think our mind can exist without a brain? What makes you think that there are electrical impulses and chemical reactions and other energy related processes that are part of our mind function still organised and occurring without a brain?
This idea raises more questions than it answers. You have then to create an idea for why our energy self stays connected to the body, and maintains coherency after death and between incarnations, where it goes, where all the souls are, must be billions in reserve etc etc etc.
But I don't claim absolute certainty.
What books?
I would have though if someone had proven reincarnation there would be a noble prize or two in it.
Physics and understanding the universe and ourselves does tend to push the limits of our minds, but I honestly haven;t seen or heard any convincing evidence for reincarnation and I lived in a predominantly Buddhist country for four years..
I have heard some people with perhaps similar views making intuitive connections and parallels with aspects of physics but when you unpack it there was no proof of anything core to their supernatural beliefs.
Hope the scepticism doesn't come across as aggressive in text. But you have proposed a pretty amazing priocess with no evidence as yet.
What convinced you about reincarnation if I may ask?
Dan Geurin 10+
I know that at one time I didn't exist. (actually, I don't really know that)
I know that I exist now. (It's hard to prove)
I have never been dead, nor met anyone who has been dead.(Not that I am aware of)
This logic would lead me to believe that after I die, I will no longer exist. (Scary)
But this logic starts from an assumption that I never existed before birth. (maybe I did in another form).
If I don't know where I came from.
If I don't know if I'm really here.
I can't possibly know where I'm going.
Don Wesley 50+
I will be 80, in a few months and have always believed in Christ, since my days, as a child in the Crib.
Kevin Jacobson
Colleen Steen 500+
I'm kind of with you, in that I believe we are all connected by energy, that energy is a part of consciousness, and that the energy that powers the body, moves on after the body dies. I'm learning from our science minded tedsters, that it might not be electrical energy, but rather a different kind of energy? What do you think about this?
I'm curious to know what you mean by your last statement? I don't understand it.
"...the individual organizations of electric energy may be destroyed by electromagnetic interference".
Kevin Jacobson
What I mean by my last statement is basically the remaining electrical energy of out bodies may be distorted by other sources of electromagnetic radiation such as microwaves, power lines, computers, ect. AKA, electromagnetic interference.
Colleen Steen 500+
OK...thanks....I think I'm getting your meaning. I agree that the energy of our body may be distorted by other sources that you mention...that seems very logical, and insightful on your part. What do you think some of the observable evidence of this distortion may be?
BTW, have you noticed the site "Are there any teens on this site?" There are some teens looking to connect with other teens, you've been participating on TED quite a bit and could maybe help them connect? I honestly cannot believe you are a teen because your comments are so insightful and wise. Kudos to you my young friend:>)
Kevin Jacobson
Oh, and thanks for the compliment :)
Treejaa ***
The point is: I have difficulty believing that Someone is going to decide whether I was 'good' or 'bad'. And why decide that after this one life?
If you would have only one life before the decision is taken, then what about babies who die: they did not have the time to be 'good' or 'bad'. Saying that they go straight to heaven would mean one wasted life (and maybe more, depending on how the parents cope with the loss). Saying that the baby died was a punishment for the parents means that you get punished *before* you die, and worse, that a life can be used as a tool to punish/reward other humans. Saying that it was just 'bad luck' means that some people have a lot of bad luck while others live a long and happy life without too much struggles, which makes it easier to be 'good'.
Then there are people saying that you live several lives before Judgement Day, in which case the current life would already be a reward or punishment for your behaviour in previous lives. So actually, there would be intermediate judgements, after every life.
It's in any case too complex for my little mind, but I just can't believe in such a Judge. So that makes me an agnostic.
Robin Lenehan
If you do your research you may be surprised to find some very interesting case studies on reincarnation, life after death, etc. There are many well-written books on the subject. Go to your local library or a good book store.
