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ömer bozkurt

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TED made me believe something!

I was in 15 , I read an opinion about god.The opinion's owner is "Said Nursi"
He says :
"I believe in God. And human's nature is my proof. There is a impetus in human's nature.All humans think and must think about god, and already , all of them do.
This impetus make us think about god and search for it and find out who's it.There is a god so we search it , we search for a god because this impetus make us search it , and this impetus exists because there is a god.
In summary, God sent us this world and wanted from us to find itself. And we do , we are trying to pass this exam , the main exam for all.some people pass it , some cant pass it, but that is obvious ; everyone enters this exam , no another way.If someone is sent to this world and has a soul , s/he search for god, can't block and control that impetus.This is human's nature so God is real.And god create a reason to activate this impetus. "(this is not the orginal writing, i memorized the meaning and i wrote it in english, here)
I read , I thought, I checked myself, I couldnt find any impetus or feeling like that.
I thought he was wrong , if i have no that impetus, I am not in that exam, probably the other people dont have that.
I spent my time playing call of duty, it was funnier than searching who is god.
But now 5 years later, I had a TED account a few days ago, I entered this site, while I was scanning the new quetions, I saw something on left "POPULARTOPİCS" and under it "GOD". I clicked, the first question was that " WHO İS GOD?"
I read and saw many comment and opinion.
I noticed ,actually, all these people searching for god.I remembered "said nursi" and his word.And suddenly, with an interesting feeling or something like that, I thought God, I wanted to search, know and learn more details about God.
Now I think Said is right, I'm in an exam, having a TED account is the reason, now I'm waiting for night to watch the stars to understand the God better.
What do you think?Is he right?am I on right way?

Topics: God life
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    Jul 14 2012: Omer,

    The fact that many people believe in or search for a god or goddess does not prove a god.

    It is not hard evidence for a god. That is just your personal interpretation of the facts.

    My best guess is our mind has evolved to seek agency and to understand causality as this provided survival benefits. Just because we all might want to check it out if anyone is in the house when we it creak in the night does not mean there are gods of house creaking. Even a dog growls if it hears a branch break or during a storm. The assumption of agency helped our survival but also misfires or is misused by the religious.

    Like so many people you conjure rationales to reinforce your beliefs.

    Your claim that the search for god proves god is no better than the search for ghosts proves ghosts
    • Jul 14 2012: I asked, is the universe expanding? just Yes or No
      And when we found out it?If it is expanding.
      my answers are Yes it is expanding and We discovered it in 20th century.And now in 21th, we are completely sure it is expanding. Do you agree, am I right?
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        Jul 14 2012: It's expanding exponentially. And I really doubt we'll find four more planets in our solar system, like if we only found Pluto a hundred odd years ago and it's only a dwarf planet and just how far away it is, well then by my line of reason I think we'd have seen another planet by now, either by sight or by reflecting radio waves/ xrays.
        • Jul 14 2012: Good.We agrred.Universe is expanding and we found out it a time ago.

          Now, go to islamic art museum in istanbul, take an old koran, such as you can choose "Osman's hand writing koran",then get it by a carbon dating, you will be sure on its age, it will be almost 1400 years. by science we can find out that the book exist for almost 1400 years.Then open and read it.In "zariyat 47" Allah says "we are expanding the universe" I am sure you will say "No, not Allah, and ....." , while reading this.Ok.No problem.But I dont care it.The issue is that, when we read the sentence, we can understand the universe is expanding. 1400 years ago, a meaning (universe is expanding) was meantioned.It is clear. 1400 years ago, expanding of universe was known.just go to the museum, see museum's results of the carbon dating, or have a permission to get the book test again.According to today's science 1400 years ago, people, technology, science were undeveloped.How can a man made koran know expanding of universe?or osman?or another human?if all the humans gathered 1400 years ago,could they find out the expanding of universe?without technology or science?Then 3 ways seen;1) Allah exists and create the koran.2)Osman were a god or something like that(but there were a god on earth called osman,people saw him but didnt believe he was a god,or he died like a helpless human.)3) science and techonolgy were as good as today's(but they were using hand writing as a hobby, not using computers)

          You know, I was searching a god by my logic,I proved the Allah to myself,I chose "1)" . And you choose one of them or just ignore.
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          Jul 15 2012: Omer,

          If it says the universe is expanding, you don't know if they mean it in the way we think the universe is expanding. It doesn't prove the whole book is correct. Even if it says the earth is round and revolves around the sun. That does not make all the claims in it correct, especially the unverifiable ones.

          I guess it it implies humans were created, and yet we evolved. I guess it endorses slavery and polygamy, Female subservience and our culture has evolved past this medieval concepts.

