- Ghassan Mustafa
- Amman
- Jordan
This conversation is closed. Start a new conversation
or join one »
Is Islam tolerent religion or not?and do you think that Muslims are isolated?
Many people say that Islam makes Muslim tend to be isolated and does not accepte the other. "God made us tribes and nations to get to know each other." This is a quote from Quran that displays that Islam is tolerent and it is not an isolated religion. Islam acceptes and respects the other and gives the other the freedom to practice their religions. Islam does not attack other religion and people and does not force them to converte into Islam. Many stereotypes of Islam tend to deform the image of Islam. One of the ways to know more about Islam is reading books by moderate Muslim or going to Muslim countries. Islam is the religion of peace and tolerence and this is applied to all religions over the world. Islam prohibits extremism. Therefore, Muslims do not consider extreme people as Muslims and representative of Islam. Muslims should communictate with people from all over the world. If non-Muslims need help, Muslims will definitely help them because we are all humans.
Closing Statement from Ghassan Mustafa
Ted..this debate is supposed to end within 9 days from now!!
Obey No1kinobe 50+
Is Christianity more benign now because non relgious humanistic enlightenment values have filtered into many western societies, despite or against Christianity itself? Or is there something about the Christian religion that was amenable to the enlightenment.
Is there something about Islam that suppports some of the backwardness in majority Islamic societies. Why did the middle east miss out on the enlightenment.
I stilll think much of the issues in Islamic countries are driven by politics, post colonial dictators, oil. The West has a lot to answer for. But so do the people themselves. Relgion may be a tool. But perhaps there is something pecularier about Islam that holds back progress more than other religions. But suggest it is all a big mixture of lots of factors.
There is something about most religion that is anti science and social progress. Sure there are great scientistics who are relgious but at some point they need to seperate their faith from scientific discoveries or adapt their faith.
edward long 100+
1) Is Islam a tolerant religion? Some will answer yes and some will say no.
2) Are Muslims isolated? Some say yes and some say no.
Both are entitled to their opinion.
Obviously Mr. Mustafa has brought-up a sensitive issue to us all. I appreciate the specificity of his questions and believe that surgical precision is necessary to have a peaceful dialog. Otherwise tempers are going to flare and only wasteful heat will be generated with no illuminating light.
Matthieu Miossec 100+
daniel hehir 20+
Ghassan Mustafa
I have never heard on news or in any country that this is applied till now
Ken brown 30+
Does this happen? one could put a twist into any video work.
Obey No1kinobe 50+
It just depends on which bits you choose to follow and which to ignore.
Personally, I prefer to ignore the whole lot as bronze age or medieval superstition.
The more enlightenment values like equality, the more you need to ignore.
Mary M. 50+
I have seen you use this statement many times throughout many conversations.
Is there an example of the actual law being put to use?
Do you understand the reason behind the law?
Have you stopped to consider the significance of such statutes?
I know, I am off topic.......if you are able to reply through an email, I will appreciate it......
Obey No1kinobe 50+
I also recall God exterminated everyone except Noah and a few others.
Sodom, Gomorrah destroyed by god.
God ordering Abraham to kill his Son.
Didn't Moses order the levites to kill the people who built a statue of the golden calf.
God and his angels helped his chosen people defeat their enemies.
Guidelines for Jewish slave owners.
Even if you are a Christian, this is talking about god the Father.
Thankfully this not happening now that much in the Western world.
But this is the immutable story of god. The same source as Islam.
This is at times a god that takes sides, kills people, that eternally torments people in hell, that needed a blood sacrifice.
You just cant take the bits you like and ignore the rest. .
My point is Christianity has some potential for violence and evil, just as Islam does. More so than Buddhism or Jainism. This has something to does with the shared source material.
The West had the enlightenment and the development of increasingly secular governments - not universally - I guess the church of England is the state religion, but for a few hundred years the Catholics and others have been able to worship freely. Slavery abolished a few hundred years ago in the west. Nearly all men got the vote, not just the wealthy or land owners about a 120 years ago and women a few decades later. Although Australian aborigines had to wait until the 1960's coinciding with the US civil rights movement. Homosexuality was only decriminalized a few decades ago. for different races.
Western Science officially dropped supernatural explanations a few hundred years ago.
I guess after thousands of years of so called human civilization the Western world is only a few decades, maybe a century or two ahead of the Islamic world in terms of human rights.
But I still think they are bogged down and their religion is part of it.
