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Joel Pigeau

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If one's mental illness could be cured by a single pill, would you choose to do so?

In the talk by Elyn Saks, Seeing Mental Illness, she mentioned that, if a complete and permanent cure was offered, she would take it.
I found this sentiment highly interesting for many reasons. I am a high-funtioning autistic person with Obsessive Compulsive disorder. My symptoms are not debilitating, but they have had a profound impact on the way I live my life. I'm no stranger to social rejection and high-anxiety.
That being said, if I were offered an complete and permanent cure for my condition... I can say that for my anxiety issues at least, I might be interested. However, despite the focus on a cure for autism in the public sphere, I would approach a cure for my autism with extreme reluctance. For myself, there is to deep a connection between what are considered to be clinical signs of autism and what I would consider to be my personality, my "self."
I suppose that this difference in opinion is related to our own individual experiences with the unique manifestations of our conditions. My own condition occationally strips me of control, but never in so stark a manner as discribed by Saks in her talk.
I would be interested in hearing others views on this topic.

Related Talks:
Topics: autism medicine mental illness ocd schizophrenia
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    Lindsay Newland Bowker 50+

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    Jul 26 2012: My heartfelt thnaks and deep appreciation to the many here speaking in the first person about their own experience with diagnosis and treatment. In a larger sense the issue that you raise could be applied to any serious illness and the question ultimately is "Is the Medical Establishment seeking patient wellness" ? Is curing a particular disease, like cancer, my disease, an achievement if wellness is not achieved, if you are more or less permanently disbled from the side effects of treatment?

    That broader question is at the heart of modern medicine where there is never adequate awareness of and attention to the final state of the patient..their final well being.

    Living a productive fulfilling life withf a mental illness like schizophrenia, bi polar disorder, Aspergers. or OCD, Depression and so many other debilitating and highly stigmatized illlnesses is a huge challenege..every moment requires courage and forgiveness, patience and hope.

    I have three people in my life I care deeply about who face this challenge every day..two with depression and one suffering bi polar disorder. The right medicine just doesn't seem to be there and I am beginning to wonder if we know enough about the complex bio chemistry of the brain to design a drug that can deliver wellness in the complete sense you point to Joel. It is really not any more humane or well targeted than the once popular pre frontal lobotomy. or the original versions of shock therapy.

    I am very hopeful about the new discoveries concerning MRI treatments which actually do seem to deliver something closer to complete wellness..

    In the meantime..any patient who is asked to take pharmaceuticals for any illness or asked to undertake radiation therapy know or should know that even if the disease is cured or eradicated, what is left for them may not be wellness..not ever again.

    And that is not something we should just accept.

    Wellness has to be the standard.

  • Sandra Sev-usw

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    Jul 26 2012: In my case: no, for the same reason some others have already stated (interestingly enough a lot of people, who actually have problems in that area). For many years I have suffered from depressive episodes and quite a few psychosomatic symptoms. With therapy and a lot of thinking and dealing with my problems on the count of how they affect my daily live (instead of always going back to points in my life, where all this might have come from), I was lucky enough not to need medication (although I thought about it one or two times) and to just accept this as the way I am. I can say today, that I am (in most cases) stronger and better off then I would have been, if I had taken a magic pill. I have made a lot of helpful experiences that might one day also be helpful to others, because my insights help me to understand other people and their problems as well. But I do realize that I was lucky, since there are a lot of other disorders that have way more consequences on people’s lives.
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    Ashwin Baburaj

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    Jul 25 2012: NO! i would not take it because before you are not sure that what type of mental disease you are having for eg:- you may be having a simple headache and you are taking a pill to recover your pain, instead you could have used alternatives like drinking lots of water or something else to regain oxygen level in your brain. SO, it's very important to know what kind of mental illness are you having first to start a treatment , instead of that you should not take a pill...And you may also have the side effects of the pill and sometimes, if continued having the pill after sometime your body may stop reacting to the pill itself.....

