- Said Farah-Ceh
- Merida
- Mexico
This conversation is closed. Start a new conversation
or join one »
Working children: should we prohibit, permit or promote it.
For many years various international institutions (such as Unesco or the goverment) have fought against child labor, saying it is a way to exploit them. But since 1976 in Peru there is an organization of children and adolescents who are clamoring for their right to work, ensuring that through work they can get different skills, knowledge and social abilities.
* What is your personal position on this issue that concerns us all, in one way or another?
* If you were the minister of labor in your country, what position would you have to child labor.
Efrain Torres
Tanka Poudel
Prohibit it. On a broader perspective work should be participatory not forced.
Said Farah-Ceh
Jack Parkin
My mom was of the opinion that kids should have a childhood and that having fun was more important than anything else. It is a philosophy I am following with my children.
That being said, I also believe children need someway to build a feeling of self-importance. There are numerous ways to do that. It could be from being good at a sport and practicing hard at it. It could come from working hard to have great grades at school. It could come from any number of places.
I wasn't all that good at sports, I was terrible at school, I was pretty good at video games but that was a solitary affair 20 years ago. Looking back I realize now that my self-confidence, which had been abysmal most of my life, improved significantly after I started working at the age of 17.
It wasn't until I got my first job that I felt a sense of independance. That feeling of finally controlling my own destiny changed me in profound ways. I can't help but wonder, had I worked earlier (which my mom was very much against) would I have actually gotten more out of my childhood.
So, I am in favor of allowing children to work but I do believe there should be laws in place to keep some limits (so many hours per day/per week). In the US the laws are there but are pretty easy to get around. Family businesses and farms certainly get leniancy. There are always places willing to pay kids under the table.
When it comes to my own children, I intend on encouraging them exactly the way Jess's parents did. I'd be more than happy to see my kids work in an environment they have a passion for. Will I "let" them work in fast food at 16? Well...I guess we'll just have to see :)
Said Farah-Ceh
All caountries should have laws specifically regulating the work of children, and follow up carefuly.
I also think is important what you mentioned about the several ways to build a self importance.
Thank you for sharing Jack.
Gunjan
You see a child working for two reasons : a) Low family income, forces a child to earn money for self and family, often these children, as seen in my developing nations, are pushed into informal sectors of the economy, with no security of job (& sometimes life), they don't have any access to education, so their skills remain underdeveloped, thus in future as adults they may remain deprived of quality jobs.
So coming back to your first point : They may of 'cos have better practical knowledge of society, than non working children of their age group. But since they lack education, so they lack skills, and lastly lack a bright future.
Coming to second point of being a labor minister : I think this situation has got more to do with education ministry/department (i.e Human Resource Development ministry in our nation), because child works to increase family income, so if govt takes care of that child not just for education, but also by providing food and clothing, s/he need not go for work and can continue their education, get skills, thus in future they'll have a wider range of jobs.
Said Farah-Ceh
Do you really think that a scholar degree asure you a better job?
cheers!
Joshua Sisk
You work because you desire to. The desire could be anything love passion in idea or person. If we offer children into the work place we have a responsibility as coworker bosses and teachers to constantly verify what it is they are taking home in there memory knowledge bank to ensure we are benefiting the needs of the child.
Sadly laws will never allow this because this inherently cause favoritism in the work place. Apprenticeship is fine but should be held at the same standards but with ever job or working experience there are gonna be more times than not moment when it sucks and we must do it to become professional and it is our choice weather we will endure.
Now some kids will just quit while others may be working to support their family and be used because their employer knows they can get away with it or maybe the individual is not quick and is just being taken advantage of.
I think with the proper checks and balances it is appropriate.
Debra Smith 200+
Hemanth Reddy
Some children wants to study but some other don't have interest in studies.If I were the minister I would see every child have minimum education with which they can live with better standards.I will not only take care on education their interests are also given priority.After having the minimum education then choice will be left with the children that they want to continue their studies or not.I will encourage them to work to give the financial support to their families,I mean part-time jobs.this is the choice of children to work or not.They should not be forced to do.
I will not encourage child labor in the sense that they are not allowed to work for the whole without having studies since studies are given top priority.
Debra Smith 200+
And how do you integrate the reality that kids who work in highschool - while often brighter but poorer - do not get the grade results that would get them into the 'best schools" and by that I hope you read the schools that would get them onto the easier roads through networking leaving these bright and capable human beings to manage their local walmart.
Said Farah-Ceh
(knocking on the table)
Simba P.K.S
Hence, I feel that going for works is fine, as long as :
1)the child is interested in the work & does it with pleasure and the work is part time, with sufficient time for schooling & other activities are present.
or
2)there is no other option due to poor financial status & neglect of govt authorities etc.
But, I feel that Governments should prohibit works involving greater stress for children below 13 yrs of age, as it harms them a lot. Children should be allowed to do what they love best!
Debra Smith 200+
Simba P.K.S
And by the way, I am not even 20... So am not qualified to be an adult!:)
Debra Smith 200+
Simba P.K.S
So, what do you propose as the cure for the crazy educational system & political neglect?