Secular muslims do much better.
Orlando Hawkins 20+
Based off what I know about the tenants of Islam and if we just focus on these tenants I would have to say that no, it is not meant to be tolerant to those on the outside. As a matter of fact it does not seem to be tolerate of certain sects within its own religion.
With that being said, I understand there are great, tolerant and friendly Muslims individuals. As a matter of fact I know a few. Knowing this I would have to say Islam practiced in the west is different than Islam practiced in the middle east.
According to the Qu'ran I can see how such violent and intolerant behavior can be justified but I tend to think that in spite of this people can be good in spite of what they may believe but I also believe that beliefs have consequences.
I hope this does not come off as saying all Muslims are bad. What I"m attacking is the religion and not the individuals and stating that certain beliefs in propositions can lead to bad behavior, which I think many people in the west tend to ignore.
daniel hehir 20+
Just open the link. Amnesty usa
Is it a cultural thing? Why is honor more important than your own daughters life..? Does it have anything at all to do with Islam and the Koran?
http://blog.amnestyusa.org/women/the-horror-of-honor-killings-even-in-us/
Ghassan Mustafa
It has nothing to do with Islam at all. The one who did it is a Muslim, but that does not necessarily mean that he follows the teachings of Islam. As a Muslim, I am against the so called "Honor Killings" for it is against humanity and against the law of Islam. One thing that the west does not understand about Islam that they judge Islam without knowing anything about Islam; they consider anything done wrong done by Muslims is part of Islam, so this totally wrong. For example, the one who shot people in Norway months ago was a Christina,but as Muslims we did not consider him as a representative of Christianity. The same is applied to Al-qaida, we as Muslim are against this terrorist organization because Islam and of course the other religions are against bloodshed and killing.
This man should be punished.
Thank you very much for raising this issue.
Ken brown 30+
MacDonald Mark
As society progresses, it becomes harder and harder to reconcile the old and archaic bits of religion with the reality of modern day society. This inevitably results in intolerance and/or isolation. Islam isn't unique in this problem the same issues exist with Christianity and Judaism.
Secularism gives us the best chance at people of all religions co-existing and happy under the same proverbial roof. It doesn't necessarily reconcile the archaic bits of religions though eventually the religions have to own those and move past them (i.e- Certain delusional religious folks in America trying to get fiction taught as science in public schools as "creationism").
Ghassan Mustafa
In every religion there are a group of people or individuals who deviate from their religion, they either go to extremes or be far away from the values and principles of their religion. When you want to think of Islam think of it as a religion that is represented by the ones who apply it in a right way. You can not be judgmental without knowing about Islam and its laws. Going to Muslim countries and reading about Islam and getting to know moderate Muslims who know about Islam well will make you understand Islam more. Do not judge Islam by leaders such as Saddam and organizations such as Al-Qauda. Theses leaders and organizations do not represent Islam at all, because they call for bloodshed and wars. In Islam, extremism is prohibited because it deforms the image of Islam and leads to many issues such as bloodshed and hatred towards other religions. For example, the KKK the organization that opposed the equal rights of African Americans are not representative of Christianity and the same applied to the Islamic organizations that do not apply Islam.
"God made us tribes and nations to get to know each other." This is a quote from Quran that displays that Islam is tolerent and it is not an isolated religion. Many Muslim travel to the west as a sort of cultural exchange and to .Many Muslims like traveling to see the world and exchange knowledge and experiences. My father and my uncles and my friends traveled to the west.
Terry Harman
I think the very best way to get to know more about Muslims, if not Islam, is to go to a Muslim country. I visted Turkey in 2003 not long after the start of hostilities in Iraq. I found there was the same broad spectrum of viewpoints about that conflict as there was in the UK, my homeland. Some thought the war was a good thing as they despised Saddam and could tell me tales from refugees of that regime. Other's were completely opposed to the war and others held the same viewpoint as myself that there should have been no conflict without a UN mandate and the war was therefore illegal.
I found the people of Turkey without exception to be hospitable and charming. Many assumed that comming from a European country I was a Christian and were somewhat suprised when I told them I was atheist, but they were not hostile towards me. In fact they seemed to be a lot more tolerant of my lack of belief than some people from my own home-town where there is an evangelical Christian church who regularly hold meetings in the town centre and try to convince people to come to their church.
