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ömer bozkurt

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TED made me believe something!

I was in 15 , I read an opinion about god.The opinion's owner is "Said Nursi"
He says :
"I believe in God. And human's nature is my proof. There is a impetus in human's nature.All humans think and must think about god, and already , all of them do.
This impetus make us think about god and search for it and find out who's it.There is a god so we search it , we search for a god because this impetus make us search it , and this impetus exists because there is a god.
In summary, God sent us this world and wanted from us to find itself. And we do , we are trying to pass this exam , the main exam for all.some people pass it , some cant pass it, but that is obvious ; everyone enters this exam , no another way.If someone is sent to this world and has a soul , s/he search for god, can't block and control that impetus.This is human's nature so God is real.And god create a reason to activate this impetus. "(this is not the orginal writing, i memorized the meaning and i wrote it in english, here)
I read , I thought, I checked myself, I couldnt find any impetus or feeling like that.
I thought he was wrong , if i have no that impetus, I am not in that exam, probably the other people dont have that.
I spent my time playing call of duty, it was funnier than searching who is god.
But now 5 years later, I had a TED account a few days ago, I entered this site, while I was scanning the new quetions, I saw something on left "POPULARTOPİCS" and under it "GOD". I clicked, the first question was that " WHO İS GOD?"
I read and saw many comment and opinion.
I noticed ,actually, all these people searching for god.I remembered "said nursi" and his word.And suddenly, with an interesting feeling or something like that, I thought God, I wanted to search, know and learn more details about God.
Now I think Said is right, I'm in an exam, having a TED account is the reason, now I'm waiting for night to watch the stars to understand the God better.
What do you think?Is he right?am I on right way?

Topics: God life
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  • Jul 15 2012: TED made me believe that all people are not brain dead. I beleive that there are people out there who have active minds and are networking to learn new things from other people with active minds
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    Jul 11 2012: Human nature nothing to do with evolution then? It ignores the fact that we see morality and justice in other apes and some monkeys, there's actually TED talk about it.
    And mainly humans talk about god because of the history of it, created by man, wielded by man to do good and evil.
    And what about the variety of gods? How do you know if you settle on the "right" one.
    And you can believe what you want, anyone can, but don't (And I'm not saying you do) tell everyone else it's true unless you can prove it.
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    Jul 11 2012: Good luck in whatever you may find in your quest if you go on it.

    Personally I don't think Said Nursi is right but by what he said I can tell that he believed in a God.
    I don't, so therefore my interpretation of this 'human urge' differs from his.

    Your last question I render rhetorical, as you yourself should be the only one to answer it.
    • Jul 11 2012: hmmm.. You dont believe in god then you failed that exam according to said, but i think you dont believe in that exam.Good.
      I saw everywhere your comments , you are very fast, and I can infer that you are very clever. Of course, meanings of your comments affected my this opinion.
      Please tell me what is your opinion about life or god or etc..
      I really wonder how you explain many questions which were explained by relegions everywhere?
      Due to just curiosity, I am always open for new opinions.
      share me your life philosophy.
      And answer these, please;
      Has something ever forced you believe a God?have you ever experienced a urge like that?
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        Jul 11 2012: And hopefully it will not be the last exam I will fail. :o)

        And to answer your question:

        The Catholic Church once forced me to believe in their god. They failed and no other force occured to me ever since. Also I never felt any urge to believe in something 'high' as I already knew from young age on that I already was part of something that big, that my mind would never be able to understand it anyway. This feeling I have when I look at the stars at night. Yet it never frightened me, as it is part of my home, my origin. There is no discomfort in me by the fact, that I am not able to answer my questions about my meaning and the meaning of my origin and therefore I have no need to create a creator to make things more plausible, as I accept that they may not be plausible at all. This is my conclusion, just mine, which I only share if I am asked for it, just like you did.
        I also have no urge to find people who are sharing this view of mine, as I see no point in grouping around such thoughts. Due to this I get suspicious at times on peoples true agenda if they are actually encouraging other people to believe in 'the very same', and I am getting alerted if some of them even claim to have 'the right' and 'only' answer to something. By this most religions became quite suspicious to me and I found out, that if I would judge them on their words compared to their actions, the result would not be what I had expected. I don't mind anyone who believes in a god, that*s their and non of my business. Yet I do speak my mind if they start to manipulate other minds in their behalf or to missionize, as it has not proven right or good to do so in the past and today.
        Maybe I am lacking some sort of an 'collective gene' on this topic, but unlike other areas, statistics just doesn't work for me here...

        So for any of your quests to those fundamental questions, I wish you good luck and that you may find whatever serves your mind and heart best.
        • Jul 11 2012: Thank you and Thank you.
          I learned many things from your comments,much than you suppose.
          So I love TED. =)
          I want to add ; I didnt want to claim anything, and I also get angry when someone is trying to missionize.
          Let me summarize, keep using your brain to find the facts and the truths and dont say "exactly, this is the truth" until when your logic and your heart completely agree on the same opinion.Then I think, we can believe it without any doubt. =) I will do so. =)
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    Jul 25 2012: TED is God, a Reminder that we all have the choice between good and evil and the choices we make prove that we are humans in the Image of a Creator in which all our minds retain what is our Creator, God. we SHARE KNOWLEDGE, this allows us to document, retain, grow, develop, discuss, communicate, learn, make mistakes, progress, move forward, protect our earth & its animals, and be the superior life forms we were put on this earth to be. We as humans have the Fruit of Knowledge and the forbidden Fruit with in all our heads and God is the drive that overcomes our will to live and morals and speaks to us through our conscious minds, that is our Spirit and only we can choose what to ignore believe or make of what our bodies do and our minds think. that is LIFE.
  • Jul 16 2012: TED just reminded me said and his word.That was only a spark.I was already believing in God.Due to TED I started to think about god.I must use my logic in finding a God, so I can prove the God to myself and improve my faith.As to promoting my own believes, why everyone is supposing I am trying that?If someone isnt searching for your beliefs or isnt asking for it, it is really very bad idea that is "missionize them". Trying to make someone to believe your beliefs -if the topic is religion or god- can be very dangerous, people may get far from god instead of getting close to God.Everyone must know that; Except God, no one can prove the God to another completely,if we were able to do it, human's main purpose would have no importance.Believing in god needs some diffculties: firstly God must give some light , some opportunities, some curious then human must search it.If I try "proving God to someone" in wrong time, It can close the last gate completely.
    Without reason I dont need to try make someone believe in god, And the reason can be only that if someone ask you for your beliefs.But I think sharing your opinions or experiences mustn't be a problem.On the other hand said says " All of your words must be the truth,But all of your truths mustn't be your word!"
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      Jul 16 2012: OK .ömer...good start.
      TED "reminded" you of something....TED did not make you believe something.