Debra Smith 200+
My only answer to your question is that we try everything and ward off the complacency and disinterest that have done others in. I adore the questions you ask. Keep asking them of everyone and you can help change the world. Doesn't it help to know that there are others like you around the world who are still trying? It helps me.
Simba P.K.S
Warding off complacency is a bit more difficult, right? Easier said than done. Personally, I have no idea on how to change this whole system. The only thing I thing I can do is to walk the talk & motivate others do the same, or atleast get some people thinking the same lines... After all, "It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness!"
Debra Smith 200+
Simba P.K.S
Said Farah-Ceh
Cheers!
Simba P.K.S
Yeah, actually that was just what i meant. I have edited my response now.
Thank You!
Ghassan Mustafa
Said Farah-Ceh
How could we tell a child to stop working because in 20 years he/she can get a better job, since this is no longer true in most countries. A school degree does not ensure a good job, and often not even a job.
Smile!
alrasub .
Sarah M
Kanisk Chakraborty
Let's see, here are a list of +/- points if it is permitted:
-kids decide for themselves if they want to participate and experience work
-learn the value of money, hard work
-some might have no other option due to their family background/environment
-hone real life skills, as mentioned by "Sir Ken Robinson"
-if promoted too much, some kids might fall prey to the instant gratification of receiving money, and the whole learning process may backfire
-chance of employers exploiting them
-there is a lack of jobs in the market, inclusion of kids will only serve to increase competition for the jobs
-then again, there is also the fact that most of them won't be qualified to do anything other than menial labor
-which gets us to the point where we see that a lot of parents (like mine) have tried to teach their kids by providing them allowance money for doing things like household chores, which is like working, and is done in a controlled environment, under the supervision of parents.
So, all in all, it is circumstantially determined-depending on the individual to take up work, or on situations where basic resources are not accessible. But, for rest of the "resourceful" world, it won't serve any purpose. I'm a high-school student, and I'm overwhelmed with coursework, study material, extracurricular activities, social engagement etc. there is no where I can place work in my schedule apart from the summer holidays-something I've definitely taken advantage of, doing a few unpaid internships at local companies, and finding universities to serve as assistant to 4th year students in my field of interest. But, then again, you can do all these to gain experience without permitting child labor. Some of my friends haven't even started thinking about work. So, IMO, I would prohibit, although depending on various conditions.
Said Farah-Ceh
and actually I agree with most of them, but...what makes you think that the kids are not able to learn anything from work? (point #5)
And also (point #7) I think that children can do a lot of job other than menial (it is not a bad thing to do), but in my experience kids are very helpful providing differents points of view in several situations that for most adults seems very complicated.
Cheers!
Kanisk Chakraborty
As for point #7, I agree with you, children can do jobs that are other than menial tasks. But I'm saying that it is next to impossible for kids to do complicated jobs. Our world, with a population of upwards 7bn+, already has adults who are accomplished enough to do difficult jobs. When a certain amount of these adults don't make it to that high-tier job, a lot of them try the low-tier jobs. An employer would most certainly pick the more "experienced" and "accomplished" adult for the task than the child, who at his/her age shouldn't be thinking about money anyways, but rather gaining experience and knowledge of his field of interest.
And for the matter of high tier jobs, I think we all know that no industrialist/wall st. corporate/etc will be placing a 13 year old on a directors seat, just because they've desired to experience things.
Said Farah-Ceh
pretty interesting but I dont think either they would place someone in a director seat just because he/she is old enough.
Kanisk Chakraborty
Experience is the key word here.
Conor Corrigan
Said Farah-Ceh
you suggest that it should be probihit, but also saying that kids arent kids anymore?
Conor Corrigan
Said Farah-Ceh
Malausène Sébastien
dean crawford
David Hamilton 50+
Does anyone truly think the world would be a better place if Michael Jackson never sang "I Want You Back", or "ABC"? Alright, so we all believe in child labor, it's just a matter of how bad we let it get.
Admittedly that's a bit like the old joke...
"Would you sleep with me for a hundred dollars?"
"No, what do you think I'm a whore?"
"How about a million?"
Smiles...
"Okay, so we both agree that you're a whore, now we're just arguing price"
Debra Smith 200+
David Hamilton 50+
Since then I have thought of a better example. Dakota Fanning, in "I Am Sam", or the kid who played Elliot in ET, should it have been illegal for them to be below the age of 17? She got nominated for an oscar. Should the Disney channels existence be illegal or just some of their horrible content?
It's funny I actually watched this video the other day of Michael http://youtu.be/AE_zxpeBaYM because I mentioned him here... and, looking back, there is a part of it, that's just really creepy. The kids are so on point, that you just have to think "How many times do you have to smack a kid to get him to do things that perfectly?", it's horrible.
Then I reallized... Well, he probably would have had a drunk dad that beat the crap out of him either way. Would it really have been that much better without the music?
So, I still think child labor, is more a concern of abuse, the fact that he worked 7 days a week and never had a childhood, than a concern of "Should it be legal for talented children to be paid for their work?".