I do think that media stereotypes warp peoples viewpoint. In UK the media made much of an extremist Islamic group who held demonstrations against returning British troops from Afghanistan, spitting at them, burning rememberance day poppies and calling for Sharia law in the UK. The Muslim Council of Britain who, while not agreeing with the war, condemned this action were given virtually no media coverage.
I think it is extremists of any religious persuasion who are the problem, not which particular religion they claim to represent. Plus media sensationalist bias.
Mary M. 50+
The rest of us will only be saying what we perceive......or have been led to believe through the media and history books.
I for one would love to see Muslims from all over the world participate in this debate....why don't you tag it to one or more of the talks???
That is my humble opinion.
edward long 100+
Ghassan Mustafa
In every religion there are a group of people or individuals who deviate from their religion, they either go to extremes or be far away from the values and principles of their religion. When you want to think of Islam think of it as a religion that is represented by the ones who apply it in a right way. You can not be judgmental without knowing about Islam and its laws. Going to Muslim countries and reading about Islam and getting to know moderate Muslims who know about Islam well will make you understand Islam more. Do not judge Islam by leaders such as Saddam and organizations such as Al-Qauda. Theses leaders and organizations do not represent Islam at all, because they call for bloodshed and wars. In Islam, extremism is prohibited because it deforms the image of Islam and leads to many issues such as bloodshed and hatred towards other religions. For example, the KKK the organization that opposed the equal rights of African Americans are not representative of Christianity and the same applied to the Islamic organizations that do not apply Islam.
"God made us tribes and nations to get to know each other." This is a quote from Quran that displays that Islam is tolerant and it is not an isolated religion. Many Muslim travel to the west as a sort of cultural exchange and to .Many Muslims like traveling to see the world and exchange knowledge and experiences. My father and my uncles and my friends traveled to the west.
Come to Jordan where I live and you will be amazed how Muslims and Christians live in peace and harmony.
Muslims and Christians in Jordan share their culture and food. No Muslim can insult a non-Muslim, and if one did so that would be wrong and many people will condemn him.
edward long 100+
You speak of "moderate Muslims". Does that mean there are "extremist Muslims", or what the world calls terrorists? How many categories of Muslims are there? These maniacal fiends who are slaughtering innocent people all over the world are members of the same faith as the millions of peace-loving, compassionate followers of Allah and his son Muhammed. The non-Muslim world is waiting for an explanation of that conundrum. Peace to you and to yours sir.
Mary M. 50+
People from Christian lands have pillaged and taken over other countries...well, look at the US.........If the American Indian had TED and the internet back then they would be saying Christians were terrorists.
I think that like anything else in life, there are true Muslims, and false Muslims....true christians, and false christians.
Jesus said that by their fruits you would recognize them.
Anyone can claim to be a Muslim or a Christian Edward, but their words, their actions......, are they peace loving? Are they neutral when it comes to war and politics? There is alot to be said on this topic....but since we have discussed this before, I'll leave it here.
I think Mustafa is trying to educate us as to true Muslims.
I for one I'm very thankful for his kindness and willingness to share his faith, and his country's attitude towards a global brotherhood.
Sending lots of warm salutations your way Edward........Mary
Mary M. 50+
Again I say to you......what truly is a terrorist.
It is all interconnected ED, whether you want to admit it or not.....hence, I feel I have not gone off topic.......but thank you kindly for trying to correct my supposedly lack of focus.
Here in the US alot of people got tarred and feathered during war time for being politically neutral, and exercising their right to love their enemy......they were "terrorized" by a government and people who were "Christians".....
I don't deny what you have stated, the jail time, and other such things for evangelizing.....but it is a governmental decision....yes, based on their "supposed" faith in Islam.....but Islam is not united.......it has many factions, just like christianity....
I will state again what I said, that Muslims should be the one's discussing this topic. NOT US.
I will retreat.....leave you to it..
Ghassan Mustafa
There are many religious groups all over the world who uses religion as a way to lead and control people such as Al-qaida. In Islam, they have no right to do that and this in turn violates the principles of Islam. They do thing in the name of God or Allah, and we as Muslims are against this and we despise them as well. As I said before, you can not judge Islam by terrorist organizations. The terrorist organizations does not represent Islam and therefore they are illegal. You did not notice that I did not associated Christianity with the KKK or the discrimination by white people against the African Americans or Abu Ghreb jail in Iraq or the war on Iraq itself. All religions all over the world call for peace, but unfortunately some people violate the laws of their religions and they try to lead people by the name of their religion. These people are totally ignorant; they cause problems to the followers of their religion.