I work in Hospice nursing and I have seen some amazing things in my 13 years of work. Experiences that prove to me that life certainly does not stop here. I have also had my own personal experiences, outside of Hospice. I had a "dream" that an aunt was saying goodbye to me. She was explaining that her time was finished on earth and she was leaving to be with my mother (who had passed the year before), and I should not be sad, but happy for her. I woke the next morning to a phone call that she had died. I was not told of her illness and lived 2 hours away from my home where she lived while I was attending college. I had absolutely no way of knowing she was ill as my family was protecting me after my mother's death, which had been an extraordinarily difficult time for me.
Do your homework. You may find your own answers if you read up.
Ed Schulte 50+
"Make your Self your homework and Do IT!!"
and yes every HUman returns "home" to its "source of infinite Life" during deep sleep ...the very same No -time/ space/place...they enter when their Etheric body completes separation from the material body, goes through its "re-cycling process" and (if still required/desired) eventually emanates out into another HUman material form again.
By the Bye ....Ty for sharing your (Ahhh "screw it") Light.
Be Well, Be Present
Comment deleted
Ed Schulte 50+
The only content I can add here
wrt "experiences" and should I ..or...should I keep it to myself is
"To thine own Self be True"
what you are sharing/ experiencing is not uncommon but it must be respected always. Human Beings ( Beings conscious of being consciousness itself) are an ever evolving manifestation ....so more are experiencing what you are ...but in their own unique way of course.
It is simply the ....as one attained Being said it, "I AM" (but he was completely misunderstood.)
"I" is the "Spirit" or "BE-ing" complete and eternal.
"AM" is the "Soul", or "BE-ing-ness" . The experience evolving into the "I"-ness.
Be Well Be Present
Robin Lenehan
I've made a mess of our comments. Below, somewhere, I have attempted to "fix things". If you read up on a few of our comments you may see what I mean.
AND THIS ONE MAY BE MISPLACED, BUT DELIBERATE:
I've just re-read your comment below & the quote. Well, I added a bit. "I AM THAT" and "I AM THAT". What was your reference, other than the obvious. Thank you. :)
Will I EVER get this right?!!!!!!
Ed Schulte 50+
and if you haven't noticed completely yet ....this TED forum is set up to NOT be a continuing conversation system...more of a "hit and run" so conversation topics such as yours do.. yes ...get cut off/ messy/ ets etc
"I AM THAT" is a ref to the better know "I AM" but the added "THAT" give recognition to the knowing that ....pointer...
...As I note Adriaan made with you ......HUmans do not "Reincarnate"......they "Incarnate" into lower form ( the so called "material" "psychical" and noetical" ) or bodies many times..
...The past "New Agers" got a hold of some unscrupulous eastern teachers out to make a $buck$ and confusion around "Reincarnation" still fills bookshelves.
Very simply HUmans are a direct ray of Non-material / Non-Reflected Light and NEVER disconnected from that Light source. It is in us and we are in it. That is the "THAT" ...in the quate.
Just because we / the emanations/ take on "Bodily" form ...which has the capacity of "intellect" gain experiences while in "form" and then are stripped of those forms AND all Non-truthful experiences as we/the emanation returns to it source... doesn't mean we "die". We do keep the TRUTHFUL experiences we have gained. That was is the purpose of HUman manifestation, so the source gains knowledge of ITSELF.
This cycle continues right through to Theosis and after that we can continue to take on form in the 3 bodies ..if we chose to.. That is the "THAT" , simple , very simple.
The Sufi say it best , "What have you ever lost by Dying?"
Obey No1kinobe 50+
Big step from this to think that without the structure and active processes in our brains that some coherent self energy matrix continues.
Brian Gonsalves
Gabo Moreno 100+
Anyway, so far I have not seen or heard of any convincing evidence that there could be anything else. Most gods I have heard of are nonsensical. The Christian one quite so. Thus, the gods and the religions attached to them will not be an avenue to convince me that there's an after life.