  • Alison Taylor

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    Jul 25 2012: Yes I would take it, im 41 I have suffered severe depression and self harm since i was 8 yrs old just to have a break from myself would be good, I am fed up smiling on the outside and not on the inside. To lead a working life i cannot be given strong drugs, and it was the first time today i have openly told people i work with whom i have for 14yrs that the burn i have is self harm.
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    João Mourão

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    Jul 25 2012: I wouldn't take it. I have bipolar disorder and though I would like to eliminate a lot of what happened thanks to it, when I take medication to become more stable I feel extremely uncomfortable with the lack of speed in my head afterwards. I do take it, but just enough to keep it showing. So, I rather have my episodes and keep the speed up, or down, depending on the time of the year, but keep feeling things as I generally do.
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    Oliver Harper

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    Jul 25 2012: As a clinician that works in mental health and previous psychatric facilities any pill taken over or under the counter has repercussions on the body or what is known as side effects. There is a cost for everything under the sun. Most medications will produce microwave results in the short run but often tend to have over time crock-pot metabolic consequences in the long run. We all must learn like the Apostle Paul to live and embrace the mystery of contentment.
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    Max Gutapfel

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    Jul 21 2012: In my case nope ... the process of getting out of a mental illness (depression for instance) teaches you too much to miss out on.

    But id say it depends on the case and how hard of a struggle your having. Also what kind of mental illness.
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    Tanka Poudel

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    Jul 21 2012: IN MY VIEW:
    To me your question sounds more like " Will a person choose a cure over his consciousness?" now this is definitely a tricky question If not: answer to your question is very simple "Yes". Now in reference to the updated question which is really "the question" even for this the answer will be "Yes". There is no medicine for consciousness or identity so you can neither loss it or gain it through medication. If improvement in your health can or will change your consciousness you were not conscious in the first place. However you will have access to more thing to do and fully enjoy your life once you are health.

  • Khurram Shahzad

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    Jul 16 2012: Its more complicated than a physical injury were you have got an impairment or a wound that's got u disabled. this is where your mind, your way of thinking is being influenced in a certain way by whichever illness or disorder u might be suffering from. I have a relative who has an extreme case of an Obsessive Compulsive Disorder where shes in some manner forced to do things in a certain way. Like for here it has to be that way otherwise she simple cannot accept it, and its grown on her now. Like it is what defines her. Over the years and through her experiences shes adapted to it, learn to live with it and digest the adverse effects that it has on her. additionally the wealth of medication that we get served these days dusnt really help cure it. As Janet Karasz said
    , it does more to saturate it resulting in as " flat personalities". So a pill to actually eliminate any certain disorder or mental illness could possible lead to to self rejection. What i mean to say is that the life you have lived up till now would be like the life of a different person. You would not know it. Yesterday you did sumthing because you just had to do it in a certain way, having taken such a pill, wouldnt you ask yourself, why am I doing this, or perhaps why have i been doing this. as a trade for the illness we might just end up with a negative look at we have done in our lives leading up to this point The people around you might not know how to handle the new you. So do we really need such a pill?
    Additionally, people effected by such special scenarios are more driven to make it their strength. As Rob has pointed out, there are many examples of people spread throughout history with great success stories despite their illness. I have a friend, recently graduated with a degree in fine arts. He has several illnesses and impairments, but the amount of success he has raked in, in a year and half is insane. With what little knowledge I have on this, id say youve got an edge over the rest
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    Tracy Fitzpatrick

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    Jul 16 2012: i have very few regrets, and i learned long ago that regret just eats at you. you need to move on, forgive yourself and others, and learn as much as possible from those mistakes. all it can do is make you a better person. forgiveness of the self is the key to making it work and letting go of those regrets....
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    Tracy Fitzpatrick

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    Jul 16 2012: I was going to say "ABSOLUTELY!" but you make an excellent point that my mental illness (bipolar disorder) is an intimate and intricate part of who I am. I control it effectively with medications, but I would love a complete cure, however my illness has led me to life experiences that I otherwise would have never had--experiences that have shaped my character and helped me to become the strong and independent woman that I am. I DO NOT WISH IT UPON ANYONE ELSE, however! (except maybe my ex-husband...he needs to be knocked down a notch or two from his high-horse...)

