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Stewart Gault

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Why do we let this happen in the world?

http://richarddawkins.net/articles/646137-south-korea-surrenders-to-creationist-demands

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    Jun 5 2012: What do you propose ? South Korea is a sovereign state which is predominantly Christian. What they do is their business. When the US & UK were Christian they preached the gospel & thrived. Now it's South Korea's turn, more power to them.

    :-)
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      Jun 5 2012: So breed ignorance into the foundation of a country, why should we allow a group of people who have no scientific basis to refute evolution to decide what to teach in the science class. It is this kind of attitude towards science that put Islamic countries into the awful state they're into after a prophet or something like that (forget his name) started preaching that science was created by the devil and is evil. It is that kind of intolerance to truth that breeds regression into societies. If they said to not teach the big bang and nebular theory and pretty much all of physics just to drill home a 6000 year old earth there would be global outcry. You can't just refute science cause you don't like it, even the dam pope accepts evolution. And also by your logic religion doctrine is what should be taught in schools so you're actually pro ignorance, pro stupidity, anti reason, anti free thought. And the day abiogenesis finally works will be the day religion has to give up and stay out of schools and out of children's educations, have a god if you want but science will forever bring out much more truth beauty and wisdom into this world than a belief in an ancient Israelite book which promotes slavery and the murder of homosexuals. Science is the way forward and this is just an example of people trying to hamper human progress.
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        Jun 5 2012: Hi Stewart.
        This isn't the place to argue the pros & cons of evolution v creationism, but the fact remains that very many qualified scientists see major scientific problems with evolution, big bang etc. You talk of tolerance, but clearly have little of it yourself on this subject. The scientists of today stand on the shoulders of great men who had no problem with creation, do you really expect every scientist to fall in lne with each new theory that comes along ?
        If we create life in the lab, which we may, all that we will have achieved is proof that intelligence can produce life. At the moment we go with the law of biogenesis; as that can be demonstrated scientifically.
        You are correct that science is a major tool in development, but false science is a distraction. At any rate historical science is a small ingredient in the mix, & what South Korea choses to teach it's children is neither here or there in the scheme of things. More important is financial prudence, where we have dropped the ball completely.

        :-)
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          Jun 5 2012: there's no need for tolerance of what a christian feels should be taught in a science class, it should be what a scientist feels, if the reason against teaching scientific fact is because a book worshiped by someone disagrees with it then there's still no evidence against teaching it, either prove the book or keep it at home, these children will be denied a full, modern education in biology and could inherently prevent (potentially) one of the greatest biologists ever to be from studying biology at uni etc because they were not taught evolution in school which is probably followed by an attack on evolution in there equivalent of a Sunday school.
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          Jun 6 2012: Peter,
          No offense, but from what you post I don't think you've read and understood anything about evolution. I know that there is a lot of Intelligent Design litterature. But have you read any books written by real evolutionnary biologists such as Dawkins?
          Also I don't think you know what "demonstrated scientifically" means.

          And I don't think you know what "theory" means.
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          Jun 8 2012: There is a great need for real religious education. Many secular people only know the views of the vocal fundamentalists and so cast all people of faith as dimwits.

          Unfortunately, a little knowledge can be highly damaging, and I'm sorry but reading Richard Dawkins does not make anyone an expert in either science or religion. For a scientist, Dawkins is remarkably closed minded, which actually makes him a poor scientist.

          As a foil to "The God Delusion" try reading "The Case for God" by Karen Armstrong or Mark Tully's book "India's Unending Journey". Don't panic - neither are evangelical, but will help to take the sting out your tail.
        • Jun 9 2012: Hey peter,
          In reply to Stewart you said, "You are correct that science is a major tool in development, but false science is a distraction." Since there is a debate, one might conclude that it has been neither adequately proven or disproven therefor, neither proven true or false. Which, you may have meant to imply since you also said, "South Korea choses to teach it's children i(t)s neither here or there in the scheme of things."

          It is ok to not have the answers to some questions. The problem occurs when we just make up answers instead of being honest to ourselves (and others) in saying first, “we don’t’ know”, and then (if the question is well founded) searching for the answer in a logical, evidence based manner which is open to peer review with the requirement that it must be a repeatable and predictable in result.

          You also said, “If we create life in the lab, which we may, all that we will have achieved is proof that intelligence can produce life.” And thus is the problem with intelligent design; It doesn’t really explain anything. Natural disasters have happened naturally throughout history. So, if one day we learn how to make a hurricane (with our intelligence), does that mean that we must have made all previous hurricanes too? No, but we probably would have learned quite a bit about hurricanes in the process- and how they happened naturally. It is a fact that evolution happens, that is not under debate. But what is being debated is exactly how far back it goes. And, the truth is “we don’t know,” but we do have strong evidence to suggest that it goes back much further than 10,000 years ago when we evolved to have blue eyes.

          So, it’s “…neither here or there…” might be fine for the Koreans who are not students of science. And, sure they have the right to teach them what they want. But, those who pursue science need to be educated in not only the methods of strong logic, but also the subjects their future community seeks to explore.
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          Jun 9 2012: Robert I wouldn't say that the SK government has the right to teach their kids whatever they want, that opens a huge pot of immoral and ignorant consequences, I think it severely handicaps their children's education, imagine a SK student coming to the UK for university to study biology and asking a professor what is evolution. It completely destroys all chance of them getting an honest scientific education.
        • Jun 10 2012: A sad day indeed.