      It is very clear that you were "already believing in God". I agree with you that it is good to find logic in a belief, and to discover something, we need to be open minded. It does not appear that you are open minded to the possibility that there may not be a god. So, it is clear that you are trying to improve your faith, as you say. You are trying to reinforce your existing faith, rather than trying to find logic. That is why people are questioning your motive for starting this thread. There is nothing wrong with trying to reinforce your beliefs, and it is not necessary to do that with contradicting intention.

      Simply start a conversation that clearly says "I am trying to reinforce my existing beliefs". You don't need to go around in circles to do that! I totally agree...it is bad idea to "missionize" or "try to make someone to believe your beliefs". We DO all know that, which is why your intent is being questioned. You are absolutey right..."If I try "proving God to someone" in wrong time, It can close the last gate completely".

      Fundamentalists/extremists/religious enthusiasts "close the last gate completely", and do a lot of damage in our world.
      • Jul 16 2012: Sorry.I will be more careful and try to see my writings from others' eyes and write my writings clearly or not, for a better world.(I must add 2000charecter limit as a reason for mixtures.)(And I msut add possiblity of not existing for a God brought me the same conclusion.)Thanks for correcting and criticizing me.
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          Jul 16 2012: I'm not criticizing you or your beliefs ömer.

          You write..."As to promoting my own believes, why everyone is supposing I am trying that?"

          I'm simply offering an answer to your question.
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    Jul 16 2012: Omer, a non religious view for you to consider.

    This is the story you are asking us to believe.......

    The creator of the universe makes humans. He kick them out of of Eden first time they disobey. Later he floods the whole world killing all but one family. Then he picks one tribe in the middle east, the Jews. He make a deal with them. Numerous prophets. Then Jesus. You might think he was a phropet. Christians think he came to fix up the mess again and was the messiah. Jews largely disagreed. And no one thought to write anything down until decades after he died. Then another small group get more revelations over decades and write it down in Arabic . They are smart enough to say this is the final revelation.

    So the creator of the universe revealed his final revelation to a one man and it was recorded in Arabic.

    Most of the worlds population would not hear much of any of this for over a thousand years. When did the Americas hear Gods message. When did the Pacific Islanders or the Japanese? Not a very smart way for the creator of the universe.

    The book hasn't changed since it was written in the 7th century. That is why it looks like the product of a 7th Century middle Eastern Culture relatively ignorant in terms of understanding the universe and socially backwards compared to today.

    Still our scientific understanding, culture and language has changed so we struggle to understand how much of it would have been understood by the people at the time it was written. And yet we have many different denominations and interpretations because we are human and humans created a human tool to communicate the message. It is all human and imperfect.

    A real god could do much better with a little imagination. Say communicate to all people at the same time in their own language. Not being invisible would help. Actually interacting with us in the material world. Not a book.

    Seriously the all three religious streams look so cobbled together. So human. Nothing divine at all
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    Jul 15 2012: Dear ömer,
    TED did not make you believe anything. You believe what you do, based on information you are willing to accept and embrace at any given time. It appears that you started this discussion to promote your own beliefs.
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    Jul 14 2012: Omer,

    The fact that many people believe in or search for a god or goddess does not prove a god.

    It is not hard evidence for a god. That is just your personal interpretation of the facts.

    My best guess is our mind has evolved to seek agency and to understand causality as this provided survival benefits. Just because we all might want to check it out if anyone is in the house when we it creak in the night does not mean there are gods of house creaking. Even a dog growls if it hears a branch break or during a storm. The assumption of agency helped our survival but also misfires or is misused by the religious.

    Like so many people you conjure rationales to reinforce your beliefs.

    Your claim that the search for god proves god is no better than the search for ghosts proves ghosts
    • Jul 14 2012: I asked, is the universe expanding? just Yes or No
      And when we found out it?If it is expanding.
      my answers are Yes it is expanding and We discovered it in 20th century.And now in 21th, we are completely sure it is expanding. Do you agree, am I right?
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        Jul 14 2012: It's expanding exponentially. And I really doubt we'll find four more planets in our solar system, like if we only found Pluto a hundred odd years ago and it's only a dwarf planet and just how far away it is, well then by my line of reason I think we'd have seen another planet by now, either by sight or by reflecting radio waves/ xrays.
        • Jul 14 2012: Good.We agrred.Universe is expanding and we found out it a time ago.