          It is pretty poor logic to find something in a huge book match it to something scientific and then assume the whole thing is correct.

          Does it also say the universe is 14 billion years old? Now that would be impressive, but still not prove the supernatural claims. More likely aliens than gods.
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        Jul 14 2012: What now ömer? WIll you misinterpret the bible's "extend like a tent" to mean that the universe is expanding? If so, do you know what the word "eisegesis" means?
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          Jul 15 2012: I get what you're saying Gabo, a tent expands until it's fully erected etc etc, wouldn't it be nice if these ancient writers mentioned that that was what they meant instead of hoping future generations would realise it to mean what it means and not what they want it to mean.
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          Jul 16 2012: ...
          I think you mean exegesis Gabo.

          :-)
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        Jul 14 2012: Omer a lot of different versions came up when you google that passage, they either talk about man/ "we" expanding the universe or by man expanding his skills/ abilities the universe then expands somehow. Now I think you've maybe read a little too deeply into that. And I don't get why some god would tell man the universe is expanding and then not explain why? There's no mention of dark energy nothing, so for me there's lots of different interpretations, I was actually on a site which listed at least a 100 different interpretations all from different versions of the Quran.
        • Jul 14 2012: The expected comment has come. I would write this before but you know 2000characters limit.
          I usually dont use google for these important things, I have a wide library.I dont know you know arabic or not.But read and learn and know this.Arabic is the most powerful language in world.Technically or as an art or on other topics, it is the best.Using of arabic is a kind of art.We call it "belagat".Being very good at belagat can take whole your life.But if you achieve, you can write a "tefsir".I will not give you too much details.when a wiritng were written with impeccable belagat, It can give you many different
          meanings(yes you can write a sentence in english which has different meanings but you can't reach 300 or more different meanings)But it has a interesting feature,if you can achieve, none of the meanings conflict eachother and all of the meanings can be completely different and true.The koran was written with an impeccable belagat.I mean, a sentence from Koran can give you even 300 meanings, no conflict with another sentence or meaning, no a wrong meaning. You can obey, believe, accept and do what the sentence says without any doubt.*(This is another evidence of Allah.Except a god, no one can create a sentence like that*{in bakara 24, Allah meantions "all the people gather, and try to create a sentence like in koran,impossible, you can't.*[if you wish, learn arabic, improve yourself in belagat, create an impeccable sentence,like in koran, then I will accept you as a god*(I want at least 200 different meanings and none of them will be a bad meaning.-It will be difficult to choose only a few words from 1.5 million words-)]})***I didnt give too much details, just a small feature of belagat. If you want create an "Ayet(sentence of koran)" or understand the koran without "tefsir", you will encounter many different, difficult but incredible features of belagat(I only talked about versions)will continue in next comment
        • Jul 14 2012: *** As to "tefsir" it means explaination of koran. to write a tefsir you must be the best in belagat and other islamic technics and arts.thanks for Allah we have many tefsirs, and we can accept all of them, having too much version isnt a problem.tefsirs include too much page because whole koran was written with an impeccable belagat and so deep. I have "ibn-i kesir 's tefsir" it is almost 8500 pages but koran is 600 pages.It is clear.Dont use translating, use tefsirs.I think,now, we can accept all the meanings but, focus on the "universe is expanding" to prove Allah.If you arent satisfied,(the tefsirs have been written for almost 1400 years by "Alim"(Alim is someone who dedicated his life to understanding islam, someone who analyses the entire islam by science,logic or other technics like science.) you can find an old tefsir (includes meaning of "universe is expanding") in the same museum (or opposite building),you can get it carbon dating, you will be sure someone knew expanding of universe before today's science.And it must be a Allah.I must chose "1)" again.And as to your question, a common question,. Allah gives news from future or past,These are evidence of its existence,arent they?Allah prove itself, and only Allah can do,I cant prove it, or another cant.But of course Allah dont need to prove itself, but we need.We need some tips or lights to find Allah.Imagine yourself in highschool in an exam, with a difficult question; firstly teacher gives you some data, then asks the question, and you process them in your mind, give an answer or choose one of the choices.The life is the exam-the tips are the evidence of Allah,Koran, The universe etc...(universe is a book but you must know how to read)-The question is "are there a god?"**now link them**-And one of the choices (And of course the most logical one) is "1)" Allah exists. will continue in next comment
        • Jul 14 2012: **( if you still have questions, please learn whole islam, you dont lose anything,forget what you know about it then learn islam completely without prejudice, dont take the risk, but you must see the entire picture, when you did I swear to Allah, whole building will be done, it will satisfy both your brain and your heart.No doubt.Only you can do it, no one can help you completely in that situation.If anyone may have made you believe in god, then would the exam(the world life) have an importance?without spending energy you cant pass the exam.)**Thank you.(completed)
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        Jul 15 2012: ........

