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Should students be punished by their schools for comments made on social medial from their homes.
In the news are students being expelled for comments made from home regarding their schools, administrators, or teachers. Should this be a matter for courts action ... no action ... or is the school discipline justified.
Remember the comments are not made on school equipment or while the student is under school control / school hours / school trips / etc ...
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Showing single comment thread. View the full conversation.
Chris Kelly 20+
It needs to be determined on a case-by-case basis.
If a child is being bullied by another student via social media, it's going to affect their performance at school. This needs to be brought to the attention of and addressed by the school.
Jamie Lee Mcfadden
Chris Kelly 20+
When it's YOUR child being harassed and intimidated, you'll want immediate action and like it or not, agree with it or not, schools have a responsibility to protect our children ... particularly from other children ... while the children are in their care.
"In their care" is not strictly limited to the hours of attendance, but the enrollment itself. This is why the schools have the right and the responsibility to administer punishment for a delinquent, even if the delinquency occurs after school hours and off school property. Even if it's via social media.
If child "A" is at home harassing child "B" on some social media network, the school has every right to suspend or otherwise discipline child "A" for his/her actions, even though it takes place while at home, it affects child "B's" ability to perform at school knowing his/her harasser is not being punished for said harassment.
Similarly, if you post photos and descriptions of your wild 'spring break' activities on a social media network, your employer has every right to fire you for it. They don't have the right to fire you for your activity in and of itself, but once it is presented publicly, you're fair game, inasmuch as you represent your employer both on and off business hours.
Whomever your child is entrusted to has the responsibility to protect your child from harm. The schools must intervene because the courts are flooded enough as it is.
Harassing someone from the privacy of your own home via social media is a most cowardly act and people need to do whatever they can to prevent it. There is a zero tolerance policy in most schools, so yes, they do have the right to take action.
Jamie Lee Mcfadden
Jamie Lee Mcfadden
TED Translator
1 day ago: read --> Philippines: Students Prevented from Graduating Over Facebook Bikini Photos (http://globalvoicesonline.org/2012/04/03/philippines-students-prevented-from-graduating-over-facebook-bikini-photos/)
here in my country where more than 80% are Catholics and sectarian schools run by nuns, priests, etc are fairly common, it is difficult to draw the line. sure they can withhold the diploma, but at the end of the day the school in this case clearly showed its narrow-mindedness and oppressive nature. it has no jurisdiction with the private lives of students, and those students are better off enrolling in government schools instead.
You can find this post lower I just copied and pasted his because it is vital to why schools shouldn't have this power.
Chris Kelly 20+
Why?
Because kids are literally KILLING themselves to escape this harassment.
"If you are being bullied and your school is not protecting you, your school is not following the law."
http://www.lawlib.state.ma.us/subject/about/bullying.html
You can say 'no' all you like, but schools do have the right to address these issues.
You say "here in my country" an American (working in the Ukraine), are you referring to the Ukraine?
That aside, yes, here in America, schools do have the right to punish a social media bully.
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"... legislation passed a law allowing school officials to take action against cyber bullies even if the bullying did not originate or take place on school property."
http://www.cyberbullyalert.com/blog/2008/10/cyber-bullying-state-laws-and-policies/
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"..Schools have seen decreases in bullying through the implementation of effective
anti-bullying programs."
http://www.illinoischildwelfare.org/archives/volume3/icw3-3.pdf
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"schools do in fact have the authority to apply reasonable discipline to students who participate in cyberbullying while away from school. "
http://cyberbullying.us/blog/tag/law
As for whether schools 'should' or 'should not' ... the point is moot; schools are forced to protect children when parents do not, can not, or will not, as the court system is too busy to deal with these cyber issues in a timely manner.
Jamie Lee Mcfadden
That is why in the last four years more laws have been passed than in almost anytime before by a man that his past from his own mouth has changed a few times. He never has a straight story. The new laws are to leash people. Like in Florida the 5 year old put into hand cuffs for talking in class. Do you not believe that is too far?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/31/first-graders-handcuffed-_n_943646.html
One of the things I have learned from teaching abroad is that families seem to be in better shape and you know what is the difference is the people are behind on the cool social media stuff and actually spend time with the children. Bullies are usually bullies because of their home life. The reason the judge should be involved is what if the bully is that way because of mom or Dad maybe he/she needs help.