          Now, go to islamic art museum in istanbul, take an old koran, such as you can choose "Osman's hand writing koran",then get it by a carbon dating, you will be sure on its age, it will be almost 1400 years. by science we can find out that the book exist for almost 1400 years.Then open and read it.In "zariyat 47" Allah says "we are expanding the universe" I am sure you will say "No, not Allah, and ....." , while reading this.Ok.No problem.But I dont care it.The issue is that, when we read the sentence, we can understand the universe is expanding. 1400 years ago, a meaning (universe is expanding) was meantioned.It is clear. 1400 years ago, expanding of universe was known.just go to the museum, see museum's results of the carbon dating, or have a permission to get the book test again.According to today's science 1400 years ago, people, technology, science were undeveloped.How can a man made koran know expanding of universe?or osman?or another human?if all the humans gathered 1400 years ago,could they find out the expanding of universe?without technology or science?Then 3 ways seen;1) Allah exists and create the koran.2)Osman were a god or something like that(but there were a god on earth called osman,people saw him but didnt believe he was a god,or he died like a helpless human.)3) science and techonolgy were as good as today's(but they were using hand writing as a hobby, not using computers)

          You know, I was searching a god by my logic,I proved the Allah to myself,I chose "1)" . And you choose one of them or just ignore.
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          Jul 15 2012: Omer,

          If it says the universe is expanding, you don't know if they mean it in the way we think the universe is expanding. It doesn't prove the whole book is correct. Even if it says the earth is round and revolves around the sun. That does not make all the claims in it correct, especially the unverifiable ones.

          I guess it it implies humans were created, and yet we evolved. I guess it endorses slavery and polygamy, Female subservience and our culture has evolved past this medieval concepts.

          It is pretty poor logic to find something in a huge book match it to something scientific and then assume the whole thing is correct.

          Does it also say the universe is 14 billion years old? Now that would be impressive, but still not prove the supernatural claims. More likely aliens than gods.
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        Jul 14 2012: What now ömer? WIll you misinterpret the bible's "extend like a tent" to mean that the universe is expanding? If so, do you know what the word "eisegesis" means?
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          Jul 15 2012: I get what you're saying Gabo, a tent expands until it's fully erected etc etc, wouldn't it be nice if these ancient writers mentioned that that was what they meant instead of hoping future generations would realise it to mean what it means and not what they want it to mean.
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          Jul 16 2012: ...
          I think you mean exegesis Gabo.

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        Jul 14 2012: Omer a lot of different versions came up when you google that passage, they either talk about man/ "we" expanding the universe or by man expanding his skills/ abilities the universe then expands somehow. Now I think you've maybe read a little too deeply into that. And I don't get why some god would tell man the universe is expanding and then not explain why? There's no mention of dark energy nothing, so for me there's lots of different interpretations, I was actually on a site which listed at least a 100 different interpretations all from different versions of the Quran.
        • Jul 14 2012: The expected comment has come. I would write this before but you know 2000characters limit.
          I usually dont use google for these important things, I have a wide library.I dont know you know arabic or not.But read and learn and know this.Arabic is the most powerful language in world.Technically or as an art or on other topics, it is the best.Using of arabic is a kind of art.We call it "belagat".Being very good at belagat can take whole your life.But if you achieve, you can write a "tefsir".I will not give you too much details.when a wiritng were written with impeccable belagat, It can give you many different
          meanings(yes you can write a sentence in english which has different meanings but you can't reach 300 or more different meanings)But it has a interesting feature,if you can achieve, none of the meanings conflict eachother and all of the meanings can be completely different and true.The koran was written with an impeccable belagat.I mean, a sentence from Koran can give you even 300 meanings, no conflict with another sentence or meaning, no a wrong meaning. You can obey, believe, accept and do what the sentence says without any doubt.*(This is another evidence of Allah.Except a god, no one can create a sentence like that*{in bakara 24, Allah meantions "all the people gather, and try to create a sentence like in koran,impossible, you can't.*[if you wish, learn arabic, improve yourself in belagat, create an impeccable sentence,like in koran, then I will accept you as a god*(I want at least 200 different meanings and none of them will be a bad meaning.-It will be difficult to choose only a few words from 1.5 million words-)]})***I didnt give too much details, just a small feature of belagat. If you want create an "Ayet(sentence of koran)" or understand the koran without "tefsir", you will encounter many different, difficult but incredible features of belagat(I only talked about versions)will continue in next comment
        • Jul 14 2012: *** As to "tefsir" it means explaination of koran. to write a tefsir you must be the best in belagat and other islamic technics and arts.thanks for Allah we have many tefsirs, and we can accept all of them, having too much version isnt a problem.tefsirs include too much page because whole koran was written with an impeccable belagat and so deep. I have "ibn-i kesir 's tefsir" it is almost 8500 pages but koran is 600 pages.It is clear.Dont use translating, use tefsirs.I think,now, we can accept all the meanings but, focus on the "universe is expanding" to prove Allah.If you arent satisfied,(the tefsirs have been written for almost 1400 years by "Alim"(Alim is someone who dedicated his life to understanding islam, someone who analyses the entire islam by science,logic or other technics like science.) you can find an old tefsir (includes meaning of "universe is expanding") in the same museum (or opposite building),you can get it carbon dating, you will be sure someone knew expanding of universe before today's science.And it must be a Allah.I must chose "1)" again.And as to your question, a common question,. Allah gives news from future or past,These are evidence of its existence,arent they?Allah prove itself, and only Allah can do,I cant prove it, or another cant.But of course Allah dont need to prove itself, but we need.We need some tips or lights to find Allah.Imagine yourself in highschool in an exam, with a difficult question; firstly teacher gives you some data, then asks the question, and you process them in your mind, give an answer or choose one of the choices.The life is the exam-the tips are the evidence of Allah,Koran, The universe etc...(universe is a book but you must know how to read)-The question is "are there a god?"**now link them**-And one of the choices (And of course the most logical one) is "1)" Allah exists. will continue in next comment
        • Jul 14 2012: **( if you still have questions, please learn whole islam, you dont lose anything,forget what you know about it then learn islam completely without prejudice, dont take the risk, but you must see the entire picture, when you did I swear to Allah, whole building will be done, it will satisfy both your brain and your heart.No doubt.Only you can do it, no one can help you completely in that situation.If anyone may have made you believe in god, then would the exam(the world life) have an importance?without spending energy you cant pass the exam.)**Thank you.(completed)
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        Jul 15 2012: ........