I think most of us would actually like to see more talented children paid for their work. There's a huge push to start paying college athletes in the works right now, because quite a few of them don't get good degrees, and this is the most popular they're ever going to be. People don't go to childrens concerts and recitals to see the school board, or teacher in action... They make money.
Debra Smith 200+
Said Farah-Ceh
Interesting, but I think there are another ways to encourage them to do it well.
Stevan S.
Word "labor" is often found synonymous with hard physical work, which has been proved harmful and dangerous for children (kids working in coal mines during the industrial revolution).
Going to school is a sufficient engagement for children.
Schools themselves should be considered as an introduction or a representative of principles valued in adulthood careers.
The child's attitude towards school may be equivalent to the level of diligence he/she will display in his/her future job, therefore it should be taken seriously.
Adriaan Braam 20+
It totally depends on the circumstances as to what is possible or should not be allowed.
This very much depends on country, society and family. Mexico would be suspect to me..
In no way should children be exploited and labour almost implies that. There is a reason for the existence of unions, even adults need protection. If children were ever made to work it should only be based on their well-being, not the one they are working for.
To start with giving them chores is a great way for them to learn. It helps them to feel appreciated, but also for them to appreciate others who do things for them (and how much work that can be).
Everything we get for free, is worthless.
Said Farah-Ceh
...why would you think of México as suspicious?
Adriaan Braam 20+
When one cannot trust the police, that's another issue. The existence of gangs does not help either.
Your question, I think, would not even come up in the US or Canada.
Said Farah-Ceh
I myself was born on this earth that some international organizations call Mexico, I got no borders, nor do I think about them a lot. But if I had to mention other countries would think twice, especially if a country I´ve never visited.
Here is an advice:
You should travel before give an opinion,
not everyone in Spain belong to the ETA;
not all Canadians play ice-hockey;
and so I can go on.
Cheers!
Adriaan Braam 20+
Are you saying I can only have an opinion about Mexico when I have been there myself??
Said Farah-Ceh
You only can have a real opinios if you have been there, otherwise it is just an speculation.
But if we talk about real data, according to the WHO, and talking about the hazard rating in the countries in its latest revision (composed of the sum of suicides plus homicides), Mexico ranks # 14 (with a total of 15.2%) while Canada is # 18 (with a total of 13.05%). I do not think we are so different.
Take care because you are only 2.15% far from the country you´ve mention as the dangerous
Raja Choudhury
As far as children are concerned - they have always been exploited as labour and only started to come into a more creative period in life during the 20th century due to the work of spiritualists like Balnkenburg, Montessori, Steiner and Krishnamurthi. The rich children were educated before to be rulers and the poor served. Now we have a huge middle class worldwide that expects to learn and be purposeful and also they expect products and services too. It's a funny old conundrum that will be very difficult to get out of until our idea of purpose-filled meaningful life is not defined by how many hours we work, how much we earn and what our spending ability is in a consuming society. Until then someone will always exploit someone else.
Said Farah-Ceh
I really like it because you are proposing a complete shift of paradigm, or rather, you are promoting to see things in a much simpler way.
Thanks for the perspective,
is to think.
Rafi Amin 20+
Jess Pillmore
But the roadblock here is, in this day and age, children are not looked at a full citizens capable of paving their own paths.
Many, if not most, children are dependent on their guardians to have their best interests in mind. And for many guardians, what the child wants is not what the guardian feels is in the child's best interest... and the guardians are speaking from their own interests.
I think strengthening and redefining children's rights is a necessity and deeply intertwined with your question... because currently, the majority of the world values consumerism above all else. So, if children and adolescents can't work for themselves then they are seen as less than in society.
I was lucky to have parents that asked, and asked often, what I wanted as a child and were helpful when I started working in my early teens. I worked as a choreographer and teaching assistant. Jobs that fully informed who I am today, how I learn and how I now advocate for my son.
Said Farah-Ceh
I also think that we should permit it, with all the vigilance and rights that it should represents.
Debra Smith 200+
Jess Pillmore
Debra Smith 200+
Aja Bogdanoff 20+
Aja Bogdanoff 20+
Said Farah-Ceh
I just read an article in that concern, the title was "Why we pass the exams but do not learn?" it is in spanish, but if you are interested here is the link:
http://www.revistaeducarnos.com/sites/default/files/educ%40rnos.6.pdf
Cheers, and thank you agian for sharing a personal experience.
Shokrullah Amiri 10+
Obviously, when it comes about child labor, their bodies are not strong enough to tolerate tough conditions of work, hence, resulting to abnormal growth of their body. Simultaneously, no education will restrict them to not grow professionally resulting to life time living in a similar condition. They are also not mature enough to decide accurately.
In my country, children are working to stay alive, not a choice of living that way. Most of them lost their parents, or their family heads are not able to earn enough to feed and educate them.
Said Farah-Ceh
What should we do or how should we react to this?
Becca Dana
Nabil Shaukat
trent johnson
Said Farah-Ceh
Yehia Kh.
As a minister of labor, I would think its wise to dedicate a portion of the ministry's funding solely for those who are underage, from professional training to educational programs regarding their rights
Said Farah-Ceh