Ed Schulte 50+
The opposite of death is "birth"
no "after" definition required ....because there was not beginning ..nor is there an "end" or "death" .
I won't be checking out Dr Rawlings but I trust that some of him patients confirmed to him that HUmans where not "created" as is the popular concept among some current religions ....We are emanated out of source and a sustained ray of it.
Simba P.K.S
Frans Kellner 100+
Simba P.K.S
Whats your take on life after life?
Ed Schulte 50+
yes re "religion"
but it is not the fault of the of their source/ point of contact / what the Human ego does with their Basic (and All Ways simple0 pointers. Such is the nature of the slow progression of Consciousness up the scale of 'Relative Truth' ( by the bye what Daskalos constructs is not Directly related to any religion ...it uses many sources...the christian appearance is more due to his being located in Christian Cyprus and was must often approached with Christian "contexts)
Be Well Be Present
Ed Schulte 50+
HUman BEing to uncover for it's Self...after all it is THAT
Simba P.K.S
Frans Kellner 100+
I looked into the teachings of Daskalos.
It looks fine to me though I don't like they do link everything up to Christianity.
You need less words to see direct without referring to religious traditions; no matter how many good things they may present, they carry a lot of distortions as well.
Frans Kellner 100+
Try to focus on being itself, not being this or that for everything you can put a name onto is an ever changing moment that we cast in form. Only being doesn't change for it is (cosmic) awareness of self.
Self, being aware and by this ever creating a new form, changing (action/reaction) what we memorize to construct time but really there is no past nor future, only present.
Being born is to identify with a living process, a world within our totality of being until the body falls apart and decomposes.
Retreating from that body, larger parts of being become within vision for what you are, is what is in focus and while living our senses attract and narrow our focus.
Without a body everything is possible.
New born children that are not yet aware of their mortal body can drift off into other life’s that they live in former times. It helps to remember how to take form in this new life they've started.
Leaving the body can bring confusion in many ways if you have no idea about yourself as most people today do not have.
You can cling to your body or what's left of it or to loved ones from your past life. You can have all kinds of imagery according to what you have been taught to believe, etc.
If there's no confusion but peace you can enter another life. New impressions will strip your memory as the senses become active and focused. You become another you.
Last but not least you can become what you are which is light as the sunlight, pure conscious and aware of all you've ever been from the dawn of time.
Whatever happens depends highly on the mental state you’re in when you die.
Simba P.K.S
That was something, though I can't fully grasp your idea with my limited knowledge... :)
Ed Schulte 50+
your summary reads very much in the "light" of The Researchers of Truth / Daskalos
Frans Kellner 100+
Please don't grasp it but see for yourself in time.
Like anyone you possess all the knowledge necessary. It just has to emerge to the surface to be seen.
Gerald O'brian 50+
Unless of course we suppose that our thoughts are originated elsewhere. This is, of course, in conflict with any neurological knowledge we have. And someone defending that idea would need to provide REALLY convincing material.
Barry Palmer 50+
But in fact we all accept many things as true that have not passed the rigorous criteria of science. I have seen, heard, read and sensed myself many examples of subjective evidence that our five senses are not comprehensive. IMO, much more is going on in this universe than we can sense with our five senses. And the 'scientific' notion that our five senses are comprehensive and sufficient to understand our universe is not at all scientific, it is simply an assumption. For all we know, dark matter may not be dark at all. If we had a sense organ that could 'see' the radiations from dark matter, it might be brighter than ten suns. Quite simply, we can never be sure about what might be going on all about us that is undetectable by our five senses.
When you consider that our ignorance is at least as great as our knowledge, the notion that our thoughts originate from a non-material part of us is just as likely as the notion that our material brain, which is just a bunch of complex chemical reactions, can produce creativity, religious rapture, parental love, and any number of other experiences that certainly seem to transcend our physical existence.
You might want to reevaluate your criteria for the evidence needed, and do some reading about people's experiences that cannot be explained by the 'scientific' world view.