        Psalm 104:2 (KJV)
        Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:
        Isaiah 40:22 (KJV)
        It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
        Isaiah 42:5 (KJV)
        Thus saith God the Lord , he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:
        Isaiah 44:24 (KJV)
        Thus saith the Lord , thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things ; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
        Isaiah 45:12 (KJV)
        I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.
        Isaiah 51:13 (KJV)
        And forgettest the Lord thy maker, that hath stretched forth the heavens, and laid the foundations of the earth; and hast feared continually every day because of the fury of the oppressor, as if he were ready to destroy? and where is the fury of the oppressor?
        Jeremiah 10:12 (KJV)
        He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion.
        Zechariah 12:1 (KJV)
        The burden of the word of the Lord for Israel, saith the Lord , which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
        Wonder where the Koran got it ?
        • Jul 15 2012: Without believing the other books, I cant be a muslim.I tried to tell islam's opinion for other religions please read (maybe character limit blocked me but I tried to make my best) http://www.ted.com/conversations/12567/life_after_life_whats_your_ta.html?c=495461
          And please answer, if you know. And please dont ask " where the Koran got it?" Like the other Books, koran got it from Allah.
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          Jul 15 2012: Still doesn't prove anything else in the book, also it doesn't say anything about continuous expansion and it most likely is just a nice way of saying created, and yet it still talks about a 6000 year old earth.
          Further notice, in ancient Greece Democritus determined that the world should be made of atoms and Anaximander also suggested that humans evolved and weren't created this is all in ancient Greece! They'd no evidence for it but they wrote it down anyway, though they did reach these ideas logically.Though imagine if in the same book they wrote about a belief in god and then mistakenly 2000 years later humans connected a few dots in error and determined that a god told them this and how wonderful it is because it agrees with modern science? I think you see where this is going.
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          Jul 15 2012: Stewart,

          Also read those Bible quotes in their context, this just means that the heavens were extended like a tent above the Earth. People's of those times believed that the heavens were like a curtain or a tent. A tent does not expand. Both Christians and Muslims entertain themselves reinterpreting their books to mean what they don't mean in the very same way those who read their horoscopes in the newspaper find them to be so accurate. Try and help any of them to figure out what these passages actually mean. They will never admit their mistake. They will rather believe that tents expand continuously like the universe does, rather that extend (which is not the same, but they happily take extend for expand to make their desires for Biblical and Koranic science feel credible) to their proper shape and size.
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        Jul 15 2012: Omer there's a few problems with your logic on arabic. Firstly it sounds a lot like Chinese calligraphy so by being able to either say one word many different ways or many words one way it doesn't make the language any more special than any other language.
        Also to me the whole point of language in and of itself is to clearly convey messages so we can communicate. So by being able to read 300 different meanings from one sentence, firstly it doesn't impress me, and secondly makes me think what is the point? And as a third point, surely by making a book with 300 different meanings this would be Allah's greatest regret if this god does exist. It must feel guilt for the horrible atrocities done in the name of this book and all because someone read it differently than someone else. Do you think this might at all have influenced every single suicide bomber if a part of the koran can be translated into saying, kill the infidels? And if this god does exist, and doesn't feel remorse for the horrible wickedness and horrible injustice then not only do I not believe in it, but I don't even want it to be true. To wish this to be true is to wish to live as an abject slave carrying out the will of a divine North Korea. I'm glad there is no evidence at all to support the idea a god exists.
        Further notice, in ancient Greece Democritus determined that the world should be made of atoms and Anaximander also suggested that humans evolved and weren't created this is all in ancient Greece! They'd no evidence for it but they wrote it down anyway, though they did reach these ideas logically.Though imagine if in the same book they wrote about a belief in god and then mistakenly 2000 years later humans connected a few dots in error and determined that a god told them this and how wonderful it is because it agrees with modern science? I think you see where this is going.
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        Jul 15 2012: The Koran does not say what you said ömer,

        "[Zariyat 51:47] And We have built the heaven with Hands (the Divine Power), and it is We Who give the expanse."

        So, this means that "they" give it is expanse (its size), not that the heavens are expanding. That's quite the difference. As I predicted, you just reinterpret it to mean something it does not mean. Eisegesis. Only of the Koran instead of the Bible. Peter did the very same thing above with the Bible. People who read their horoscopes in the newspaper do the very same thing.
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    Jul 12 2012: Hi Omer.
    I encourage you to keep on with your search. I believe we are God's children & He will be found by those who diligently seek Him. When we look at the world around us, it is obvious there is a God.
    You will encounter many who are angry that you are seeking God. Why would they get angry if there is no God?
    I came to know God by trying to prove He did not exist; I tried to prove to my wife that the bible was wrong. I found God.
    Many will say it is unscientific to believe in God. I have found "answersingenesis.org" very helpful in answering the scientific questions.
    Enjoy your search; I trust you will be successful.

