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Thinking The Unthinkable

I am in the process of writing a script, because I want to create something I personally will enjoy and something that is new, original and different. Surely all ideas cannot have already been thought. As I began searching the principals of a new thought I have become more and more intrigued.
Is there such thing as a new thought?
Is every thought originally from a combination of other thoughts?
If thoughts come form our environment then does the discovery of something new create new thoughts or have any impact at all?
I don't even know what I'm getting at. Your thoughts?

  • Jun 14 2012: Interesting thought.

    There are new thoughts, just that there's probably no new concepts.
    I think i can scale the wall with a rope (500 BC)
    I think i can scale the building with suction cups (2012)
    I think I could scale the wall with a photon gun (2040)

    Kinda like the theory that there are no new stories to tell when they're boiled down, just different ways to tell them as society 'evolves' (and I use that term loosely).

    If you want to come up with new thoughts and creative ideas on your own - try researching sensory deprivation plunging you into a world of your own mind and see what it has to tell you. Try inventing a story with a word you've only ever seen in a dictionary definition. Try explaining something you can't see and are not educated on.

    It doesn't matter if someone else has thought the idea, they didn't think it like you do. If you do something similar to my suggestions, you aren't going to derive your idea on the thought based on another person's notions. It'll be your take on the idea with no outside influence and that will make it truly original.

    Good luck!


    I think
  • Jun 12 2012: I am not sure you are getting the kind of answers you want, so here are my thoughts:

    "Is there such thing as a new thought?"

    Yes, definitely. New thoughts are the basis of human progress.

    "Is every thought originally from a combination of other thoughts?"

    In my opinion new thoughts are usually a new way of combining other thoughts. These are very valuable contributions. And, rarely, new thoughts are entirely new. Any new thought occurs in a specific context. This context includes the person's language, culture, location, education and experience. It seems to me that we are all immersed in old thoughts, and therefore a completely new thought must be based on unique experience.

    "If thoughts come form our environment then does the discovery of something new create new thoughts or have any impact at all?"

    Absolutely, this is a common phenomenon. A new invention can trigger a series of new inventions, many of them having nothing to do with the first invention. This is a form of inspiration. A new idea can trigger creativity in others.

    Hope this helps.

    On a personal level, I have had new thoughts. Most of these thoughts were just strange ideas that were completely useless. Nevertheless, I felt very confident that nobody had ever thought that particular thought before.
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    Jun 11 2012: It is not possible to prove a thought has never been experienced before. What is possible is to prove no verifiable action has been taken on a thought before.
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    Jun 12 2012: There are several assertions related to this:

    1. Logical framework related to thinking is a structure as a boundary for possible thinking activity (It's land for thinking activity)

    2. Logical framework could be created physically within our brain, and further could be expanded through physically or seeing different perspectives:

    Imagine, we build many roads & we create routes (addresses), we create a map to represent it. We could change the map without changing roads & routes, because somehow our imaging through satellite didn't cover all available routes. By expanding our imaging, we could update the map. It's an updated logical framework (map) through (adding) different perspectives (routes)

    3. Thinking is activities by associating & connecting among associated proportionally, then tracing limits between them.

    4. The structure of thinking is always derived from realities (empirical, spiritual or any kind of realities within any possible dimensions)

    5. We couldn't think beyond available logical framework that already structured.

    6. BECAUSE WE WERE VERY DILIGENT to explore any possible routes, we knew new routes, & we said "eureka". I may be call it "CREATIVITY THROUGH WORK HARD, intensive research".

    7. Subconscious could give us facts about previously unknown routes (different perspectives), and we call it as CREATIVITY THROUGH INTUITION.

    Conclusion:

    - Creativity could be conducted by finding new routes (different perspectives) to the specific address (for the specific purpose) within logical framework. Originality came from this way, may be considered as PERSONAL ORIGINALITY.

    - Further department of patent & trademark told us that our personal originality is GENERAL ORIGINALITY or failed.

    Thinking is within available framework and Unthinkable is merely subconscious acts that track silently (unthinkable) .

    Please refer to my post for further info: http://seremonia.blogspot.com/2012/06/logical-thinking-creativity-originality.html

    Less or more ...
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      Jun 13 2012: Interesting. How ever creativity is not solely connected to logic. Creativity only uses logic, like it uses knowledge and emotion. In fact, most of the work the brain does is not logical, even making decisions.

      http://www.bigthink.com/experts-corner/decisions-are-emotional-not-logical-the-neuroscience-behind-decision-making

      So how do emotions and feelings work into your logical model?
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        Jun 13 2012: Hi

        Thank you for the link http://www.bigthink.com/experts-corner/decisions-are-emotional-not-logical-the-neuroscience-behind-decision-making

        Creativity uses logical framework to be known by us. When we make any decision, logical framework is a must. Why?

