TED Conversations

R H
  • R H
  • Chicago, IL
  • United States

TEDCRED 20+

This conversation is closed. Start a new conversation
or join one »

Why is birth control discussed as a "women's" issue?

I watched the referenced talk and realized that there were no men included in the discussion. There were no men at all. No male opinion. No male participation. No 'fathers' discussing how they envisioned the future of their family. Then I began to realize that I couldn't remember any male spokesperson that presented a male perspective and stance on the issue of birth control - other than religious. Why are men, as a group, not vocal about birth control? Do they just not care? Is there no such thing as 'men as a group' (there is no male 'Oprah' that I know of)? Do men no longer have an opinion on the fate of their families? Are they truly the 'neanderthal brutes' like they're protrayed when it comes to sex and birth control? Why have men relinquished the decision about the size of their family to the women? With all of the talk about 'relationships as partners", where's the male version of birth control? Let's get to it...

Related Talks:
+1
Share:
progress indicator
  • thumb

    edward long 100+

    • +1
    May 7 2012: In the modern, unofficial, informal (unmarried) relationship the man sees himself as being under no obligation regarding such things as family size. An unmarried man is in a relationship with a woman for the short run, free of such encumbrances as family planning. He is not deeply concerned about her reproductive status. He may not care at all whether she becomes pregnant or not since he sees himself as free of any obligation to "her" offspring. When he commits to marriage then he wants a say in when babies are planned, and how many, etc.

  • Comment deleted

    • Brian Coltman

      • 0
      May 5 2012: A philosophy of hate and victimization close to your heart, how quaint.

  • Comment deleted

    • Comment deleted

      • Comment deleted

    • Brian Coltman

      • 0
      May 4 2012: You say that

      "No! No! No!..Guys need to be involved in the decision on "birth control" or "family planning""

      But elsewhere you say

      "I am saying that a birth control decision lies "ultimately" with the woman"

      So if our opinions and feelings don't "ultimately" mater why should I be involved in the discussion at all.

      You go on to say "She can give birth or she can have an abortion. There is no "legal" regulation I can think of that will force a woman to give birth if she doesn't want to. It is one area of a woman's condition where she holds the reigns"

      If that happens to so be the case then our legal system should reflect that, and that's all I'm asking for. I don't want to force her to have an abortion. I just want to be able to say this woman is having a child with my genetic material and I don't consent to becoming a father.

      • Comment deleted

        • Brian Coltman

          • 0
          May 5 2012: That's actually not a bad idea Marta, I think it might actually go over pretty well.

  • Mayme Trumble

    • 0
    May 3 2012: Same reason erectile disfunction is a man's issue.

  • Brian Coltman

    • 0
    May 2 2012: This post was supposed to be a response to RH down below.

    I'm not going to spend the time rehashing this argument, I will however direct you to a video on youtube that explains the concept and the justifications for it. The person discussing it is a woman but I chose the video for the clear and logical unfolding of her points.

    LPS Part 1- men have an equal responsibility? - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRdq2zqGxgY&feature=plcp

    LPS Part 2- the rights of the child - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFYxlmRRnkw&feature=relmfu

    LPS Part 3- an epidemic of single motherhood? - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3UmXu97yRQ&feature=relmfu

    LPS Part 4- but it's hard! - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50UCPLmNdnM&feature=relmfu

    I would love to continue the conversation after you familiarize yourself with the argument.

    • Comment deleted

      • Brian Coltman

        • 0
        May 4 2012: Oh yeah Marta, we created all those babies no vaginas where involved at all. Women didn't have any agency at all in any of those cases, because remember Marta women aren't people they're hapless objects that can only have things done to them and have no agency of their own. They couldn't see that he didn't have a condom on, they couldn't say "no not without a rubber", they couldn't take any form of birth control, they couldn't take the morning after pill, they couldn't choose to have an abortion, and after all of that they couldn't put the child up for adoption.

        Frankly Marta I find it surprising that your capable of loging on to a computer and pressing a series of keys in a specific order in a way that simulates language. I mean with all that you consider women incapable of.

        Her Body -> Her Choice -> Her Responsibly

        Marta I am the child of a single mother and in my case both parties my father and my mother consented to becoming parents and intentionally created a child. Things didn't work out and we received child support, that makes sense and I would never try to change that.

        That's not what I'm talking about however.

    • Comment deleted

      • Brian Coltman

        • 0
        May 4 2012: Sign a "contract with her"! are you joking, do know how quickly courts shred through prenuptial agreements.