    • Jul 12 2012: Hi.
      Thank you very much.
      I know, I am sure God is real.
      In fact every one can be sure God is real.But they ignore something.In my body there is a soul.Actually I'm that soul.When I say "I" , you must understand I am talking about this soul, the real ömer.And I am ethernal, when this body die ,I will carry on living.I am just a visitor like others in this world, and this body is my home.And I have two really perfect tools in this home, one of them my heart and the other is my brain.why these 2 tools exist?their main purposes are "understanding". We must use these tools to understand somethings.And the other organs work for these two manager.But problem is that some people suppose they are that body which seens in mirror, and they ignore their hearts.For example , the eyes are a wonderful window for our brains and our hearts.Other organs also are like that.If someone look at this imppecable world with his window, we must search what use that window,brain or heart?Then we can guess what his comment will be.If he is using his brain(logic) at that moment, the comment will be "because ......." , if he is using his heart, the comment will be "....." (because , no one can use his tongue for his heart, maybe he can tell that via telepathy to another.Perhaps we can call it just believing,but i am not sure.)Then we can understand god by using our hearts, but we cant express it.
      And this question can be asked which is "But.. the doctor said , you have a heart and it is working, then why i cant find the god or use my heart to understand something?" cool. I meantioned an alive heart.How can my heart die? yes a heart may die, if you dont feed it. You feed your brain, you eat meals, don't you, or you die soon.Just like that, you must feed your heart, its nutrients are prays,good deeds etc.. And we must know this, bad things kill hearts especially telling lies and antagonism.will continue in next comment.
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        Jul 12 2012: I was going to warn you against the liars-for-Jesus at answersingenesis, and tell you to figure out the creationist quackery out by reading http://www.talkorigins.org/. But I suspect that you were not seriously saying that you started believing because of what you read at TED, you were a believer already and used that quote for some kind of proselytism.
        • Jul 12 2012: Thank you for warning.
          Of course I already believed in god, TED didnt make me believe in god ,encountering with many people who are thinking about God made me believe said's meaning, it was just a small spark.
          And... proselytism, :-) probably you guessed proselytism is a good thing in my religion, but I suppose I am not a good person enough. :-) In this summer, In this hot air, engaging in others problems, trying to proselyze, haha, am I a prophet? NO. trying to solve my own problems is a better engagement. :-)
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          Jul 12 2012: With their leader Ken Sham (see what I did there) ;)
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        Jul 13 2012: RE: In fact everyone can be sure gods or goddesses exists
        I'm not, because there is no compelling evidence for any of it, unless you want to believe, or accept weak arguments, or assume the psychological personal religious experience is evidence for god.

        I suggest you believe your idea of god is real. You don't know for sure.

        No one knows what happens after we die. Some people think they do.

        I've been religious in the past. I now meditate and get many of the same mind experiences. I can still speak in tongues. I understand trance and psychology better.

        Your view of a supreme being could be right, all all the other religious views wrong, even though this would be luck where and when you were born. 1,000 years ago you would be Eastern Orthodox. 2,000 years ago probably some pagan Roman religion. . 30,000 years ago maybe something akin to magic and shamanism. 2 million years ago modern humans did not exist and neither did religion as far as we know.
    • Jul 12 2012: So, for finding and understanding God , there are 2 ways, first directly using your heart or second if your heart isnt healty, firstly using your brain, then chosing a religion, cleaning and recovering your heart, then finding and understanding and believing in god. And you,Mr peter, you are lucky :-) you chose first way.And your opinion ( there is a god so they get angry(and I added this, with a diseased heart, not being able to accept God make them far from god and angry)) really improved my faith to God, Thank you so so much!:-)
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        Jul 13 2012: Heart - pathway to self delusion.

        Brain - I guess 9/10 applying critical thought to any human religion will show it to be man made and any supernatural claims as being unverifiable or bogus.

        It is easy to reinforce a belief with apologetics if you are selective or accept weak arguments. E.g. the widespread occurrence of religions indicates the widespread existence of religion in our cultures. To see this as compelling evidence for the existence of any gods is poor thinking. You are making a big assumption about something you do not know the answer to. How do you know this is because a god or goddess exists?

        Could it be humankinds early efforts to understand universe, a result of us seeing unseen agency behind nature and events, to enshrine moral codes, to seek meaning, to hallucinate, to experience different emotional and psychological states, to be tribal, to absorb cultural religion and ideas?

        There are cultural beliefs in astrology, ghosts, UFO's and alien abductions etc. Some people think they have the answer to these, understanding, but they are guessing.
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      Jul 17 2012: Pete,

      Obviously if it is you who forces himself to think that tents and curtains expand like the universe does, then I cannot be mistaken and you engage in eisegesis. For exegesis you would have to put yourself in the authors' shoes, in their cultural background, and realize that they are just describing "the heavens" as what they thought it was, a tent on top of a flat Earth. Instead you play with meanings to make it appear as if they refer to an expanding universe. I see no way in which tents and curtains could be mistaken for expanding universes. Obvious eisegesis, you put a meaning into it that's clearly not there.

      Quite clear if you had the courage to look at it with critical eyes, rather than with such wishful thinking.

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        Jul 17 2012: Hey Gabo.
        You may well be right, just my dictionary doesn't have "eisegesis". I stand corrected.
        I guess if the universe stops expanding at some stage, then all the wrinkles will be out the tent/curtain. My point was merely that the Koran borrows a lot from the bible. I have no idea if the universe is expanding or not. As I understand it, we are interpreting Red Shift, & there are various views. Quantised Red Shift is interesting though. All interesting stuff.

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          Jul 17 2012: Expand is not the same as extend. A curtain is extended, a tent is extended. Balloons are expanded. They are different verbs. Again, check the mythologies and cosmologies of the appropriate times. Also check your Bible and note that the cosmologies change, sometimes a little, sometimes more, from book to book. Not surprising since the books were written by different people at different times.