        Logical thinking should be conducted by us to survive or to seek a chance for enjoyment. Whether we realize or not, even for the slightest piece of logical thinking, we did it to make sure whether our desire could be put on reality.

        When someone wants to go swimming strongly (emotional), but logical thinking will tell us there is no chance to go swimming (because we couldn't swim and no one accompany us to help). This logical thinking could stop emotional decision by merely switching from one desire to another desire (from go swimming to don't want to be drawn into the water and died).

        When someone said: "we should use logical thinking before we make decision". We could understand it as, we should:

        - use our logical thinking to let us track within logical framework, whether we should stick on one desire as TOLERANCE, since there is no other desire that could be implemented on reality within specific moment.

        - use our logical thinking to let us track within logical framework, whether we should replace (make CORRECTION on) our specific desire with another desire to maintain safety as a way to make a correction, or

        - use our logical thinking to let us track within logical framework,whether there is another desire other than current state, that could be considered as replacement (COMPENSATION).

        We use logical thinking before we make decision to make sure, whether:

        - there is better emotional could be realized
        - there is better survival could be realized
        - there is stronger & better emotional could be a replacement for previous emotional
        - there is strongest & better survival could be a replacement for previous emotional

        more ..
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        Jun 13 2012: Hi

        Emotion may be a decision maker, but logical thinking could direct us to a different emotions. That's what decisions by logical thinking are for. To let us see the land of opportunity, so our characters (possible emotions) could be fulfilled at the correct time and sufficient.

        When someone asked, why our logical thinking couldn't be accepted by someone? Then we shouldn't have to stop our thinking for making a decision, but may be it's because our logical thinking couldn't put someone to another better or stronger emotional feeling that could be considered as a better replacement (according to specific moment).

        //So how do emotions and feelings work into logical model?//

        Within logical framework, our emotional was placed on specific address (on specific route of specific road).

        The art of making someone agree to specific direction, is by guiding someone using logical thinking (since this is a vehicle to go through possibilities), tracking any possible routes that has something offering a better food or a better security, AND IN LINE with our purpose.

        For example, we need someone to do reading. We can do by:

        - We should understand what is most favorite from someone to be read. It needs logical thinking to track someone's favorite. But it's not enough.

        - We need further, to know what is the current state of someone's emotional. Whether at current time someone doesn't want to read something and rather wants to do swimming. It needs (again) logical thinking to track current desire.

        - Now, the most crucial of our thinking, is by trying to find out (again, using logical thinking) whether there is a book that could attract someone better to leave current activity (swimming). If we couldn't find it, we still could find another activity other than reading that could distract current emotional to move to a better and strongest emotional level other than swimming.

        more ...
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        Jun 13 2012: Hi

        CREATIVITY

        - Somehow BECAUSE WE WERE VERY DILIGENT to explore any possible routes, then suddenly we knew new routes (previously unknown routes - different perspectives), and we said "eureka". We may call it creativity, intuition or anything, but i may call it "CREATIVITY THROUGH WORK HARD, intensive research".

        - Subconscious insertion 1. By adding new framework without changing available framework by adding different perspectives, and we call it as CREATIVITY THROUGH INTUITION (metaphysics or similar to this).

        This insertion (adding different perspectives) could be done (by subconscious), through forcing us by accident to track within logical framework on different starting point (different routes) to reach the specific target (find another way to reach the specific address). THIS PREVIOUSLY UNKNOWN ROUTES will be a part of a map (updated map).

        - Subconscious insertion 2. By expanding new framework by adding physically new framework (but not by adding different perspectives), and we call it as CREATIVITY THROUGH INTUITION (metaphysics or similar to this).

        It could be done by pushing us silently to experience something in our real life to support insertion (creation - physically) new logical framework (without exploring different perspectives) within our brain.

        It has the purpose to tell us there are new routes that placed outside our framework (unknown routes outside current framework), that could be connected to current framework & could lead us to know real new routes to specific target. This real new routes (it wasn't previously unknown routes) automatically inserted within our brain as new neural network physically.