Just because something is law does not make it correct or Just. We are talking about the moral high ground. From my experience the school should never have this power because the board could make decisions off of personal relationships. I have been to 5 high schools and seen two that were nightmares due to certain kids families being in tight with the board.
A child's life outside school has nothing to do with the school. They should have no power if a school official thinks there is a problem not being taken care of they should notify some legal group be it police of Children and Youth.
Jamie Lee Mcfadden
We are not just talking about cyber bullying which is the way you are trying to swing this debate. We are talking being able to pass judgment on our children's social media activities such as photos or blogs. What if Johnny come on TED and talks about how they should be able to bring lunches from home and he feels like the school system is just trying to be a small mafia by forcing the kids into buying their lunches? Should the school be allowed to punish him?
You do see the bigger picture or are you just to hooked into being correct?
From person experience I went to one school one student pushed me from behind and the other slammed a locker open in my face and it knocked out my tooth. Nothing happened to them because their parents were to connected with the principle and the school. At the school any fight you were suppose to be suspended from school for 2 days and get four Saturday detentions they got nothing. I had to take several different days out to get my teeth fixed.
That is why the schools should not have nothing to do with the internet. Is is actually illegal in America for the teachers to have contact with students through the Web. I am actually abroad teaching and my students can legally contact me on any social forum for help with home work. I also do my best to keep in touch with there parents.
If parents spent more time being parents like they used to there would not be so many problems in the system. I notice in other countries parents are more like the older generation in America and spent time with there kids instead of blaming everyone else.
Chris Kelly 20+
My being correct is a by-product of knowledge, not ego. Of course I see the bigger picture and I also realize the topic is not solely about cyber bullying. However, cyber bullying has resulted in many suicides, therefore I feel it's of primary importance in regard to this topic.
Placing blame on parents is what's "lazy", Jamie. Some people simply do not have parenting skills, and it has nothing to do with laziness or any lack of time spent with a child. No one is perfect.
You're an English teacher, yet there are many spelling and grammatical errors in your postings. Does that mean you're lazy? Ineffective? Or does it simply mean you're as imperfect as anyone else?
There are many contributing factors to the problem and failure to parent properly is chief among them, but until and unless that issue is addressed on a mass scale, something has to be in place between the home system and the court system ... leaving us with the school system.
Like it or not, Big Brother just keeps getting bigger.
Jamie Lee Mcfadden
You are the secretive person. What is wrong you are afraid of people knowing whom you are? By the way I use British Grammar this is a difference and do to travel and using a cell I do not have the time to double check what has been changed. You do realize that British have different spelling right? See you run and check peoples pages to try and through rocks but you hide yourself. As far as noneffective my students have never gotten less than 7 on the IELTS. That is why I have the level of students I do. Big Brother has had that habit through out history until the people knock it down.
Chris to be honest with you I think three words were missed spelled. And I am not going to through rocks with a person who evidently has something to hide from people by the lack of info on your page. However I would encourage anyone on medication to Google it and see what you are dealing with since her/she I don't know brought it up.
We need to start taking responsibility for ourselves again and take care of the children.
Chris Kelly 20+
The point was to use your own obvious grammatical flaws as an example of the imperfections none of us are exempt from. The irony was only in your teaching English, yet exhibiting grammatical and spelling errors. You say "three words were missed spelled" (that would be MISSPELLED, btw, and while we're at it, it's "DUE" to, not "do" to) as if misspelling three words was somehow acceptable.
It would not be a point of issue if not for your own rigid stance, as you state for example:
"The school system is to educate and nothing else."
For a teacher, you exhibit stern close-mindedness with regard to this issue.
When a child is reprimanded for their social network behavior, they are learning a lesson, thus, the school is still teaching them something, are they not?
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As for your summation about my being secretive, it has nothing to do with this topic.
You said "What is wrong you are afraid of people knowing whom you are? By the way I use British Grammar ..."
Really? Interesting, as you posit yourself as an American teaching in the Ukraine, why would an American teach British grammar? It is grammatically incorrect to say "what is wrong you are afraid ..."; it ought to read "What is wrong, (comma) are you afraid ... " I'm fairly certain this transposition of words is not an 'Android correction' either.
The point of this, Jamie, is not to embarrass you, but to teach you. Learning isn't restricted to classrooms.
Each of us is flawed, so before you attack parents for being 'too lazy' to raise their children to your satisfaction, check your own glass house prior to throwing stones.
