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If someone you knew was a pathological truth-teller; how would you react to this person?
Most of you have probably hear the term "pathological liar", meaning they lie all the time, from dusk til dawn. We all lie though, but too much lies can ruin any relationship. If there was no lies, but pure truth 24/7 360days a year for the rest of that persons' life, how would you react to this person?
Some have argued with me that we need lies to live for example, 'your best friends mother on her death bed asks you where her son is, and you couldn't tell her that her son has just died on an air plane that blew up just before landing, so you lie and tell her that his flight was cancelled and he says he loves you very much and you fill in the blanks with fond memories....now let's change that situation a bit....
Your best friend mother on her death bed asks for her son, but you know he just died on that exploding plane, so you give her the low down and tell her that his flight didn't make it here because his plane blew up, though he really loves you and he told me this before we got off the phone.
Two scenarios, both end the same, she passes away, but the details may be different depending on the individual.
A pathological truth-teller doesn't blurt things out though, like if they see something/someone they hate, they won't go I hate that thing over there and then proceed to tell the thing or person they hate it/them, though if they were asked to give an opinion they would tell the truth.
If you asked this person a question, they would answer you extremely truthfully and at times it might even seem offensive. For instance, you ask them "do I look good in this" and the pathological truth-teller says "it looks hideous on you, but you already tried all the clothes in this store and they all don't look good on you, so let's go to a store with a different style?".
How would you react to this person?
Update: This is a scenario of a world with pathological truth tellers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-H2dNfx-Uw
Closing Statement from Derek Young
All I could think of is "thank you for participating and hope the remnance of this discussion will shed light upon your life", though this topic is far from reaching any type of consensus; we can all strive to respect one another and live earnestly and honestly.
May you take positive leaps and bounds in your life.
Debra Smith 200+
Tanka Poudel
Too much of anything is bad. I would also feel sorry for a such a person as the one seems to be trapped in a prison created by nature itself
Salim Solaiman 50+
Derek Young 30+
Salim Solaiman 50+
S/he will be talking about anything good if I have which I will not be comfortable with....also very openly s/he will be talking about all my downsides....which will really be difficult to withstand for me being an average person........
We are comfortable with "MASK".....that's my opinion that anyone can disagree
sarah boardman-miller
It would seem a "truth blurter" would be one of those people that in whatever situation they say exactly whatever is on their mind regardless of the outcome. If one was listening to this person, would 100% of what they were "blurting" out be truth? Truth and opinions are two different things.
"Do I look good in this" is subjective. You could look amazing in something and ask the pathological truth teller and because they have to pee real bad or have something in their contact, they say whatever you want to hear. For that moment, that is their truth.
Sitting in counseling with someone that you trust and you might have been working on an issue that until this moment has alluded you. Today is the day that you hear the truth. Today is the day you put all the puzzle pieces together and are able to hear it.
Kids/babies are the only pathological truth tellers, that is until someone has told them to see the world differently. When a baby cries when it is being held by a stranger and stops crying when held by its mother, that is truth. We lose that ability and are told its rude.
Religions have their truths. They may not be the truths of everyone.
Truth of Evolution vs Creationism.
As we get older our truths become more opinions rather than truth.
Everett Johnson
if i don't want his opinion I won't ask him and i'll believe what I want.
sarah boardman-miller
Derek Young 30+
Hope that made sense sarah. =)
Derek Young 30+
I wasn't sure where to respond to your comment, so I will start this comment for your comments already made in the conversation, recently that is. =P
I found that many others in this conversation have used the term "truth" loosely as I did and I believe I should replace my use of truth with honest/y/ies, though truth seems to fall in place for my topic somehow, so I am not certain that I found a consensus in my judgement for what is "truth" and a "pathological truth teller". May I have some assisstance from you to bring my mind to a consensus?
Truth is, as James says, is something that exists; a pathological truth teller is more of a constantly honest person?