        The Video is one in a 4 part series watch all 4 first.

        Secondly this has nothing to do with what a judge would decide least of all Judge Judy, this is an appeal to change the laws to reflect the fact that as a woman its about 100% impossible to have a child if you don't want one. Also as a woman your 0% liable if you get pregnant because you can always give it up for adoption.

        Quote "P.S. Wouldn't bet on "contract" either since the legal system would side with the kid, anyway, once it's born, so the father would end up paying alimony anyway!"

        I doubt I'd end up paying alimony considering we're not married. Child support and alimony are two very different things but the fact that you can fail to make the distinction doesn't surprise me.

        Quote "Imagine that! No way out for "unwilling fathers" in this Patriarchy we live in! How is that possible?"

        Perhaps because we don't live in a Patriarchy and haven't been for over 30years now and patriarchy theory was BS to begin with.

        How the hell can you think we are growing up in a patriarchy when 66% of children are raised by single mothers and 75+% of child educators are women as well.

        If we live in a patriarchy why is it that women make or influence over 85% of all purchasing decisions in america?

        If we live in a patriarchy why is it that men are 20 times more likely to die on the job then women?

        If we live in a patriarchy why is it that boys are more likely to drop out of high school and less likely to succeed in higher education?

        One of the defining features of a patriarchy is male ownership of their children yet in 84% of child custody cases women receive custody.

        NO we don't live in a patriarchy, not any more, not for a long time now.

  • Brian Coltman

    • 0
    Apr 30 2012: RH, Growth and Prosperity are two very different concepts.

    Also, RH If you really wan't to approach this as a men's rights issue your really coming at this with a wrong perspective.

    There is a general argument in the men's movement that states, men should have the equal opportunity to chose to be fathers and not forced to become fathers by the family law practices that allow women to make that decision for us. In essence the laws allows women to force fatherhood upon us in the case of an unplanned pregnancy. Which is unfair considering these same laws however allow women to chose at every conceivable point not to be mothers. I don't however believe that forcing women to be mothers of unwanted children is a step in the right direction. A step in the right direction would be to allow men to declare thier intent to be fathers some time shortly after conception, and if they don't consent and the woman chooses to follow through with the pregnancy then she will know she will be doing so alone without financial support.
    • thumb

      R H 20+

      • 0
      May 1 2012: Ok. Thanks Brian for responding. I was hoping for some additional male input. So let me get this straight: If a man chooses to seduce, or be seduced by, a woman and she becomes pregnant (a highly likely outcome in most cases) then she is 'forcing' him to be a father? And that is unfair? Then, if she doesn't 'consent' to discontinuing the pregnancy he 'washes his hands' and walks away with no further obligation? Tell me I'm missing something...

      • Brian Coltman

        • 0
        May 4 2012: Sorry, RH, my other post up above was supposed to be a response to this one.

    • Comment deleted

      • Brian Coltman

        • 0
        May 4 2012: Quote "Do they discuss the subject of pregnancy before having sex? No!..."

        Do women do frequently do this? Last time I met a girl she didn't stop me while we where making out and say "before we can continue any further we're going to have to have a serious discussion about pregnancy". NO!!!! What the hell Marta, are men the always the only one to blame when an unwanted pregnancy that occurs? Are there not two participants in any sexual act. Your postdated woman cant be blamed for anything brand of feminism is perhaps the single most sexist thing in society today. You really don't seem to think that women have any control over their own bodies, while continuously arguing that women are the only ones who should have any control over their own bodies via Roe V Wade. Pick a coherent and logical position. You can't say its my choice whether or not I want to have an abortion but giving birth is something entirely not within my control.

        Her Body -> Her Choice -> Her Responsibility

    • Comment deleted

      • Brian Coltman

        • 0
        May 4 2012: No, I don't have many birth control options, in fact I have one non-permanent option its called a condom.
        Not only do I not like condoms, but my girlfriend doesn't enjoy them either; as she puts it "If I wanted to play with a rubber stick I'd use a dildo". So while I'm under the impression that she uses birth control I have no meaningful consent to paternity/non-paternity, I'm taking a gamble. I have absolutely no way of knowing if she is using birth control or using it correctly and if she makes any mistakes I'm liable. If she decides to follow through with the unwanted pregnancy even though she knows that while I do want to be a father I'm not currently ready for it and probably won't be for another 10 years. What sort of bullshit laws make both parties culpable for one parties decisions.

