TED Conversations

jenese james belzer

grandmother,

This conversation is closed.

Could the problems that face the world today be traced to todays Religions - my answer is YES undoubtedly

Research now shows that beyond a doubt once God was a woman - that the ME and beyond was once a peaceful place where women and men lived in a divine relationship with each other and the natural world

Today so much of who we are as human beings has been lost - today we live in a world that is NOT heaven on earth despite thousands of years of religious rhetoric and dogma proclaiming love and peace

what is uncovered in our ancient past is that once upon a time a divine partnerships of woman and men = masculine/feminine were in a divine balance with all life - and then something changed to alter that and we have now ended up with a world on the brink of disaster because of it

neither men nor women fully comprehend who they are because the biggest lie ever perpetrated on humanity has been to tell them they are sinful and that women are cursed to suffer and bleed in pain - and that all who are born through the body of woman is sinful - an old belief yes ...but one very much alive - albeit hidden in the treatment of women and men today

i have no intention here of creating further division between the dysfunction that exists between the culturally entrained male and female - rather i seek to bring balance and divine complementary partnership BACK into the discourse

i seek conversation on this as i am proposing an audio visual presentation in 3 parts - the first will be - when god was a woman ....to expand our limiting view of ourselves ....

Share:

Showing single comment thread. View the full conversation.

  • thumb
    Apr 13 2012: Jenese,
    I side with Edward Long, would getting rid of religion make us better people? The answer is yes and no depending on what kind of people we are to begin with. I have always been a religious minded person, but I have not let religion dictate what I believe, nor can I say that life is not heaven because of what I believe. I have made decisions based on spiritual convictions, and I can say that my life is very peaceful and well managed because of it.

    What does religion have to do with drug cartels? With human trafficking? With political corruption? With sexual dysfunction? With street gangs? With climate change? With earthquakes and volcanic eruptions? With drought? With hurricanes and tornadoes? With forrest fires? These are all human and environmental issues. Religion has tried to deal with the human issues, and help us cope with the environmental ones, albeit not very well at times. Can science do any better? Well it obviously has, but not in spite of religion, but as a further development of our understanding. Religion still maintains cohesion in many communities, and teaches morality and ethics, something that science is willing to put aside for the almighty dollar.

    I will side with you on what many people believe concerning what they have been taught with regards to religion. Religion today is not what it used to be. Our sinful nature is the carnal nature, not the human nature as a whole. Religion was developed to help us rise to the spiritual nature, where the carnal nature would be brought into submission. Today, we only hear of the sinful nature, making life on earth something to be dreaded. That needs to change.
    We also have a society largely controlled by men. In the scriptures, women have been belittled, and often subverted by religious fanatics who see them as property rather than equals. In the new testament, women were to be loved, but many have perverted this to sex slaves.

    I say reform religion, don't blame it.
    • thumb
      Apr 17 2012: Hi Roy

      from my perspective todays religion will have to change - it has been built or founded upon much older and ancient and more holistic understandings that came before it but has dogmatized it and censored it to fit a patriarchal way of living in the world that did not really honor woman in a sacared or powerful way - instead it defined her as lessor and made her the property of men in marriage and in all things she was demeaned

      this is horrific coming from a time when she was highly valued and deemed sacred because of her abilities that few no longer remember enough to exhibit

      the fact that women lost her own wisdom her own connection to her divinity and sacred connection and her own wisdom filled voice was silenced is partly why the world is the way it is ..why men are out of control in that sense of sex trading rape and other abuses - without going right into it or writing a book about it you would have to have done some research about the ancient times and the esteem that women were held in to understand how far the fall has been and how it has helped create this world and all its crap against nature

      nature is also defined as feminine you know ....

      the male defined god system of he his and him does not include women - a brother hood of man negates a sister hood there is no mother to the father and no sister to the brother in that story - a patriarchal definition of what life is and how to live it stands ....giving rise to an incredible imbalance and a chaos

      it has separated people from their own divinity creating fear not love spreading division not unity

      we have NO sinful nature - we are divine in nature thats the whole point - how damming to be told you are sinful that new borns are born sinful ....the great cosmic mother revealed the unity out of which all life was born - she did not judge the worthiness of her children all were equal .....

      religion is based on a way older divinity that is love at its core and women are the key to it
      • thumb
        Apr 17 2012: Jenese,

        I've heard the evolution of religion described in terms of magic in the earliest times of our modern consciousness.
        Followed by the mythic age - Genesis stuff.
        Science has explained away much of the mythical beliefs
        Now we rely more and more on personal experience which is perhaps a thread through the history of religion.