          Both the Koran and the Bible have lots of books in common. Thus The Koran does not borrow from the Bible, both the Bible and the Koran borrow from the same older books.

          Anyway, thanks for the clarification and be well.
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    Jul 12 2012: TED did not make you believe anything Omar. TED provides a vehicle for ideas worth spreading. Entering the Louvre does not make you an artist, visiting a hospital does not make you a doctor, going to church does not make you a christian, any more that visiting a TED site made you believe in God.

    I am not trying to discourage your search. I very much encourage it. Visit churches, speak to ministers, read the Bible, search the depths of your feeling and find your comfort zone and come to peace with your decision. The decision must be yours, for your reasons, and be willing to commit to that decision. What is right for Nursi or what is right for me may not be right for anyone else. I just noticed I used Christian terms above in church / minister. There are many way to show your devotion. I will be happy and supportive for you in having arrived at a decision even if it is for or not for following a religious path. The truth lies in your heart and your happiness.

    All the best. Bob.
    • Jul 13 2012: Thank you very much.
      I already believed in God ,TED just made me believe said, Not only TED of course, but it was a starter or something like a spark.TED remainded me said, Said mentally forced me think of God, Now I am trying to prove God logically to myself, to improve my faith for god.
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    Jul 12 2012: Sorry Omar, thinking about something doesn't make it real, even if a lot of people do.

    There may have been a time when everyone thought the sun rotated the earth and they were wrong.

    Do you have any actual evidence of any gods. Do statues of Zeus count as evidence? Do old books? No.

    Where is your compelling evidence, not just things that fit your world view or make sense to you?

    Religion is part of human culture, like language. Doesn't prove anything about the conflicting beliefs being true.