        I currently consent to having sex, I do not currently consent to becoming a father.

        The laws will force me to become a father but won't force her to become a mother.

  • Comment deleted

    • thumb

      R H 20+

      • 0
      Apr 28 2012: Thanks marta. Sorry if upset you, but here's no 'word games' here. I'm trying to understand what you're words mean, that's all. When I asked 'for whom?', Melinda made the point that societies 'flourish' when women have access to birth control. I question that. Who really flourishes? The implication, in her statement, was that societies flourish 'because' of birth control. But that's a whole other conversation. I'm glad to hear you're 'eager' to hear from men on this issue. Me too. Only one man has replied to this question so far, the other man replied to you. It would seem that the 'men of TED' do not find this subject interesting or pertinent enough to respond. So be it. I would take the leap that this reponse is indicative of men's participation to this issue at large. I would love to hear men discuss birth control, from a participant's point of view. Where do you think that would lead?

      • Brian Coltman

        • 0
        May 4 2012: "Melinda made the point that societies 'flourish' when women have access to birth control. I question that. Who really flourishes?"

        The children, the 2.2 children that get all the love an resources that would have otherwise had to been poured into 5+ children.

        Surplus creates prosperity and growth but prosperity and growth are not the same. Prosperity is an easier more comfortable state of living with greater wealth, growth is increased population.

  • Comment deleted

    • thumb

      Zaz Tao 30+

      • 0
      May 4 2012: 'I see documentaries of men who were trapped by women who got pregnant where there was clear agreement "not to have kids".'

      Could you think of the title of any of these documentaries? I would appreciate it immensely.

      As for my take on the subject, ...why it is a "woman's issue," I see this as part of a larger pathology in social discourse stemming from the adversarial model that is in our judicial and political systems. For instance, we have in courts, "defense" on one side and "prosecution" on the other, judge and jury to arbitrate. Theory being that in the "fight" between the two sides, "the truth" is expected to emerge.

      Then we have allowed our entire political system to narrow all issues down to two parties. We have others, but they are not taken very seriously by the majority and of course the two major parties exert effort to shut out the competition of those other parties.

      And we go on, trying to force all manner of issues into dichotomies which as one can see here makes the discourse sort of insane and mostly ineffective.

      On one hand, we want equal rights and responsibilities for the two parties of a reproductive event, and on the other we have the inescapable biological fact that the burden or involvement of each party is extremely lopsided. Throw in the fact that by far, the all-time favorite way of entering into the initial act of reproduction is by entirely unpremeditated whim, and it's no wonder this whole endeavor is problematic.

      It isn't just a seconds long male orgasm versus the female burden of 9 month gestation, hours of labor and excruciating delivery at play here, there's also the two decades of nurturing extraordinaire that follows.

      In my view, everything is connected, therefore the concept of a gender owning an issue is silly. Think of this: within a small family, birth control is a bigger issue for existing children than it is for the parents! Why not "birth control is a two-year old's issue, yes/no?"

  • Comment deleted

    • thumb

      R H 20+

      • 0
      Apr 27 2012: Ok. Thanks for clearing that up for me. So 'ultimately' whatever the conversation regarding birth control between a man and a woman, it is the woman's decision and she has control. So I guess I would infer from this answer that there's no 'reason' for a man to be involved in the discussion of birth control because he does not 'ultimately' control the outcome. It seems similar to a man who says 'you do not control what I do for a living' (I quit my job today, I don't feel like working anymore), or you do not 'tell me what to do' (I'll go out with my friends whenever I want - and yes there are women there). A woman has no 'ultimate control' over his decision. I know I'm getting a bit off track here, but where does this lead?
  • thumb

    Obey No1kinobe 50+

    • 0
    Apr 25 2012: I would have thought at some stage men are part of the problem and the solution.

    But given women have the babies, fair enough they have some time to sort stuff up themselves during the process.

    If it was 100% women only the whole time, then something is wrong perhaps.

    Funny to see the recent debates on contraception in compulsory healthcare. It was all men objecting. Now that's unbalanced.
  • thumb

    Ken brown 30+

    • 0
    Apr 25 2012: Men will care when they are made more aware that there is alternative male contraception in trials now,i've always thought it could be avoided if we men owned up to our side of the issues and took a more active roll in insuring that our women are not alone in prevention,the condom isn't a secure method but the snip at an early age isn't viable either.There is this though.