I am discovering new things about me as this conversation unfolds, so please bare with me on this journey into my mind. =P
Debra Smith 200+
I too am being wonderfully challenged to think and re-examine my thoughts. I love some of your theoretical work and would add that I had such strict parents that a directive to tell the truth meant -tell everything you know including the colour of your underwear. It took me sometime to realize that my thoughts belong to me and that I choose when and where to share them.
Part of what you seem to be discussing is perseveration which is common in prefrontal head injury.In Some cases people simply speak before their brain is in gear and comment relentlessly on whatever they observe. Quiet is an anathma to these fearful people.
Dan Geurin 10+
Derek Young 30+
Debra Smith 200+
Debra Smith 200+
If a person is committed to a life of truth telling, self-sacrifice -in geater and lessor ways is part of it. IN order to tell the truth all the time one must be prepared to face the music in life, or the firing squad in corporations or be prepared for the poop to hit the fan. Corporations in my opinion are allergic to truth at the customer centric level. At the top they espouse it but like harsh parents, they often make lying far more rewarded and punish truth that they do not enjoy. If they blew it on a major account or city by denying the customer what they need by refusing to ship it into the country when the accounnt uses tons of a product and few others do, this is a defensible corporate position but they have to then realize that this loss of account was by their own choice and own up; Telling or reminding them of the truth is then quite unpopular. If you tell your friend about her huzbands affair you have to be prepared for the fall out (I sure would have appreciated a heads up and not shot the mesager but many others do shoot the messanger..
Debra Smith 200+
Your point in your final paragraph is excellent. I call being successful at that being our 'best selves". If not for our loved ones. for whom would we do it? I love how charitable your final anlysis is. Yes, people get swamped and try to 'cope" which produces even more rubbish in the world. I like the way you framed that - it expands my way of thinkning. Thanks for that. Improper use of power is a perfect example, to my mind and at one time or other most people have done so..
sarah boardman-miller
We all self sacrifice in one way or another. Big or small, it happens.
If one looks in the mirror everyday and really looks, it is hard not to want to be the best that you can be regardless of who is around.
James McGuiness
Derek Young 30+
Currently right now, you say that that truths are seperate from fact, and I'm thinking "how is he so confident that what he is currently elaborating is a fact and/or truth?", so the relevance to fact and/or truth is relevant to who you speak to.
For instance, Pluto was considered our ninth planet, but then astronomers found that it wasn't because it is actually more closely related to the Kaiper belt objects, though some still stick to their belief that Pluto is still a planet. The astronomers strived to find a universal definition for what a planet is, but I believe there is no solid consensus currently, so "what is fact" and "what is truth" in this situation; it seems different depending on the individual.
Though, we can both agree that we have similarities that unite us, but we are still different enough to see different meanings in a similar topic; fascinating how that happens. All of this is my personal perception through my experiences.
Thanks for reading my thoughts. =)
James McGuiness
It's critically important in the course of a human life time to get to a place where you understand that there's a difference between existence and perception. Two centuries ago only 6 planets were known to exist. That doesn't mean the rest didn't exist--it means we didn't have the technology or reason yet to detect them. There are still plenty of things on our own planet, out in space or even in our own minds that we don't understand everything about and may never, but they continue on their merry courses regardless of who discovers or ignores them and what they call them. Perception is not reality--and if we fail to sort that out, we are "inside a box" where we can be manipulated by those who will tell you anything to get you to side with them.
Derek Young 30+
Derek Young 30+
James McGuiness
Debra Smith 200+
JaeHun Shin
Derek Young 30+
Debra Smith 200+
Rob Clark
walter crockett
Mireille Chéry
For the purpose of this discussion, I will start by saying : Ouff, a bit rough to be a "pathalogical truth teller or a pathalogical-liar".
I believe in telling the truth all the way, so you don't have to remember, what you told this person last time, and keep the lie going on, you can become mentally ill...to much to process, unhealthy etc.
It's all depends on how you tell the truth. If this pathalogical truth teller you talking about, is more of a person that consciously hurt other people feelings, for his or her own purpose of feeling better about his or herself, who need these people...they can eat grass, as far that I know!