          But, we cannot control everything, nor should we. The best world, in my opinion, is one that allows for the freest possible open exchange of information and ideas. And, to control that, is to only limit our selves. HOWEVER, anyone who develops their ideas in a fashion where they only seek to prove their own beliefs, and not simply the truth, limits themself in a way which will put them far behind a scientifically developed understanding of the truth.

          Here is a small example of this:

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIMifWU5ucU
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        Jun 6 2012: Hi Stewart.

        "there's no need for tolerance of what a christian feels should be taught in a science class, it should be what a scientist feels"
        I agree; let the Korean scientists decide what is relevant to them. None of our business.
        Neither has it anything to do with Bibles or Korans. It has to do with science, pure & simple. If the Koreans don't teach their children science, then they will be the ones to suffer. They have obviously looked at the science & decided against evolution. I can understand that; I can't see the justification for it either.

        :-)
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          Jun 6 2012: you clearly didn't read the article, it was a christian petition that got evolution removed from the textbooks.
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        Jun 6 2012: Hi Gerald.
        No offence taken. My degree of understanding of evolution has no bearing on the question. My point is only that the Koreans have every right to teach their children as they see fit. If we don't like it then tough.
        " In the 1960s, GDP per capita was comparable with levels in the poorer countries of Africa and Asia. In 2004, South Korea joined the trillion dollar club of world economies, and currently is among the world's 20 largest economies."
        https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ks.html

        Maybe, just maybe they know what they are doing.

        :-)
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          Jun 7 2012: Can you tell stewart also that as much as the Muslims have alot of covenants and secret scrolls and secrets to be protected. these famous scientists in thier days had to avoid having an opinion and dicoveries as the CHURCHES and Kings and Queens would of had the put to death. So let olone them having a a religion they didnt know the love of Godly and Spiritual people. But I can garentee People like Einstein in there last moments and it is written and witnessed cried out for forgivenes and the love of Jesus. "Genesis Enigma" he asked me about the book and maybe both Gerard and Stewart should read it. I didnt learn much at school and I certainly have not been an academic and only started to read the Bible 17 years ago and learnt to read. I really enjoy reading books like this now and sorry you are so angry stuart. I dont need the criticism and turn me off ther books I have been able to fill in alot of gaps. Geology and Science mean alot more to me now the book it was given to me by and beautiful old man at my work; doesnt talk anything religion or speak much just thought after I was telling him about the Bible. I might like to read!
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        Jun 6 2012: Hi Stewart.

        "The campaign was led by the Society for Textbook Revise (STR)"

        "The society says that its members include professors of biology and high-school science teachers."

        "STR is an independent offshoot of the Korea Association for Creation Research (KACR)"

        "Even the nation’s leading science institute — the Korea Advanced Institute of Science and Technology — has a creation science display on campus. "

        "The institute also has a thriving Research Association for Creation Science, run by professors and students, he adds."

        Yes it was a Christian petition, but it seems pretty well embedded in mainstream science as well. Maybe I'm biased.

        :-)
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        Jun 6 2012: sorry Stewart just on before politics/science
        Yahweh
        It is discovered that the book of genesis wasn’t written by Moses alone. With my lack of knowledge of this book and I believe in I'm going to find it hard to explain to you, but ill try. It is supposed that genesis has been written by a number of sources as it is called in this book. these sources (4 or 5 of them) d, e, f, g say; when the research that has been done on the book Genesis and through archaeological references and history that the scribers are from different areas and tribes that they can tell that analytically and psychological reference that the scribers or individual writers were influenced and had geological, economical pressures and influences in their writing at that time which is why they know that Moses didn’t write it on his own. also they were all related and are say priests or scholars entrusted by Moses and it goes on in the book Genesis Enigma in the appendix; of the book because I started reading there at the back. when it goes into details and it is written in the Bible too that these respected sources have to write and are entrusted in writing the scripts have to re right, was them selves if using the words Yahweh for example; and if they make one letter mistake when writing the Torah that whole chapter has to be re written and approved by the high priests or who ever. The Jewish writers of these text's still practice this method today but you would have to read up on that for the details. what I've found is the front of the book which you would of properly read as I have put on this conversation interesting is that the Jehovah’s that came to my house with the similar question that has been raised in this topic here is that I was motivated to read further into the relevance of how important it was for politics and art and how scientific this book is that I love the story and how the big bang theory and Michelangelo has escalated my courage to continue to love bible study more.
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          Jun 6 2012: It doesn't matter who wrote it or when it doesn't prove any of it, nor does it help validate any of it if more than one person wrote the book, the vast amounts of nonsense in it ,which we can't forget were claimed to be the words of a god written through a person. The universe isn't 6000 years old, it's just a fact, evolution happens and it did happen, it's another fact. There was no ark with two of every animal, there was no tree of good and evil. In a nutshell, we've proven it to be false, people need to keep up with modern science and give their children the full benefit of a modern scientific education where they are taught the truth so we can end this belief in pathetic myths.
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          Jun 16 2012: I agree humans wrote the bible and the koran and the book of mormon etc.
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      Jun 16 2012: Peter I agree it is not our business to interfere in this.

      Western Nations have a far better quality of life than 100 years ago or even 50 years ago

      Maybe not compared to 4 years ago.

      I suggest the protestant work ethic is a positive.

      China is now a growing powerhouse, with not much god.

      Are you suggesting a correlation between "thriving" and preaching of the gospel. Any evidence to back up this claim.

      Australia is increasingly secular and doing better than ever.

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