        Sounds a bit like you want to focus on the magic part - less dogma, more personal expirence

        Although the main religions today are deeply embedded.

        the Abrahamic religions are particularly male dominated.
        I have found the practice of Buddhism is predominately Buddhist countries also surprisingly sexist.
        Lamas and patriarchs are always men. Buddhist nuns have a lower place then monks.
        My more limited view of say a Hindu country like India is that women also struggle.

        I'm not sure if this is non relgious cultural aspects or religious driven or a viscous circle.
        The religion reflected the culture it was born in and now reinforces the values into perpetuity.

        Overall, the place of women has benefited from non religious enlightenment values of secularism and equality.

        I guess there may have been religious systems that were more women focused. Perhaps as our population grew, competition, conflict and tribalism pushed us to warlike masculine beliefs.

        Are you talking about pre writing religions with eve figurines 10,000-30,000 years ago?

        Or are you referring to the the ancient greeks or eqyptians with their personified male and female pantheons with Isis etc.

        Or a Gaia concept?

        One thing I would add is while there may be social consequences of more feminine beliefs, while some older religious beliefs may have had a more feminine aspect, it does not make them any more or less likely to be cultural and psychological delusions than the current dominant crop of religions.
        • thumb
          Apr 17 2012: Ahh master ob 1

          heres the thing - history shows us that the whole of Arabia was once governed by the goddess Al-Lat - that queens ruled the land in different way than kings rule - and the black stone in mecca still guarded by the 'sons of the old woman' beni shaybah - Mohammed village was also the guardians of ancient goddess wisdom - and he got kicked out for trying to change it but he did an over time allah came to power and look how women are treated now ....

          The same thing happened every where in a process that rupert sheldrake called morphic resonance - look it up in google - which is why Buddhism also has the male ranking over the women/nuns - it was pointed out to the dali lama that their is a core belief in Buddhism that no one can attain enlightenment in a women's body !!! that is how strong the fear and the hatred of the feminine has been indoctrinated into the world and maintained by a religious order that continues to preach love but teaches division and separation and fear

          Science is also based on a deeply rooted male perspective of newtonian physics which does not see the living world so much as a living thing but as a thing to be exploited - Descartes saw man as a machine and philosophy has the watch maker as its king pin

          yes i am talking about pre neolithic times

          i am more convinced than ever that what we think we know of those times has been heavily tainted and corrupted by an androcentric male mind that still believes the human race some how evolved from monkey's .... i believe that so much has been forgotten about our ancient past that this humanity has to wake up and remember because it will one day be our future and so all ends are leading us towards that moment and that religions will collapse along with all the other unsustainable things that keep humanity enslaved and fearful

          remember though that patriarchy is a system of beliefs still very much entrenched - we are all soaking in it in a sense and it does none of us any good at all
      • thumb
        Apr 17 2012: Chris, I guess most myths associated with the creation of universe and life etc:
        Dream time myths, creation in 6 days, adam and eve, pandora, Zeus living on mount Olympus, Hindu cycles, 6000 year old earths, Rangi catching the sun in a net, humans living side by side with dinosaurs. etc

        When you throw in reason - conflicting claims - at most one religious interpretation may be literally correct. IF all the gods imagined are real, there must be a lot of redundant ones with no followers.

        Deist beliefs avoid a lot of this baggage. Many modern believers don't take these stories literally, but selectively believe in other miracles. Some people still take these stories literally.

        I'm sure all this can be repackaged in other ways.

        Discussing religion and gods is a slippery - even Christians have individual and sectarian views. God is everything from the energy from living things in the universe, a group intellence, to a jewish carpenter
      • thumb
        Apr 17 2012: Jenese,
        I agree that religions need to change. But it is a two sided coin. Many women like the status of men in control, so long as they are not mistreated. Many currently exercise control by being able to persuade men by their feminine influence. For these, it is not male domination but male atrocities that they desire to see changed.

        During the Egyptian empire, Isis was the dominant figure. But pharaoh was generally a male because he commanded the warrior force. I believe that it was this motive that religion became male dominating. It was during this time that conquest wars dominated history. Women were to be guarded and protected. However, the transition to male domination of women as slaves or property slowly took root, and it has grown to extremes in the Muslim communities.

        As far as humanity as being or not being sinful, tell me the above isn't sinful and I will argue with you. This was the carnal nature that Eastern philosophy was seeking to combat. It was the Catholic church that introduced the concept of original sin, and it has corrupted what Eastern philosophy was all about by changing our concept of sin.

        I Believe that much of our problems come down to survival of the fittest where we have lost touch with nature. Science is restoring that connection with nature in a new way. Yet those who understand it and live their lives as responsible citizens are only a percentage of the population.