On the other hand, if you are telling me truth to help me grow, change for the best of whom I can become, I can deal with it better...furthermore, this pathalogical truth teller, has to be able, to listen the truth about him or herself to, it as to be a two ways streets. I you want to tell ME my truths, you better be able to ear YOUR truths from me! It's a give and take situation here!!
At the end, it's all about a good dosage in everything, and also, if you can send it, you better be able to receive it!!
James McGuiness
Mireille Chéry
Cheers!!
Derek Young 30+
For example, one person might think the truth that vanilla ice cream is the best flavor in the world to ever be invented, then another person comes by and yells that strawberry ice cream is the best flavor in the world. Another scenario has already been played out, like the holocaust. One group of individual believe the truth that their race was superior and they were mandated by a higher calling to wipe the earth of other races; I personally don't believe that is the truth, do you?
Debra Smith 200+
Leo Taylor
So If i met that truthful person..... I would like to ask them how they do socially, in business, with loved one or children. What methods do they use to tell the truth and incorporate tact. How do they demur a question. or do they consider that in itself lying. etc
Derek Young 30+
But the only problem (which is normally reoccurring) is that everyone usually assumes that the scenario in the clothes store is a girl, but I challenge the idea to say it is a guy. =P
I often ask other people, usually, if what I wear looks decent. Just my honesty. =)
Leo Taylor
Debra Smith 200+
Ed Schulte 50+
Pathologies are conditions of the Egoic mind.
One who could tell nothing but "Truth" would have to have a completely tamed ego ...in which case the "reaction" would be to give recognition to that person being as an "Attained BEing"........Eckhard Tolle is currently the most accessible example.
Derek Young 30+
Could you elaborate a bit more about attained being, egoic mind, and Eckhard Tolle?
Also, someone in this conversation that said something about truth being relative to the individual and the better term may be honesty. Possibly that indvidual tells nothing but their honest answer, as far as their knowledge can stretch?
Ed Schulte 50+
yes this approach to truth applies in the Dualistic realm .
those that tell/do what appears to be a "non-truth" to others....are doing what They think is best for them ( iow best for their ego/personality) ...therefore it is a "relative truth" to them.
conforming to your ./ others pointer
.."Possibly that indvidual tells nothing but their honest answer, as far as their knowledge can stretch? "
John Penn
For example: A blunt statement will be perceived differently depending on whether its delivered by a typically tactful person, or a typically blunt person.
For me, the topic question doesn't seem hypothetical. For the past 27 years, I've known a person who I believe fits your description of "Pathological truth teller".
She wouldn't have told the woman her son was dead, but she typically made a terrible first impression on new people she met.
The first time I met her, I thought she was very rude. But, people who had known her for a long time seemed completely comfortable around her, and unphased by her apparent rudeness.
As I got to know her, I too became very comfortable around her. She wasn't malicious. She didn't have hidden agendas. You didn't have to watch your back around her. You always knew where you stood. She was very trustworthy. She loved her family and we loved her.
Derek Young 30+
There was an insightful comment made that I would like to note made by Steve C (below).
"It only becomes pathological when they believe that the facts are more important than me."
So, your friend probably takes some consideration of your feelings, but is generally really blunt?
John Penn
Regarding your first paragraph, she wouldn't have made the first comment and I would never have had reason to ask the second.
Derek Young 30+
Thanks for the clarification John. =)
Myra Sohail
Derek Young 30+
I definitely agree with your comment.
In addition, I would llike to add that, being prepared for the unknown is the best way for preventing something bad from happening. Sometimes discussing something hypothetical, but still realistic, will prepare you for the worst. It is like saying that "hypothetical disasters aren't important to prepare for", but if disaster hits, then preparing for it will help most, unless you make really great split second choices.
Jim Croasmun
Could I "handle the truth" from reading people's minds? As a teenager, I don't think I could, but I'd value the total honesty from being able to do so if I could now.