    • Joel Pigeau

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      Jul 16 2012: Agreed, it is one thing to desire a release from difficulty, but it is another to regret the difficulties that have helped to form the people that we are today. Not very healthy on an emotional level. As much as I dislike being an anxious person, it kept me out of a lot of trouble as a teenager.
      :)
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      Jason Pounds

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      Jul 17 2012: I believe this world would be boring if everyone’s mental well-being was about the same, I find the diversity in how our brains work, make for a more interesting experience in life. It may be fair to say that a large sum of great thinkers in history as mentally-ill, because they were outside the norm in how their minds functioned, and perceived life. What if mental-illness is responsible for a lot of things that wouldn't otherwise be possible? With the above mentioned thoughts, I would have to reject a cure myself

  • Kaitlyn Geary

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    Jul 16 2012: Depression yes, ADD no. There is nothing good about depression, but ADD is what makes me able to multitask and micromanage like a boss, I just need to work with the challenges it also presents.

  • walter crockett

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    Jul 15 2012: Your right, the line can't be defined. But governments and religions would sure love such a pill.

  • walter crockett

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    Jul 15 2012: Who's idea of abnormal and what gauge do you use to measure distress?

    • Joel Pigeau

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      Jul 15 2012: Unfortunately, what is normal and what is abnormal can only be determined by monitoring how the majority of the population behaves. So, normal by the measure of the social scientist.
      Distress on the other hand is entirely subjective and can only be determined by reports by the individual in question.

    • Joel Pigeau

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      Jul 15 2012: I suspect I'm misunderstanding your meaning. Are these questions perhaps rhetorical? Or is it your wish to point out the difficulty in finding a dividing line between the normal and the abnormal? I would certainly agree that the difference is not always clear, even when stringently defined. However, I do not believe that a stricter definition is needed to discuss this particular question.The thin line between health and illness on a mental level was rather the point.

  • walter crockett

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    Jul 14 2012: First define 'mental illness', if it can be done.

    • Joel Pigeau

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      Jul 15 2012: A condition with primarily mental symptoms which causes abnormal behaviour, significant distress for the individual, difficulty performing everyday tasks, and/or conflict with society and its rules.
      Generally more than one of these factors should be present.
      For the sake of the conversation, "anything listed in the most recent DSM" would be fine.

  • julie athanasiou

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    Jul 14 2012: i also have bipolar desease and for many years i denied to take medicines it was more dificul now i take my medicines and it is much better but i dont believe that only medicines are doing ole the job i believe that i control my situation better with the help of my phyhiater and my familie and friends

  • Paul Redling

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    Jul 14 2012: Duh. Of course I would. I mean, your "self" is made of the choices you make, not the ones you don't. Whatever you are hiding on the inside isn't your true self, because you don't think it's important enough to show. Any pill that would improve my brain function permanently? Who would not take that? Haven't you ever seen Limitless? Anyway, back to the true self thing:
    We are what we do. We are what we eat, who we talk to, and what we get involved in. Anything that you feel you want to do and are good at, but don't have the courage to do, might as well not be a part of you. If you don't think it's important enough to show the world, then they will never know and to everyone you will look like a person who does not do that. And guess what? If you don't do it, you're not a person that does it. Your true self is who you are, not who you are meant to be.
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    Debra Smith 200+

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    Jul 12 2012: It is my impression that the number one reason many people do not take the meds that we think would help them is that there are still cruel and terrible side effects from many drugs. If you have experience of this one way or the other, could you tell me if this is true, please?