        How do we reach the rest? How do we change a mindset that is taught from birth? Our military is dealing with the hard-core militants, but there are many who hold to fundamentalist beliefs. Is it because they can't understand anything else? Or is it because they have had experiences which they can't ignore?

        I wrote a book called "The Merging of Two Worlds" because I understand science but also had experiences that I couldn't ignore. I believe that I am only one of many who are finding this to be true.
    • thumb
      Apr 17 2012: I agree Roy. The truth would set us free.

      Religion had a place in human development.
      Like feudalism
      Like Monarchies

      Lets move on.
      • thumb
        Apr 17 2012: Obey,
        Let' move on to what? Survival of the fittest? I am finding many who are taking up that banner. Science is a wonderful tool. But in the absence of morals and ethics, it can become a monstrous tool. There are many modern day movies that try to present the potential horror of the misuse of science.

        Soap operas are becoming a standard way of life for many people. I find it very disturbing because of what people are willing to do to further themselves or gratify their lusts. It is all becoming part of the modern day mindset.

        I don't feel that modern day religion can keep us from that path. It is too caught up in dogmas where the importance of those making claims in past time has become the basis of beliefs. Such was the case with Aristotle's crystal spheres, which survived for nearly two millennium. Such was the case with Saint Augustine's claim that a baby that dies without being baptized would go to hell. There are many current day beliefs which have no more truth than crystal spheres. Yet a world without ethics and morals is not much of a world either. So how do we get rid of the bad without getting rid of the good? There is a part of religion that we can't afford to lose, and that is the part that says we owe our allegiance to that which created us.
        • thumb
          Apr 17 2012: Good question.

          I suggest we have made great strides in the last few hundred years, even the last 60 in the west.
          Statements of enlightenment values - equality, freedom etc
          End of slavery
          Universal suffrage
          Civil rights
          Womens rights
          The UN declaration of human rights
          etc

          We don't become moral vacuums if we dump religion.
          We can encourage and build on the values above.
          We just have the freedom to dump the negative bronze age and medieval values enshrined in some religions. I think this will help us improve the human condition.
          Humans have physically evolved to be capable of ethical assessment and our science and philosophy and social and political and legal development supports us to be better than survival of the fittest.

          I just don't get how people think religion is needed or we will revert to survival of the fittest.. The advances of the last 5000 years won't suddenly dissapear. The US bill or rights will still be there etc.

          I note most religious people pick and choose the morality bits. Even the ten commandments - no graven images, no god but me, not working on the sabbath - we largely ignore these.

          The Jews are not stoning adulterers despite what their book says. Some muslims do.

          PErhaps if we shift owing our alligence to humanity not different gods we would be all be better off.
      • thumb
        Apr 18 2012: Obey,
        I agree with most of what you said. However, I think that there is a truth underlying what religion has been teaching that needs to be brought out. I see quantum mechanics as the creator. If that is what God refers to, then there IS only one God, and we would be putting ourselves at risk to abandon it for something else. That is not what religion teaches these days but it should be.

        Despite the fact that lawmakers took prayer out of schools, our political system is firmly rooted in religious symbols. Many of our politicians are Masons which is all built on symbolism, so they seem to know that science alone is insufficient to get us through difficult times. I agree that many bronze age and medieval values are still rooted in mainstream religions, and they need to go. But don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Find the baby.
        • thumb
          Apr 18 2012: I agree Roy, many find consolation in religion whether it is true or a delusion.
          Perhaps there are other benefits. social connection etc.

          As a non believer I guess I manage through the ups and downs of life just as well as any believer. I suspect I may find life on earth even more precious than those that believe in an afterlife or reincarnation.

          So I disagree we need it. Different question if we want it or whether the benefits outweigh the negatives. I think we are a fairly durable and adaptable species - we can deal with a reality without a personal creator or interventionist god.

          I don't see religion going anywhere fast, just a gradual decline. Plenty of time to adjust.

          Perhaps we don't need religion to address the key concerns of the baby. But we'd probably disagree with what is essential etc. We might agree on dropping the robes and trappings. I'd probably be willing to sacrifice many other things, the get togethers etc. But we'd keep ceremonies for marriage and death etc.
      • thumb
        Apr 18 2012: Obey,
        If people find consolation in a religion that is delusional, I would have a problem with that too. I hope to dispel the delusions to get to the bottom of it.

        I can accept your not needing religion. There are some who understand it and realize that it connects us to something far greater than ourselves. They would take offense if you tried to undermine what they have come to know. If your only intent is to reveal the truth, then you have my blessing. But make sure it is the truth. And I will equally agree that religion should do the same.

        I believe in a personal God only because I made it personal. I took the time to connect and feel personally involved with what has become a guiding force in my life. I can say that it has not only kept me out of trouble, but has earned me a great deal of respect.