"...not going to through rocks ..." (it's "throw") Oh, and "throughout" is one word.
Jamie Lee Mcfadden
I feel the schools having the ability to punish students is a complete nightmare because of favoritism that could be held for others. Like I said earlier I have seen it first hand at one on the schools I went to. The same school there was another instance when a new student transferred and the gym teach during wrestling set him up against another student at least twenty pounds heavier for the two weeks we had wrestling in gym. I one group being bullied by another and the principle punishing the victims.
If I taught children and one was in trouble I would do what ever I could to help. Even the at the park if I see kids getting too ruff with each other I go over and speak to them. You see I am trying to keep unfairness out of the school because I see how it could get twisted.
These power grabs are just ways for people to feel like they have power. Some people even trolls that go creeping into other peoples pages and track them around the web and hide their own identity need to rip people down. School officials are no different and they build bias relationships with families they grew up with or have gotten to know through time.
A judge should be used for extreme cases of bullying but would it get that far if the parents kept an eye on their child. This would not happen at all.
It is a fact that a lot of the medications that is handed out to people makes people feel suicidal. I do take responsibility for myself and my soon to be child that is why I don't hide from people. Ideas like yours is why TSA is groping children at the airports in the States.
Chris Kelly 20+
With another attempt to deflect attention from the actual topic, you accuse me of being secretive, of not wanting others to know who I am, and of having something to hide because I have no TED profile.
It's not that I have anything to 'hide', Jamie, it's simply that I am not vested in TED. I am not here to make friends, or to earn points or win a popularity contest. I am here to contribute to interesting discussions, which have nothing to do with me, personally. If I cared to focus on myself, I'd go to Facebook, but while on TED, my identity is a non-issue. If you wish to know about me, Email me.
Another sad irony, Jamie, is that you state "We need to start taking responsibility for ourselves again and take care of the children." which is true, but it begins at home.
Throughout your text, instead of accepting responsibility, you are placing blame.
You blame your spelling errors on your Android.
You blame your grammatical errors on 'British' grammar, even though you are an American.
You blame all the children's misbehavior on their parents.
You blame suicide on medication.
When you learn to accept responsibility for your self, Jamie, your opinions will carry more weight.
As it stands, rather than have a conversation, you're intent on making it personal and turning it into a debate, which i's not what I came here for.
Peace out.
Chris Kelly 20+
That is the point of a tool, isn't it? To be useful? The fact that you're making this personal and attempting to insult me is both sad and laughable. Maybe your Android meant "useless"?
Fail.
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"your petty points have no wait"
I'm sure your Android means no 'weight'.
"do not have the time to sit done "
Or sit down?
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"I am going actually walking and typing..."
uh-huh. Good grammar there, buddy ... I'm sure it's a by-product of not being able to type and walk at the same time. Since you're a self-professed English teacher, it might behoove you to hold off on your responses until you do have time to actually read what you post prior to sending it, because for an English teacher to display so many spelling and grammatical errors is truly shameful. Show some respect for the language you profess to teach.
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" by my last name you would see my family came out of Scotland ..."
Oh, look ... more blame.
By your profile, you claim to have been born in PA and raised in America, so using your family name as yet another excuse as to why you're butchering both English and British grammar is pathetic. Man up and stop blaming.
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I understand your position Jamie, you needn't keep repeating it; some of us comprehend things the first time. You were bullied; the administration was in the pocket of the bullies parents.
No one at the school came to your rescue, so why should any school come to anyone else's rescue? That's some logic.
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"if I see kids getting too ruff with each other"
Ruff? Really? A 'ruff' is a type of collar. Did you mean "rough"? Are you going to blame this one on the Android, the fact that you're walking and typing, 'British grammar' or your Scottish heritage?
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con't
Chris Kelly 20+
You cannot keep unfairness out of school. You cannot remove it from life; life is not fair. Sometimes a bully is going to get away with such behavior because the parent has influence within the schools administration. That's no reason to prevent schools from protecting other victims whenever and however they can.
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Yes, some anti-depressants create suicidal tendencies in minors; this is not being disputed. But to blame all "bullycide" on medication is patently absurd.
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"Ideas like yours is why TSA is groping children at the airports in the States."
This makes a lot of sense, Jamie. Way to stay on point.
Now excuse me while I go pray for the poor kids under your tutelage in the Ukraine.