    Ever wonder why most gods and goddesses people believe in are invisible these days?
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    Jul 11 2012: I don't search for god, I just do my best to disprove a god.
    • Jul 11 2012: trying to disprove a God ican be the first step of finding a God.
      I tried and I beat many proof.But except him and his proofs. firstly choose language,then "enter" ,again chosing language,"the flashes of collection" on left,then page down , click "the twenty-third flash" read carefully =)
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        Jul 11 2012: English isn't on it.
        • Jul 11 2012: when you click the link , you will encounter with a site, and look at left and up , english and arabic was seperated from the left column , english is above that. http://www.saidnur.com/
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        Jul 11 2012: I'm sorry, well I'm not actually but that site was horrible, it's logic was laughable and it's science non existent.
        "In the Name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate.
        Their prophets said: “Is there any doubt about God, Creator of the heavens and the earth?”
        By declaring through the use of a rhetorical question that there cannot and should not be any doubt about God Almighty, this verse clearly demonstrates the Divine existence and Unity."
        This logic is hilarious, Is there any doubt about unicorns, creators of rainbows and love" By the previous logic this rhetorical question proves the existence of unicorns, if you bought into this you are being brain washed. This site uses the anthropic principle, and later states that a god single handedly moves every single particle in the universe
        It also states that whoever wrote it cried, physically cried because he saw teenage girls laughing and dancing and thought because of this they'd go to hell. This is absurd, this is immoral, it is evil, sadistic, twisted, self delusional and makes unsubstantiated claims without the single most basic understanding of the universe.
        Omer I am all about the truth, nothing in the world is more worth knowing than the truth, and I tell you honestly, you have read a lot of lies, please at least allow me to impart some scientific knowledge unto you. I will only do so if you are willing to hear and promise to be open minded towards it. I urge you to either allow me to describe what I can to you or to at least go to your local book store or go online and buy Stephen Hawking's books, Carl Sagan, Neil Degrasse tyson, Richard Dawkins, Lawrence Krauss, just any book about astrology, physics, evolution and I promise you, you will be met with evidence and beauty of the real world.
        • Jul 12 2012: we agree on that the site's logic is terrible=)
          And I really need some help so thank you very much indeed for offer.
          And I know many opinions about these topics.I know evolotion, stephen hawking,Dawking and their opinions(not as well as them but i know )
          I must tell you my current stuation and myself,to you help me.(and because there is a mixture, I think)
          until today, I was doing noting about this topic.But today , as i told, TED make me think about God, you know the case, no need to tell. Then I told that here, I just shared my codition with an enthusiasm, i didnt want to claim anything or no another purpose.
          (interupting here i will link them)
          I was born in Turkey,a muslim country.I know islam very well, and I do what it says(some kind of prays, offers, forbiddens; no alchol, cigarette,telling lies, gossiping,insulting,breaking hearts... like these many bad things and good deeds, helping someone or a poor people,giving gifts,being respectful, learning, teaching good things to people... like these many many good things.I obey islam,I did what islam says, I have covered a big distance on being a good and happy person.I believe in Allah,why I believe,Icant tell =)already my problem is that.I believe Allah with my heart,I live islam in my hearth and in real, I feel Allah while doing pray.I experienced Allah many times with my heart or in real, but of course these aren't logical proofs.When I ask myself who is god or does it exist, I want to give a reasonable explanation to myself.(and know this; according to islam to become more excellent than your current position or another one, you must get close Allah and you must understand Allah better and improve your faith(the best way of it is proving Allah by logic.) )so my main purpose is understanding Allah with my logic.I made this decision today,and wrote a writing you know.And to solve my problem,I searched "said nursi" again (I already knew him) I chose him because, he is really wonderful.(Carriying on next comment)
        • Jul 12 2012: --- I read his life,he can memorize a page in a minute, he can solve the most difficult problems in math,physch.... not using paper and pencil, he is very good at arabic( it may seen as nothing, then I can infer you dont know arabic and what is arabic.(in 22 country arabic is mother language, they know arabic they can speak but they dont know anything technically or as an art. in koran , Allah says " you cant create a sentence like sentences in the koran even if all of you(all people on earth) work together!" and we cant do, we cant create but maybe we can understand but we must be as clever and wonderful as "said nursi" or a prophet or other perfect people.And if you are so, you can infer even 300 different meanings form a sentence of the Koran but this is more impressive, all those meanings are right, you can obey all of them, imppecable!So i believe the Koran)), I believe he was as clever as stephen or einstein or others, maybe more clever. I listened many conferences about him, many professor offered him to me, I listened his students (some of them are still alive , but most of them died) And most people make me believe that his books are the only proved things by logic for the unique religion 'islam' (no one can prove other religions or gods by logic and no one can prove Allah and islam by logic except him) So I admire him but this cannot affect me if I will think logical. This affected only chosing him. The most interesting and important thing is one of his words : " I read Risale-i Nur (his books' name) right 700 times, and I learned a new thing for every reading" isnt it strange? you write a book and when you read it you learn a new thing.And I experienced this for many chapter of his books but, I think "case of god " is really difficult, and I know how to read his books, need too much patient, no prejudice, a clever brain, open mind and curious reader =) (carrying on the next comment)
        • Jul 12 2012: I know , I must try to see the whole view, but really difficult, maybe i am lacking little of something but what? does the prejudice block me?.Anyway I need help, and you want to help me, please, if you can achieve and have enough free time, read that chapter which i told with patience and explain me. Or if you dont, you should tell me your opinion, I am always open for new things if it is logical.I will read what you write very carefully, and I hope you will make my heart satisfied like my brain =) This evening I will have been waiting for your comment
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        Jul 11 2012: I'm going to quote Carl Sagan. "Where did the universe come from? Many culture will say that a god created it. But where did god come from? But why not save a step and say that this is un-answerable? Or, save a step and say that god always existed, or, why not save yet another step and say that the universe has always existed, that there is no need for a creation, it was always here." ~Carl Sagan
        • Jul 12 2012: How many planets are there in our solar system?
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        Jul 12 2012: Firstly I have to say I don't know your full context of current beliefs, but if the site you provided is what you base it on then this will be useful, if you don't totally agree with the site then what I'm going to say is still worthwhile and should be said a lot more often.
        This will be rather summary as it's hard to fit 13.72 billion years into a conversation.
        The exact origin of the universe can not be known for certain, this has to be stated, but there are current scientific theories which would give exceptionally good insights into how it could have happened. This delves into quantum mechanics. We start off with absolutely empty space, this space still has weight/ energy though (I'll explain why later), and as long as something has energy or weight, it can create something. All that is required for absolutely nothing to become everything is what is known as a quantum flux, a quick periodic change in a quantum state can create positive energy which hence leads to the generation of particles. How is this possible? The entire energy of the universe equals 0, if you add up all the energy of the cosmos and subtract gravity, you get 0. Hence it doesn't take a huge step of belief to think that nothing can create something because there is still the same amount of energy as there was at the start of the universe. Information here from Stephen Hawking's Grand Design and Lawrence Krauss's Something from Nothing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ImvlS8PLIo also another interesting fact to be noted, most of the mass of a proton/ neutron is actually contained within the empty space between the quarks and 99% of an atom is made from nothing. The physical laws of the universe are nothing special, we are most likely just one universe super imposed on top of an almost infinite number or universes all existing at the same time. This sounds absurd right, but a famous experiment known as the double slit experiment makes it easier to grasp, continued in next comment.
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        Jul 12 2012: In the double slit experiment scientists fired an electron at a wall with a sheet with two slits in the way of the electron and the wall. Watch this, it explains it extremely well, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfPeprQ7oGc Now what does this mean? It means that the electron MUST take every single possible route from A to B that it possibly can, i.e it exists almost everywhere at the same time. This is the only way in which it is possible for the electron to interfere with itself and produce the interrupted, wave like pattern. This applies to the universe in that, we could just be one version of the universe going on it's many paths that it could possibly take, this makes the anthropic principle invalid, as it would explain that it is only mere coincidence that we are in this universe, and life is in this universe because this was one of the paths in which life did evolve.
        Now the big bang is incorporated into the scheme of things. The universe is not only expanding but it's accelerating, evidence of this comes from the red shift and the cosmic microwave background radiation left over from the beginning of the universe, which as a matter of fact was predicted to exist and at the correct temperature before it was even observed.
        The site mentioned how does a lung work without air, this totally disregards science's explanation.
        There would be slight imperfections in the early cosmos, so as that gravity could pull particles together. Eventually enough particles were pulled together, under extreme heat and pressure these particles started to fuse together, it is now known as nuclear fusion and this is how stars are born. Within the cores of stars atoms of hydrogen, helium and lithium all fuse together to form the heavier elements was see today such as carbon and oxygen all the way to uranium. These stars then explode when they run out of fuel as they can no longer maintain the heat required to overcome the gravity of their own star, continued next post.
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        Jul 12 2012: The star then has two options, 1) explode or explode and contract or 2) form a black hole. This is how past suns gave rise to our solar system. On a side note, by working out the density of stars and their gravitational pull, we've learnt that it takes 1 million years for light to get from the core of the sun to the outside then 8 minutes from the outside to Earth, this shoots the 6 day creation dead in the water, it should also be mentioned that 13.72 billion years is arrived at by rewinding the universe until all galaxies were touching one another in a singularity.
        Now gravity does some more work and planets are formed, but we'll skip the exact geography and get to life forming, abiogenesis is our best hypothesis, though not yet proven it does seem promising. The Miller Urey experiment although not confirming abiogenesis it did show how amino acids can form from primordial Earth conditions.
        So now we have the building blocks of life, some may theorise that life originated from 1 species of bacteria but I say there would be more, I recently added this onto TED as an idea. Note: plants came first, without plants all the oxygen would either be trapped in water or carbon dioxide. And also DNA was not the first thing to cause life, most likely it was RNA or a more primitive form.
        Evolution is rather simple in terms to explain, it is the change in genes over time. This has been proven to happen in the forms of natural selection and mutations and a few other methods but I currently forget them. The evidence for this is seen within our genome and our close relationship to chimps and our relation to every living thing even turnips. There is further evidence in the fossil record, especially in the human evolution side of things. I can't delve into too many examples but firstly, bacteria, we observe them evolving in the lab and they are now evolving to be immune to anti biotics. Continued
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        Jul 12 2012: I hate myself for forgetting the exact name of the lizard but there was one species introduced to a new island where it had never lived and within 50 years had started developing a larger head and flatter teeth and stronger jaw muscles to maximize on it's new diet of leaves. A fruit fly was made to speciate simply by feeding the same species different foods and not letting them interbreed and then eventually letting them breed to discover they no longer could and were then two different species. The evolution of the human ear is well documented from the jaws of early reptiles. If you want me to comment on the mechanisms of natural selection let me know but basically it is nature selecting the species best adapted to survive in it's surroundings. I can give more experiments if you want but for now I refer you to Richard Dawkins Greatest Show on Earth and this http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0199230846/ also just youtube anything I've said and there's probably a talk on it somewhere. I was a little scarce on the evolution because I'm still reading my way through books but can give more information if you want.
        But basically that's how science says we got here, everything stated above was arrived at from observations, evidence, tests, results.
        So in conclusion, believe in God if you want, I'm fine with that, but please stay up to date with science, and I'm not talking to you Omer as you may already know all of this but there are others who need to read this too.
        • Jul 12 2012: Thank you!
          I agree , there are many people who are not aware of these.
          I already knew these, but I checked, thank you.
          I already accepted most of these.And no one can confute these completely, maybe improve or correct its wrongs.
          But my issue isnt exactly this.These explain the question 'how' very well.And if I ask 'why', let me answer, " this is the reason and this is the result, how can I ask 'why'.And if I ask again 'why' for the reason, then we can tell the previously reason, and getting deeper " But I ask not for "why" or "how", i ask "WHO?". let me explain, a reason give us a result, doesnt it? But a reason can give us many results. One of the results, if it is the right one, it can be a reason for the next result and if the next result is chosen correctly, this one can be a reason for the next, and if we provide this chain very well we can reach a impeccable result eventually. Now, we are sure, there is a impeccable chain of "reason-result" , and the last result is today's world , universe etc..But how about the other possibilities? Isn't today's world unique and best result of billions results. what a possibility!Does the reasons choose the correct result?It Is unbelievable! Reasons don't have a brain or selfcontrol.just like that " In a lab,someone will forget to close the window, a wind will push the window,it will hit the bottles which includes some chemical material,the bottels will fall down floor,they will be broken,the materials will spread and they will mix with eachother, but a detail, such as, 1gr material "a"+ 35gr "b" + 2% "c" etc.. will be in that, and for the right pressure this must be on 2345m height and the wind must make the temperature 23,1C degree for the reaction, as a result "a perfect medicene which can beat Cancer and AIDS at the same time.What a possibility!!! But if a chemist tries to make it, then it may be doable.So,there must be someone who will shape this chain!Now I noticed, evolution is a very big step to prove God.Thank you
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          Jul 13 2012: Really Omer. How many planets have you been to. How do you know this is the best.