Gerald O'brian 50+
Barry Palmer 50+
I am hoping to start a separate discussion about 'certainty' but for just one example, I think we can be sure about math because it is a completely contained system of logic. We cannot be absolutely sure that the math is an accurate model of the real world; that is where the discussion gets interesting.
Hyun Kim
Erik Richardson 500+
What would count as evidence-for you-that the mind is a 4-d (actually higher, but this works for now) object, rather than merely a 3-d one?
Hyun Kim
Ed Schulte 50+
how does Love fit into your theory?
Lejan . 30+
I like the idea of rebirth by choice, but I haven't found enough evidence so far if this could be.
Simba P.K.S
Lejan . 30+
The 'karma' principle as much as I know about it seems to leave 'me' no free choice, as it summs up good and bad deeds to determine my new 'level' on earth.
In Buddhism I have no free choice either, as I could only 'break' the circle by gaining enlightenment
in at least one life to get out of the circle.
So what I like is the idea, that if rebirth was possible it would be only 'my' choice to take it or leave it and that no other mechanism was able to rule against 'my' decision.
This decision, of course, could only be made after 'death' and I assume that in that state I would also know about the alternative if I would choose against rebirth.
Became it understandable what my idea is?
Simba P.K.S
Even though your comment is fictional, I am amused about your novel approach. BTW,What would you choose? To have a re-birth or not to? And to add to the story, do you expect some superpower to ask you what your choice is?
What do you make of the NDE? Tricks played by human mind or genuine proof of something after life, or even better, clueless? 8-)
Lejan . 30+
I can not anticipate what I would choose, as I have no clue about any given framework conditions at that time yet, so we'll see...
Regarding any 'superpower', no, I do not expect any but the one we all are already part of. So no creator, no god, I hope, as I would have trouble to trust such creatures.
As I did not have any NDE so far, I can only assume its origin. Given the complexity of our human brain, I would not be surprised if it was capable to project NDE's as they are reported. Especially in its process of 'shutting down' more or less slowly. To me this seems similar to people who reported to have left their bodys in the state of 'trance' or under the use of drugs. Therefore I have my doubts that those experiences can be taken as a valid glimpse into the 'afterlife'.
So one day we'll all know or, literally, couldn't care less about it...
Simba P.K.S
I don't know anything much on NDE. But, I believe in heaven and hell. Because I trust the Bible... :)
Lejan . 30+
Simba P.K.S
Adriaan Braam 20+
This concept of an afterlife totally makes sense to me, in whatever I see done and see happen around me. It brings purpose to the smallest thought and every single action
We are in the womb to build and develop a physical body for this physical life. Now we are in a spiritual womb to build and develop a spiritual body for the next, spiritual, life.
This is a small version of the whole book but it tells us what happens when our body dies, if you're interested.
http://sites.google.com/site/liveitupspiritually/home/writings/Heaven-and-Hell_Short.pdf?attredirects=0
Robin Lenehan
Adriaan Braam 20+
Feel free to look at anything on my website and use it.
http://webhome.idirect.com/~abraam/
One book I'd like to suggest from there is The Spiritual World.
http://webhome.idirect.com/~abraam/documents/TheSpiritualWorld.pdf
Great to hear from you.
Robin Lenehan
Thank you! You sound so positive, kind and open-minded.
I love that although you don't believe in reincarnation you're still open to reading about it. This book will be food for thought at the very least.
Please let me know how it strikes you. I'll be curious to know.
We don't necessarily have to share the same beliefs to gain knowledge.
I hope you enjoy it!!! Best, Robin
Adriaan Braam 20+
Every good person, of whatever religion, goes to heaven.
No one is born for hell, but we go to heaven or hell depending on the life we lead, the things we do and why.
My personal motto is: If, whatever you believe makes you more like an angel, believe it! (and I'm not talking about acquiring wings :)
Had a busy day but will start reading now.