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Robert Winner

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THE EVOLUTION DEBATE .... WILL IT SOON BE HISTORY?

According to Paleoanthologist and avowed atheist Professor Richard Leakey of Stony Brook University, New York, evidence being gathered that is so powerful that even the skeptics cannot deny the science. Professor Leakey has been working with Turkana Basin Institute in Kenya and claims that all people originated from there and color is of no importance.

Question is: Is evolution a fact ... or .. My faith tells me God created life.

Can science and religion co-exist without conflict?

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    Debra Smith 200+

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    Jun 26 2012: I do not think so unless someone thinks there is a definative answer.
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    Obey No1kinobe 50+

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    Jun 1 2012: The conflict is not going away as long as some people literally believe religious texts that infer 6 day creations of the universe 6000 years ago or similar.

    I note that the anglican and catholic churches have officially accepted evolution.

    Many individuals believe in gods or goddesses and think evolution is sound science.

    Somehow people rationalise or compartmentalise religious or spiritual views that are culturally or intuitively based when there is no scientific or evidential base for these beliefs.

    Eternal spirits. Invisible gods. Cultural religious beliefs. Astrology. Demons, Aliens.Ghosts etc.

    Science is showing that the universe is weirder than some of the supernatural stuff. Maybe it will find some connections that support a spiritual realm, but until it does I suggest it is simply a product of our minds and nothing else.

    A scientific approach can lead to awe at the universe, points some to deism even, but seems to conflict with religious ideas of interventionist gods or that a particular religious view is the truth. Rational thought indicates all religions are probably man made. Reason knocks down silly arguments like the uncaused cause = fallacies of special pleading etc etc.

    So science does not deny invisible supernatural non interventionist immaterial entities. It just finds no evidence for them and points to a material universe that does not have humans at the centre of it, but is amazing all the same.

  • Thomas Reddy

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    May 29 2012: One of the key elements of religion is its ability to explain the otherwise in-explainable. As physicists, evolutionary biologists, and other scientists expand the horizon of human understanding, some of what was previously in-explainable, will be answered.

    Religions will either need to adapt their teachings, or claim that the gathered evidence is false. Adaptation either means disregarding the previous teaching, or couching the previous teaching in terms of metaphor or analogy.

    If you have a religion that says that god simultaneously created all the life on earth that we currently know, well that directly conflicts with evidence gathered by evolutionary biologists. That religion either needs to couch their previous claims as metaphor (as has been done by some), it needs to drop that teaching all together (as has been done by some), it needs to claim that the biologists are drawing bad conclusions from their evidence (as has been done by some), or it needs to claim that the evidence itself is false (as has been done by some).

    This is one example of a theory that has confronted a group of religions. But any religion that makes claims about the "in-explainable", will likely encounter this conflict at some point in time. Especially because the intellectually curious like to look at things that were thought of as "in-explainable" or unknowable, and attempt to find explain those things backed by evidence. These two forces will perpetually be in conflict.

    To say that these two forces are in conflict is not to say that an individual cannot simultaneously be following the pursuit of religious and scientific understanding... People throughout history have had the ability to entertain mutually antagonistic beliefs.
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      Stewart Gault 30+

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      May 29 2012: To add to the point about people who claim science has got it wrong as the results are false, avoid talking to anybody like this, never ever ever ever ever listen to kirk cameron or ray comfort or kent hovind unless you want to see what some of the worst anti evolution arguments are,
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      Robert Winner 50+

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      May 30 2012: This explaination sort of begs the war of the Catholic church and the illuminati. More precisely the Opus Dei versus Priory Sion. If science wins out what are the fall outs of organized religion.

      Is there a relaistic fall back position for those who have fought science so hard and for so long. Can the Pope, who is the vicor of God, or even the sun Gods be held in the same esteem.

      The war against the illuminati was to stop science in order to maintain the power of the church.

      The major powers in this fight do not have the ability to entertain mutually antagonistic beliefs.

      Thanks for the reply. All the best. Bob

      • Thomas Reddy

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        May 30 2012: Check out this talk by Daniel Dennet... Not a TED talk, but it very much plays up that aspect you're talking about here. The introduction is by Dawkins so you guess the sort of spin that it's going to have. I found it to be very entertaining and informative.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvJZQwy9dvE&feature=relmfu
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          Robert Winner 50+

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          May 30 2012: I had never went to the site but as you said very entertaining and informative. However, I will probally never return to the site either. Diffentally one sided.

          All the best. Bob
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          Peter Law 30+

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          Jun 2 2012: Dan is certainly entertaining, but not so sure about informative. All he really says over an hour is that people of faith are only pretending to believe. The whole speech could be turned around & applied to non-believers as well. Much prefer debates.

          :-)

  • Random Chance 30+

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    May 28 2012: I asked God once if He came up with this idea all at once, about the universe, life, everything in it, how things work, the body, physics, science, religion, snakes that talk, wolves that whistle, bacteria, DNA, disease, alcohol and drugs, good and evil, sins like mortal, venial, sex, well, just everything, 'ya know?

    His answer really surprised me.



    He said, "Oh, no, not at all. It kind'a evolved."

    Doubtless there is a moment of creation for anything, which usually begins with a thought. All this is simply consciousness. So the whole thing is simply an ever-evolving creation.
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    Heather White 10+

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    May 27 2012: I'm from the middle way in this argument. I believe in evolution as the mechanism of life change on Earth, and I accept the Big Bang as the start of our universe - but I maintain faith in a higher power who is beyond our rational intellect. Science is based on worldly matters - faith is beyond the material universe since God is beyond time and space.

    I do believe that ALL religions need to evolve as human scientific understanding and social experiences change. The plight of women, children, homosexuals, the mentally ill and physically disabled are still appalling in many countries. I consider religious fundamentalists of all religions to be backward thinkers who try to maintain their power and status due to personal insecurity and fear.

    Alain De Botton has a less confrontational perspective on being an atheist (TED Talk: Atheist 2.0), if you are one, than Richard Dawkins - whom I consider to be a very closed minded extremist.
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    Stewart Gault 30+

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    May 27 2012: I'd say the evolution debate has been over for some time, it happens and it's looking like one the biggest problems of modern medicine. Science and religion can co-exist so long as they stay out of each other's classrooms, per example intelligent design should not be taught in Biology and I doubt the Big Bang will be preached in RE. So yes evolution is a fact and your faith can still hold strong you just have to amend it slightly and say your God created the life which then started evolution this is the view of pope and most of the christian churches as far as I know. But evolution doesn't equal atheism
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    Scott Armstrong 50+

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    May 27 2012: No. But neither concept is relevant. Like Georgie boy said, if it's not reducible to the currency of daily life then it is not a symbol, it is a fraud..
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