          Earthquakes, disease, desert, ice, animals trying to eat us.

          How did it end up like this, why etc. We don't exactly know.

          To inject a god to answer the unknown like this is a logical fallacy. An argument from ignorance. Some people still think magic causes disease and lightening. Others know about bacteria, viruses and electricity. God of the gaps.
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        Jul 12 2012: Very interesting, as to question of why? I settle for not everything has a reason.I also hate questions about the "purpose" of things, these questions are only asked by those who need a purpose in everything to be happy.
        I'd also hope that our world isn't the best result of an almost infinite number of universes, there's too much wrong for it to be the best.
        Also how do you get from evolution to God? Very interesting idea, I've never heard that one before.
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        Jul 13 2012: Omer, there are eight planets in out solar system. Why do you ask?
        • Jul 13 2012: Hmmm.. right, eight.I say, There are 12 planet in solar system.(While you are reading this you will ask "evidence?" "how you know?" normally you did, I know you will be a perfect scientist. :-) )
          I will not show any evidence.Or I am not trying to persuade you, I will not do.I am just waiting someone who will discover the other 4 planet.(actually I trust 'NASA') You needn't have known this but I shared this with you. And I want something from you; if in future, the other 4 planet or more will be discovered, please find me,will you?When the planets will be discovered,We will meet anywhere you want,.When I heard the twelfth planet from news, I will have been seraching you,plesae you also do. When this happens, if you wish, we can go on a holiday like two old fellows and friendly we can discuss what you want during long nights, it will be wonderful, you will teach me what you know and I will do so.Of course we will do when others discovered if we will still be alive. :-) Discovering them likely takes many years =). deal or not deal?you can find me on face, here, or (mchtmrbzkrt@hotmail.com) or give me a meeting point :-) or come here Istanbul. :-)
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    Jul 11 2012: I wish you luck on your quest. What I and others think should not concern you as this is your search for answers most of us have done ours and made our choice. I am with Jain-bernd on this one I don't believe and only you can answer. The last question