        We may call it creativity, intuition, a sight, BUT IT NEEDS (NOT ALWAYS) a trigger from ourselves to activate search action (tracking) by subconscious (the trigger is our own strong desire to wish for something), and subconscious will continue working silently to find out new routes (inside/out of current framework) for us.
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        Jun 13 2012: Hi

        The points are:

        - We still need logical thinking to track possibilities among logical framework to find out whether there is another better restaurant on different route (address) that could fulfill our desire for better health and better secure, for better happiness.

        - We could follow someone's desire without making any decision based on logical thinking, BUT we still need the slightest piece of logical thinking to make sure whether that desire could be realized safely.

        - Or we could direct someone to another better desire by showing to someone a better emotional as correction, or to another better emotional as compensation.

        - But we couldn't do something using logical thinking to make a decision for someone, if, our logical thinking lead someone to emotional feeling which is not a part of someone's self.

        - We use decision making based on logical thinking by tracking possible emotional feelings on someone, and choose one of them that relevant to specific situation.

        - Last and most crucial, creativity uses logical framework to be known by us.

        I agree that emotional is capable to make a decision, but i disagree that we couldn't make decision through logical thinking.

        But yes, decision making logically is not the way to force someone to do something. It won't work on that way.

        Decision making through logical thinking is not a necessity for someone. But decision making is finding alternate emotional feelings (STILL THROUGH logical thinking within logical framework) to find out possible emotional feelings to support specific purpose. This is decision making we should do. Through logical goes to a stronger and better emotional that support specific purpose.

        Warmest
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          Jun 13 2012: Sorry dude, I disagree on so many many levels. If we made decisions based on logic, no one would be fat, or a drug addict, or homeless.

          You see, what we desire is not logical. Most people will make decisions based on their desires, not logic. This is true in our relationships to each other, our business decisions, what we will wear today.

          Have you ever seen someone make a decision that is not logical? You cannot argue them out of it because the decision is not based on reason or logic. In fact, if you want to change someones mind, you cannot do that through logic. You have to address the underlying emotional need they are seeking to medicate.

          Then there is the whole piece of art where there is no logic. Only emotion. In fact, many many artists suspend the logic and self talk during the creation of their art. This is seen both in the fine arts as well as physical expression of creativity such as dance and living art. Logic has no place here whatsoever.

          You might be able to argue some logic in music but even then, the creation of musical pieces do no use a logic model. Only when you are applying the music so others can join is a logical process initiated.

          Your model is very interesting and I do appreciate you sharing. I think many people do think that way and it is helpful in my understanding of how you and other think. Thank you so very much.
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        Jun 14 2012: Hi

        As you said: "You have to address the underlying emotional need they are seeking to medicate." I agree as i already mentioned:

        We use logical thinking before we make decision to make sure, whether:

        - there is better emotional could be realized
        - there is better survival could be realized
        - ... etc

        We know someone with "emotional need they are seeking to medicate", & we use logical thinking to find out whether "there is better survival could be realized" to help someone's "emotional need they are seeking to medicate". And if we failed (couldn't find a better one), we will be stuck on previous emotion ("emotional need they are seeking to medicate").

        I believe there is decision based outside logic. Besides, how could we remember something we already forgot? Did we track our logical framework to find out where the forgotten was? No. We need a trigger by thinking what was the forgotten, the rest was tackled (continued) by subconscious (IN LINE WITH THINKING) by tracking our framework silently, without being noticed by us (we were unaware of what node had already tracked by subconscious), and we were waiting for the answer (we forgot), ... but then, suddenly it came out to us & we said "now i remember".

        It's two worlds within ourselves, thinking & feeling. We could provide a decision making through thinking management or we could provide a decision making through emotional management. But i'd rather discuss mostly about how thinking produce originality (through the work of subconscious) in line with thinking.

        Yes, Linda, thank you very much for appreciating it.

        Further, please, if you want to read my post related to how we provide decision making using emotional management, please refer to this link http://seremonia.blogspot.com/2011/03/feeling-and-emotion-related-to-decision.html

        Warmest
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    Jun 12 2012: I assume everything you can think of, is thought of before by someone at some time.

    Thinking is recombining thoughts in variant ways.
    New thoughts can enter your mind by encoding concepts into speech that have a universal source. Speech relates to the environment so it can't represent every thought of a different origin without translating it into symbols. These symbols are only understood by people that had similar thoughts while other people will think it mumble jumble or are making it into something different, something they know.