        Organized religion is declining because of what it currently teaches. I am seeing a growing trend toward spirituality. People are coming to know that there is far more to life than just what you can see or explain through science alone.

        Getting together was intended not just for religious purposes but to share concerns and needs. This is still the case in some churches whereas it is no longer the case in others. When you find yourself in need in time of loss of a loved one, victim of crime, loss of a job, or sliding down that slippery slope to addiction, who do you turn to? A parish is often a place to connect. Sure, there are social services but who can afford them? Often not the people who need them. Having a place to go to deal with your troubles is a very real need for some people. If you knew the number of people who have been rescued from addiction, prostitution, gang life, etc., you might have a different view of it. I might agree that religion isn't the only means, but it is one of the means that we might not want to part with. Let's fix the problems and move on.
        • thumb
          Apr 20 2012: I'm for the truth.

          And freedom of religion (within limits - no human sacrifices and genital mutilation of children for starters) and freedom from religion.

          I'm also for freedom of speech and happy to debate, discussion, refine, learn, test my own and others assumptions.

          So one of the contradictions I get from your last statement is that consolation from imaginary gods is a delusion. I agree. Is the net result good or bad or neutral - I don't know although I'm learning to we'd be better off without it. But I won't go into the details here.
          Then you mention the personal guiding force you believe in. Might this also be a delusion?

          I think I get your point that something from self exploration and experience might be closer to the truth than a cookie cutter traditional religion, but experience is all up to subjective interpretation.

          Still if it helps you. If it makes sense to you that is much better than when I was a Christian thinking a lot of this Christian seems "off".

          So I'm all for personal exploration especially if not restricted by dogma.

          When people mention touching the divine and other transcendent experiences or more intellectual eureka moments stumbling across some connections and ideas that make profound sense - I get that these are real experiences. Personally I've had some profound experiences but never the spoken word of god etc. I'm just not sure they are proof of any type of god or intelligence etc.
      • thumb
        Apr 20 2012: Obey,
        Delusional gods ARE bad. Why do you think that the early church had such strong feelings against idol worship; because they were delusional gods and they wanted nothing to do with them. So when a church brings delusional gods into their dogmas, they are going against their own heritage.

        Delusion is an open door to deception, the very idea that Satan embodies. When the mind tries to compute with false data, it leads to no good. God is accepted as the highest authority. Many make command decisions based on what they perceive as God. So when people try to compute with false notions of God, they are liable to do some very disturbing things. This is where the church is in greatest danger.

        My personal experience about God calmed my fears at the time, but I didn't take it as truth until science taught me the same thing. It was confirmation of my earlier experience that I began to regard it as truth. Until that time, I held it in the back of my mind as something that I really didn't understand, but worth pondering as to what it meant. That was the main point of Eastern philosophy; you had to search it out until you understood it. This was the pathway that led to Christ; the seventh energy chakra of spiritual development. When the church went against Galileo, it began the road to separation from the truth. That is why atheists are so opposed to the church today. I say the church needs reform, but I am opposed to trying to get rid of it because of what I gained from it despite its flaws.
      • thumb
        Apr 24 2012: HI

        lets move on - now that is an interesting statement - to what ? while i agree with you entirely lets look for a direction ?

        this humanity has no idea what god is for a start ....so moving on ....what is this thing called god ? for the most part is has been taught to every one that god is a male - a HE and that he is the creator - and that HE had a son and that there is a brother hood of man that talkes about love but inspired fear and hatred that talks about compassion but but acts or doesn't act or intercede for the majority of humans that give him voice ?

        so lets move on - of course we don't need this kind of dogmatic religious belief where the value of women has been so demonized that this humanity tries to masculine her and allows only a few of her attributes to define her - yes lets definitely move on from this idea - its caused nothing but hatred and imbalance

        so science ....hmm ....can science tell us what god is ?

        and why is there a need for something like a god ....?

        and what about who you are as a person or who i am as a individual - and what about who the human race is and why ?

        why do people exist, is the a reason other than because so many like sex and men still ejaculate within women and create so many unwanted un planned for children - is there a reason for our existence a purpose ?

        why do we die ? why are we born - do we choose it ?

        what is a soul and why would one want to be born into this human form ?

        are these not the questions that religion arose to answer ?

        man keeps looking at the big bang in scientific terms - it could simply refer to the collision of one neuron into another when life emerged or the idea of creating life or the feeling of having an idea about creating life

        is existence meaningless ?

        can science make it so

        are men still defining life and the way it works from their unconsciousness understanding of themselves ?

        yes lets move on - but to where ?

        sorry but i just had to jump into the conversation

Showing single comment thread. View the full conversation.