Derek Young 30+
Derek Young 30+
Jim Croasmun
Derek Young 30+
Random Chance 30+
I believe very strongly that too many people worship lies. First they were taught untruths, so that hearing the truth upsets them. If one were raised with the truth, my feeling or sense of it is that they would welcome it, deal with it and be grateful for it.
And it is very subtle. So much so that most cannot recognize it and resist seeing it. I have a friend who is owed a lot of money for work they did but the person who owes them has suddenly told them their work is no good and so, viola, a reason not to pay them. What they have done is worked out a deal to get only one sixth of what they are owed, by doing even more work, which adds up to working for nothing. When I told them what to do to get their money, they resisted, saying that if they did that, they wouldn't get any money and that would be the truth. But not getting paid is the lie and it is the lie they are settling for and accepting as the truth, when it is anything but.
As things continue the way they are going, the only power and weapon the average citizen will have is the truth and it is very powerful but it has to be awakened, put into action and trusted. It is being buried too quickly and as one might imagine, you cannot cover up the truth with truths, you can only cover it up with lies.
Derek Young 30+
It is very true! People accept non-truths/dishonesty as their reality and it becomes their own personal lie.
I have seen too many times when people lie to themselves that they don't deserve better or that they don't have a better choice, and we all know there are usually more than one choice in any given situation. Some choices are obscure and some choices are the choices less taken, but are still these choices are there for a reason.
I wonder if there is such a term as a pathological self-liar?
joy faber 10+
Debra Smith 200+
sandra tapper
And you are right that if said person has a personal history of lying they are more likely to suspect the same in other people. Yes, it would take some special effort for that person to begin healing. A good therapist is invaluable and can point out the errors in a persons critical thinking skills. A highly skilled therapist. I do find though that most people only tell the truth when it does not hurt them. If lying is expedient, most (not all) people will indulge. That is why any business deal must be on paper.
Hey, oddly enough I listened to a podcast on lying on How Stuff Works. Listen if you are interested.
http://www.howstuffworks.com/podcasts/stuff-you-should-know.rss
Debra Smith 200+
sandra tapper
Your insight about "unimportant stuff distorted my world" was very telling. Pathological liars are known for creating their own reality.
Debra Smith 200+
Derek Young 30+
Selvakumar C
In most cases the truth that is twisted or presented in tactful manner as they call is definitely not truth.
Debra Smith 200+
Steve C
"...your breath stinks," is fine if they know you really do care for them - and they have enough integrity to appreciate that care.
Steve C
Many do prefer the easy way, it seems. But perhaps they have their own hard choices.
Truth that is "tactful" does not really seem like the truth - nor even the most important thing that could be said in a situation - "Your goldfish is dead," is useful knowledge; "I feel bad for you," may be more important.
I think I'd appreciate a truth-teller. It only becomes pathological when they believe that the facts are more important than me.
Derek Young 30+
Steve C
I'll restate "...are more important than me," means "...pathological when... facts are more important than an equality of openheartedness." I think.
Perhaps the pathological truth-teller is the "heads" to the "tails" of a pathological liar. Both may give a lot, but withhold what really matters.
David Barnett 20+
Don Wesley 50+
Derek Young 30+
That won't be possible because most lotteries are done by random, as far as my knowledge knows, it's still random even if we ask the lottery makers.
Don Wesley 50+
In building a Cathedral of Truth, they will be the Key-Stone to the Arch.
Don
Derek Young 30+
Don Wesley 50+
Don Wesley 50+
Beware of danger.
(2) I would tell the woman on her death bed, that her son is waiting for her.
(3) As for the woman experimenting with clothes, I would tell her she is a looker. And give her score of 100; pause, reflect, then say, "and at 10 feet you look awful."
Remember, I am just throwing ideas into the conversation.
joy faber 10+
Don Wesley 50+
I have been married since 1954.
She is beautiful to me at any distance. She is my soulmate, on occasion she was a little too devilish, and I did take off a few points.
She has often said, I "was" the kindess man she has ever known.
Joy, in all truth, you look beautiful in your picture.
Don
joy faber 10+