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        Debra Smith 200+

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        Jul 13 2012: My last entry of thanks many hours ago misfired so I am expressing it now. Thanks for taking the time and energy to answer my curiousity and concern.
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        Debra Smith 200+

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        Jul 13 2012: Oh shoot, Myfanwy, girl with the sense of humour I get. Please do not think you did anything wrong at all. It was me and communication is so fragile. I just wnated you to know that I was not taking your response for granted. Deb
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      Jesse Weinstock

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      Jul 13 2012: From my experience with taking these meds I feel they can be incredibly damaging if taken by the suggestion of someone else. This has nothing to with the medicine itself rather than what it represents.

      By taking these medicines you are in turn admitting to yourself that do not believe you are capable of handling your feeling on your own.

      - If you come to the conclusion that you want to try these meds yourself you are acting in a healthy manner by saying to yourself "I feel I may have a problem that is over my head and may need some help."

      -How ever if this is suggested to you by someone else you will be hearing "I think you may have a problem that is above your head and that you may need some help."

      If you come to the conclusion yourself then you are coming to terms with who you are, and making an attempt to deal with them. If you are suggested this though, then you are inadvertently being judged by another. Some one is telling you that they belief you are not emotionally strong enough to deal with the problems you are facing. Hearing something like that can be crippling to ones self esteem.

      So in my experiences every time some suggest medication for me I couldn't help but feel that they were judging me. In my head I knew they were trying to help me but inside I was crying for someone to tell me "you are fine for who you are and if you think you are strong enough then I believe you".
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        Debra Smith 200+

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        Jul 13 2012: Thanks Jesse, for this perspective. It is like a morality tale in its way making "helpers" aware of how painful 'help can be. I might not have had any awareness of this except, as I have shared on other questions, I recently had a back surgery which resulted in 2 clots to my brain. Suddenly people in my life had no more confidence in my abiities, including one of my closest relationships where that person started lying about stupid useless stuff. Man! Distorting my reality even as I struggled to figure out my own world felt like abuse. I can only imagine how this reaction, as you mentioned above would undermine your confidence.
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    Sarah M

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    Jul 12 2012: Joel you are very brave for sharing. I worked in Mental Health for 5 years. My job entailed providing recreation and Leisure to people with a Mental illness. My clients lived in Licensed Boarding Houses throughout Sydney. These Boarding Houses where private enterprises, where the owner made a very good living off their resident taking most of their pension. My clients in return got poor housing, terrible food and abuse both from the owners/managers and each other. I can’t talk for anyone but I can only assume after ending up in this type of accommodation that they would all have taken a pill if one available
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      Debra Smith 200+

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      Jul 12 2012: Wow. Sarah!
      Thank you!
      It appears to me that hanging with so many brave people in your job has made you courageous too! Thank you for sharing your informed perspective.

  • Anca Sovarosi

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    Jul 11 2012: (Location: New Westminster / Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada) Last time I read the Mental Health Act and DSM IV, the publicly told documents that the Psychiatry and Mental Health industry is built upon, there was no definition of health whatsoever, besides the concept of "managing" or "controlling" what they've defined as mental illness

    In the hypothesys of a pill curing the behaviour or thoughts labeled as "mental disease", whether self-displayed or claimed by surroundings (people, real or not evidence), a logical inquiry is:

    What is the "health" that is the end-result to be accomplished? (standard, expected behaviour, allowed thougts, what else would they include under an approved, written definition of mental health, normalcy or social acceptance)
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      Debra Smith 200+

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      Jul 12 2012: Anca, This question is derived from something from this talk by a woman who has endured mental illness. We are just wondering if others felt as she did.
      Elyn Saks: A tale of mental illness -- from the inside - it is a great talk, and if you or others have not seen it - it is very worth watching.
      Your point is valid - what would such health look like but it is not within the scope of this question exactly and so we are not qualified to answer it.
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    Carrie Paps

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    Jul 11 2012: My husband is bipolar, I know he would LOVE to be cured of that illness. He is medicated and has lost the creativity he had as a younger, unmedicated person. My question would be will he still have the personality and creativity as he did before? Or will he be "normal" without the creativity? For me, I would be happier for him to be cured. Without the spending sprees, the moods, the never knowing which person I am coming home to.