        Psalm 104:2 (KJV)
        Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:
        Isaiah 40:22 (KJV)
        It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
        Isaiah 42:5 (KJV)
        Thus saith God the Lord , he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:
        Isaiah 44:24 (KJV)
        Thus saith the Lord , thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things ; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
        Isaiah 45:12 (KJV)
        I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.
        Isaiah 51:13 (KJV)
        And forgettest the Lord thy maker, that hath stretched forth the heavens, and laid the foundations of the earth; and hast feared continually every day because of the fury of the oppressor, as if he were ready to destroy? and where is the fury of the oppressor?
        Jeremiah 10:12 (KJV)
        He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion.
        Zechariah 12:1 (KJV)
        The burden of the word of the Lord for Israel, saith the Lord , which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
        Wonder where the Koran got it ?
        :-)
        • Jul 15 2012: Without believing the other books, I cant be a muslim.I tried to tell islam's opinion for other religions please read (maybe character limit blocked me but I tried to make my best) http://www.ted.com/conversations/12567/life_after_life_whats_your_ta.html?c=495461
          And please answer, if you know. And please dont ask " where the Koran got it?" Like the other Books, koran got it from Allah.
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          Jul 15 2012: Still doesn't prove anything else in the book, also it doesn't say anything about continuous expansion and it most likely is just a nice way of saying created, and yet it still talks about a 6000 year old earth.
          Further notice, in ancient Greece Democritus determined that the world should be made of atoms and Anaximander also suggested that humans evolved and weren't created this is all in ancient Greece! They'd no evidence for it but they wrote it down anyway, though they did reach these ideas logically.Though imagine if in the same book they wrote about a belief in god and then mistakenly 2000 years later humans connected a few dots in error and determined that a god told them this and how wonderful it is because it agrees with modern science? I think you see where this is going.
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          Jul 15 2012: Stewart,

          Also read those Bible quotes in their context, this just means that the heavens were extended like a tent above the Earth. People's of those times believed that the heavens were like a curtain or a tent. A tent does not expand. Both Christians and Muslims entertain themselves reinterpreting their books to mean what they don't mean in the very same way those who read their horoscopes in the newspaper find them to be so accurate. Try and help any of them to figure out what these passages actually mean. They will never admit their mistake. They will rather believe that tents expand continuously like the universe does, rather that extend (which is not the same, but they happily take extend for expand to make their desires for Biblical and Koranic science feel credible) to their proper shape and size.
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        Jul 15 2012: Omer there's a few problems with your logic on arabic. Firstly it sounds a lot like Chinese calligraphy so by being able to either say one word many different ways or many words one way it doesn't make the language any more special than any other language.
        Also to me the whole point of language in and of itself is to clearly convey messages so we can communicate. So by being able to read 300 different meanings from one sentence, firstly it doesn't impress me, and secondly makes me think what is the point? And as a third point, surely by making a book with 300 different meanings this would be Allah's greatest regret if this god does exist. It must feel guilt for the horrible atrocities done in the name of this book and all because someone read it differently than someone else. Do you think this might at all have influenced every single suicide bomber if a part of the koran can be translated into saying, kill the infidels? And if this god does exist, and doesn't feel remorse for the horrible wickedness and horrible injustice then not only do I not believe in it, but I don't even want it to be true. To wish this to be true is to wish to live as an abject slave carrying out the will of a divine North Korea. I'm glad there is no evidence at all to support the idea a god exists.
        Further notice, in ancient Greece Democritus determined that the world should be made of atoms and Anaximander also suggested that humans evolved and weren't created this is all in ancient Greece! They'd no evidence for it but they wrote it down anyway, though they did reach these ideas logically.Though imagine if in the same book they wrote about a belief in god and then mistakenly 2000 years later humans connected a few dots in error and determined that a god told them this and how wonderful it is because it agrees with modern science? I think you see where this is going.
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        Jul 15 2012: The Koran does not say what you said ömer,

        "[Zariyat 51:47] And We have built the heaven with Hands (the Divine Power), and it is We Who give the expanse."

        So, this means that "they" give it is expanse (its size), not that the heavens are expanding. That's quite the difference. As I predicted, you just reinterpret it to mean something it does not mean. Eisegesis. Only of the Koran instead of the Bible. Peter did the very same thing above with the Bible. People who read their horoscopes in the newspaper do the very same thing.

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