I am going to mention again that Islam has nothing to do with killing. You could be a Muslim on your ID, but you has nothing to do with Islam and its principles or teachings.Therefore you could commit crimes against humanity.
To Mary....what you said is totally right.
There are false Muslims and Christians.They do not represent both religions at all.
arwa tayyem
we as Muslims and humans condemn all acts of terrorism wherever it accrued . we don’t teach our children to kill, we teach them LIFE, Sir!
Matthieu Miossec 100+
Mary M. 50+
I couldn't help but go find some information on the Jordan.
Look what I found:
http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/irf/2006/71424.htm
Very, very interesting, how many Christian faiths coexist with the Muslims, just like you said.
Thank you very much again for your wonderful reply.
edward long 100+
MacDonald Mark
Christians were responsible for a remarkable amount of what we would label today as terrorism and war crimes throughout Europe during the middle ages. Even the west have dealt with fringe Christian militancy in modern times like the mentioned example of the KKK. Timothy McVeigh is another name that comes to mind.
The Jewish state of Israel currently militantly oppresses the Palestinians effectively on the basis of ancient religious dogmas.
SO I would propose that the very premise of one religion being more or less tolerant and militant than others is a faulty one. Islam has been singled out as a militant religion by the western media since the September 11th 2001 attacks, this is quite obvious in hindsight and not entirely difficult to understand.
That is all neither here nor there the point is that we have a political model where all religions are tolerated and granted freedom (secularism) and it has had a reasonably successful track record thus far. It should be promoted more.
edward long 100+
John Merryman
I think part of the problem is that there is very little consideration of the histories of the various religions, as opposed to the claims.
It could be said that religion presents society's vision of what it is about, while government is the management of society. For its first 700 years Islam was one of history's most successful political movements, then basically coasted on that success for the next 600 years and has only really been eclipsed by the industrialized west in the last hundred years, since the fall of the Ottomans. So there is a connection between government and religion which goes to the very core of Islam.
On the other hand, Christianity was profoundly brutalized by existing government for its first several hundred years, before being co-opted by an empire in decline. In the process it was converted from a grassroots, multifaceted movement, to a highly centralized one, whose function was to validate the role of the government. The cross went from being a symbol of triumph over suffering, to a war totem. So there is a very deep and abiding split in Christianity between the church and state that is as fundamental to it, as the connection is strong for Islam.
It should be noted, for those agnostic in religious affiliation, it was the polytheists who invented democracy. When you have a theology where the Gods argue, it's reasonable to have a political system based on debate. On the other hand, monotheism is very supportive of monarchy and other forms of strong state power, since if there is just the Big Guy in charge up in heaven, then it will likely get reflected down here on earth.
The logical fallacy of monotheism is the idea of the absolute, the universal state, as apex, when it is basis; Neutral, not singular. So a spiritual absolute would logically be the essence from which we rise, not an ideal from which we fell. The forms we adopt are inherently subject to context. Religions are like language; Essential, but idiosyncratic.
R H 20+
edward long 100+
R H 20+
edward long 100+
R H 20+
Obey No1kinobe 50+
I don't know enough about the Koran to say whether it encourages tolerance. My understanding is historically Islam was tolerant of other religions in the lands they controlled.
I understand Islam is believed to be the final revelation, building on the old testament and perhaps the Teachings of Jesus. The old testament god was not particularly tolerant. More like a jealous tribal god that killed nearly all humans with the flood.
I think any religion has the potential to support violence and intolerance. For starters, most religions think they have the absolute truth. They also to some extent rely on faith, surrendering reason and questioning. It seems sometimes the most pious are the most dangerous.
I guess societal and cultural issues play a part. Indonesian and Malaysia are mainly Islamic but not the same as Saudi etc. I am concerned about the spread of Wahabi islam. Even in Malaysia, if a Muslim changes religion the penalty is death. Not very tolerant..
Also the issues regarding sexual equality clash with enlightenment values.
Some of the violence associated with Islam, may be more political based reflecting a reaction to Western imperialism, power etc.
There are plenty of wars fought over land without religion being a major feature. I think religious belief intensifies the issues in the middle east especially Palestine/Israel. Sometimes religion is a rally point, but believing god is on your side makes conflict more intense even if other factors are at play
I would say that even though the US has a high proportion of evangeical christians they are not as violent as people to be claiming to be muslim. Maybe that just reflects a more peaceful and civil society and secular government.