  • Conor Corrigan

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    Jul 11 2012: This is a loaded question.
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    Leo Walsh

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    Jul 11 2012: Why not? If it would make me more productive, I'd give it a try. But I would be wary--you may lose a gift inside of an illness. For instance, Einstein's dyslexia gave him unique ways of thinking. And Lincoln and Churchill's Depressions gave them a keen, penetrating insight into the world that many an overly optimistic outlook would likely have missed.
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      sarah boardman-miller

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      Jul 14 2012: Joel, such an amazing thought and question.

      Leo, you are spot on. Would the world lose out on some of the most incredible minds? I loathe to think of what this world would be like without people who have a spectrum of this, in my opinion a doorway into the mind that most do not have access to. Yes this sometimes comes at a very high price-ones health, suicide, inability to function.
      Thank you to all for sharing your lives and insight.

  • Amairani Benavides

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    Jul 10 2012: I have depression, anxiety, and something else that they say may be part of the autism spectrum disorder, and if there was ever a pill to cure it, I personally wouldn't take it for it would take away the parts of me the illness has made me...me. Pills I have taken before have taken away the creativity I rely and thrive on.

    A pill to cure the illness might just take away the unique parts of my personality, and who I know I am illness and all.

  • Karl Chen

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    Jul 8 2012: If the mental illness such as schizophrenia, I would take the pill. However, if one can come out of mental illness with help of medication then, depending on the time to recover, I would not. In the book "Great of Choice", I totally agree with Jim Collin's Epilogue. I agree and believe we all encounter good and bad lucks but when we encountered bad luck, we should not wallow in it. How we react to it define and shape who we are. There are people who will help you get through it.

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    • Conor Corrigan

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      Jul 11 2012: are there side effects of Lithium and Seroquel?
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        Carrie Paps

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        Jul 11 2012: Yes there are side effects with any medication, but it all depends on you personally react to them. What what person feels may not happen to you. I personally can't take one generic medication, but can take many others with no problems. Others I know can take that same med in a generic with no problem, but for me, I experience every single side effect for the worst.

        • Conor Corrigan

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          Jul 12 2012: I'm sorry that you have to take these.
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        Debra Smith 200+

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        Jul 12 2012: I am more sorry that they are not promptly improved once these side effects are documented. I grieve when I dissappoint my kids so that illustration brings it home to me profoundly.
        Thank you for answering my question too.
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        Carrie Paps

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        Jul 13 2012: Conor, I actually don't take them, my husband is Bipolar, I'm an advocate for him, so I know a lot about medications. It's always important to weight the side effects against the benefits of the medications. In my husbands case, he takes 4 meds, down from 5, but he is much better, stable, and has much better control of his feelings. We refer to his life as "before meds" and "after meds."
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      Leo Walsh

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      Jul 13 2012: Interesting conversation. I kept the personal out of it in my initial post, but now that I read yours, I realize I may have been too cautious.

      I think part of a "mental illness" is what you make of it. I went to college, grad school, and wrote two and a half novels. I was pretty much a gung-ho, fun-loving guy who could cook a meal, play jazz guitar, write computer programs in several languages, and spent his free time doing higher math problems.

      I was also able to see, in one quick glance, the entire answer to many business problems. Even when in high school, working in a kitchen of a full service restaurant, I sold the chef on a line arrangement that simplified our work, and made the kitchen easier to work with.

      Yet, I constantly forgot bills, even though I typically had thousands squirreled away in the bank. And don't get me started on the grief I caught for missed anniversaries, birthdays, etc.

      And then, in my 40's, I was diagnosed with a very severe case of ADHD. On a standardized test for ADHA, the TOVA test, I scored several standard deviations from the norm. I was prescribe Adderall. Which made me edgy, and too serious. My creativity shriveled. And I actually grew "short-tempered" with people, something which had never happened in the past.

      So I stopped taking it. I am again the creative fool. Playing on trampolines with my nephews. Writing again. And contemplating beginning an urban farm for profit.

      Maybe I'll take meds again. They did help me focus. But Adderall did alter my basic personality.
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