    I don't know whether there is long term effects as it will take time.

    http://digitaljournal.com/article/307482
    • thumb

      R H 20+

      • 0
      Apr 25 2012: Thanks for responding, Ken. When I mentioned 'where's the male version of birth control', I wasn't refering to the actual methods of performing birth control. I was refering to men participating in the 'discussion and consideration' of birth control. I want to hear what is the opinion of men regarding birth control. What is their version of the birth control discussion and debate, and why are they not participating in these discussions? Not who is doing the actual controlling of the birth/non-birth. To me that's not the issue, merely the mechanics. Thanks again.
      • thumb

        Ken brown 30+

        • 0
        Apr 26 2012: Of course.

        But it's there for whoever is interested and if it pans out then we can take our boys in early so they don't show up 9 months later with a bundle of joy at 17.
        • thumb

          R H 20+

          • 0
          Apr 27 2012: It's such a big issue, isn't it? That's why I asked why men are not involved (read: included) in the conversation.

    • Comment deleted

      • thumb

        R H 20+

        • 0
        Apr 27 2012: Thanks marta. More prosperous for whom? Those with no children - or with sufficient means. Your last question: "Where are the men..." is what I'm looking for. Where are they in this issue?!
      • thumb

        Ken brown 30+

        • 0
        Apr 28 2012: Hi Marta

        Just responding to your post to my comment.

        Your comments are valid for couples and maybe the professional singles,I was referring to the teenage set that end up having babies,i know of three girls that fell pregnant at 13,i'm not saying that this is the majority worldwide but, kids are having kids regardless of what people like to believe,if i had boys and a safe alternative contraception was available, then when they turn sixteen, i would take them in for the procedure ensuring they have a chance.

        Oh, i'm in my forties,i'm flattered though.Lol

  • Comment deleted

    • thumb

      R H 20+

      • 0
      Apr 25 2012: Thanks again, marta. Ok. Are you saying that men do not care about the results of copulation because they don't want to deal with the results? So therefore they, in essence, 'force' (relinquish to) the women to decide by default of her having to carry the child? A form of passive/aggressive neglect? I would say there is much evidence to support that opinion.

      • Comment deleted

        • thumb

          R H 20+

          • 0
          Apr 25 2012: Ok. So what you're saying now is that men do not have the 'right' to have an opinion or participate in the discussion of birth control. Men are merely 'passive' participants in the 'gene pool'. That only women decide who gets born and who doesn't (especially if abortion is used as 'birth control'. Note: Mrs. Gates makes the distinction that abortion is not birth control, which I would agree with). As a man and a father, I would vehemently disagree with your approach. But thank you for responding.

  • Erin Tuncan

    • 0
    Apr 24 2012: Marta, you are stating an extreme opinion when the question asked is looking for a moderate reason. In my opinion, a marriage and the amount of kids had should be a mutual decision, talked about at length and decided upon together. Women are quick to point out they are the ones pregnant and having kids, but Im betting it would have been a lot worse if their husbands werent there to support them. Also birth control is not just female, but mainly. Condoms anyone? Anyways maybe they should come up with more ways for males to prevent pregnancy. The point is most solutions come about in compromise, not left and right, right and wrong. Also this is not a perfect country. Many women abuse the benefit of the doubt given to them about rape. Not that we should swing the completely other way, more along the lines of compromise in all things. Or atleast in most. Also how many women can get pregnant without a males sperm? None. It can not be said that an apple is better than an orange or vise versa, they are both fruits yes, but so different in so many ways they can not be compared in any way but the most basic. Lastly, women demand equal treament, but want to keep all the benefits given to women in the past. If women want to be treated equal they should not expect special treatment.

  • Comment deleted

    • thumb

      R H 20+

      • 0
      Apr 25 2012: Thank you, marta, for responding. From what I gather from you comment, you're stating that because the gestation happens in the woman this is why it's a women's issue, both from a medical standpoint and a practical one. These facts, of course, are indisputable. I don't think I understand your 'legal union/rape' comment properly. My question was why are men not included, nor partcipating, in the discussion of birth control, and that it has defalted to a 'women's' issue when it clearly is a central life issue that includes both women and men and their mutual offspring and relations. Why are men not participating in the birth control discussion? Where are the 'fathers' on this issue?

      • Comment deleted

        • thumb

          R H 20+

          • 0
          Apr 27 2012: Ah. Ok. I see your point now. Then my comment of 'neanderthal brutes' would apply here. The other option would be divorce. I think any 'religious' interpretation would see a disagreement over whether to have children as a valid reason. Thanks again.
Showing all 43 comments