    So nothing is unthinkable about everything that was created so far and has already shaped the future and, unthinkable is nothing for it isn't created yet.
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    Jun 11 2012: Sometimes the most creative ideas come from kids. They don't have preconceived thinking to block new ideas. One time when my son was about 6 or 7 years old I asked him how he thought up ideas and created new things out of discarded items. He thought about it a long time. Then, one day we were studying bees and how a hive works. He told me that was exactly how his brain worked. He said he tells one of the bees what the problem is. The bee takes it back to the hive where all the bees work on it. Then one bee pops into his head with the answer he needs.

    That was the best description of thought and sub-conscious processing I have ever heard.
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    Jun 11 2012: I've read that some writers describe creating a song or story as plucking it from the ether, already formed, that it had always existed and they simply put it on paper.

    I've experienced this perception myself when writing poems and songs where it feels like I was a conduit for something external from myself.

    I think that in reality, the concepts and ideas behind the song bubble away barely noticed as they float to the surface of your mind for perusal over time and then sink again. Through this ephemeral process, they alter, polish, change, shift, are added to and so on until a critical mass is reached at which time the writer feels the urge to sit down and write.

    You can force this process (that's a writer's job) but even then, the writer is tapping into this strange, creative process.

    So, I believe that new ideas come from old ideas, observations and opinions. But they are new because we all have a slightly different experience, a different approach to meaning.

    http://theslacks.bandcamp.com/track/8am

    Above is a link to a song that I wrote that felt like it came from the ether. In reality, I had been musing over the rise of antidepressants, working a job you hate out of some sense of duty/work ethic and my annoyance at never-ending advertisements trying to tell me who I am and what I want in order to sell me some crap.
    • Jun 11 2012: Scott,

      Bob Dylan often said this of many of his songs. He would say "It was already there, I just sort of pulled it down.."
      The Rose" by McBroom was also written this way. The story goes she was driving down the highway when the whole complete song sort of came to here. Fell in her lap. She had to concentrate on her driving and hurry home to write the whole thing down.

      I also write songs. I can sometime "tune in" to a feeling or an idea ... and then spin on it .... press it up into a corner and see where it goes from there. Take it out for a walk and see what it meets.. The process can take days.

      Twins can sometimes have the same thought at the same moment. Ring each other on the telephone...

      We could ask ourselves if it can be possible that the ideas exist already. The great philosopher Goethe was onto something like this. The "Ideal plant"

      Even one of the great scientists that built the A bomb told in a book I read many many years ago that he could find answers in his sleep or out in the garden the elemental beings would talk to him.... tell him things.... secrets ... I can't remember his name. Wonder if it was Oppenheimer.
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        Jun 12 2012: Richard Feynman?

        It's a mystery that I prefer to stay a mystery. All these brain scientists and new age techno-humans can externalise and discuss the creative process all they like.

        I prefer to do it rather than talk about it. Much more satisfying.
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    Jun 11 2012: Some of the most original thoughts arrive when we are 'not thinking' - and when we are in an 'alpha state'. This is when the distracting noise of the conscious mind is switched off or dormant, allowing the unconscious thoughts to come through. The unconscious mind is where most original thoughts come from.

    It doesn't always work, but try remembering your dreams and write them down before you forget (keep a notebook or voice recorder by your bed). Also leave time in the day for meditation and daydreaming (not always possible!)

    The nearer you get to alpha state, the more original and creative your ideas may be.
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    Jun 11 2012: Yes all of our thoughts are the result of evolved knowledge. The human race is putting together a puzzle, every generation adds pieces. Some individuals add more than others and for this they go down in history. The longer and harder we work on the puzzle the clearer the image becomes. Everyone is a part of this even if they do not recognize it.

    However, your thoughts only add a piece to the puzzle if you speak it or share it. A thought which never leaves the mind of the thinker is useless except if it contributes to another thought.

    Try this exercise: Visualize something you have never seen before in your mind. It seems easy... at first.
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    Jun 11 2012: Your best chance of coming up with something novel, given the combinatorial nature of creativity is to notice what's around you and to seek different combinations of experiences than other people typically have. The more similar the collection of experiences from which you are drawing combinations, the more likely your ideas are to be somewhat familiar to people. Exploring a different range of ideas and situations from what is typical for those in your field is a promising strategy.
    New things happen, whether natural phenomena or technological interventions. These have effects that had not been seen specifically or necessarily foreseen. So one way of doing something new- a common one, really, is to explore something that has just happened, bringing to that the collection of ideas and experiences unique to you.
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    Jun 11 2012: I dont know if I got your question or not.

    Some time back I was thinking what can be done to save plane from crashing or at least minimize the percentage of plane crashes. Then I thought maybe a big & strong parachute for planes may help.

    Maybe I was thinking the unthinkable ?