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Kathleen Gilligan-Smith
Denver, CO
United States

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Green Home Energy=Hydrogen Generators-alternative sources

I propose .......that we research, communicate and develop a product, with the help of all countries that are working on successful green energy sources and adapt it into single family living.

I have seen shows where they have been working on Low Pressure Hydrogen tanks with special organic storage cells that make it store energy longer and safer and I think that it would be a great option to have to take your home off the grid and into a Hydrogen Generator for all your home's energy needs.

It would work like the backup generators do, but would have a storage tank/battery for the home's electrical needs and only kick in the generator when the electricity runs low. Like hybrid car engines do. It would also offer a safer system because it would not be producing poisonous gases that could cause death from carbon monoxide leaks. I for one, am trying to figure out a way to bring this into a working system for my new home that I want to be totally self sufficient. I figure it would be cheaper in the long run and it would be greener for my planet. :) I have seen some versions of this for large scale business formats but not for personal home use. I'd like to see it considered for an alternative energy source that anyone can adapt to their homes. If you know of anything like this please let me know? Thank you. KE Gilligan-Smith

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Closing Statement from Kathleen Gilligan-Smith

I FOUND IT!!! I finally found the video that got me wondering about this in the first place --

http://video.pbs.org/video/1768954299/

It is the NOVA series on Making Stuff.... and it is the Making Stuff-CLEANER episodes---. I could not believe all the progress we have made but it got me wondering WHY.....why can't we get all these people in this episode together to come up with the best of all of them??? If we could get........The guy with the chicken feathers that are as absorbant as carbon nano tubes at a greener/cheaper way to produce it - that allows storage of Hydrogen in a container without pressure..........along with the guy who developed the BLOOM BOX technology that helps run Google and several other companies.......and the guy that produced a paper thin 'natural leaf' solar strip that operates in water to produce hydrogen with minimal light........and also the guys that have a 500 hp electric motorcycle because of the use of lithium batteries......... if we could get all these people together to create a self sustaining power storage/unit to self contain our homes power and our transportation needs..... - we'd be better for it! Harnessing the solar and hydrogen energy and storing it safely - long term............THAT'S what we need to do now.

Just sayin...............the answers are here....we just need to get them all together to produce the products we need to advance our lives to a cleaner/healthier future!!! :)

So....GO.... WATCH THE VIDEO..... and see what I'm talking about???

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Kathleen Gilligan-Smith
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Apr 24 2012: I understand about the storage issues...but wouldn't it make more sense to really have it self-contained outside? I'd feel safer that way.....like what we currently use for the 500gal tanks of propane gas used for heating....... ?? I wish I could find the dvd that I had watched that showed the new scientists that were working on low pressure storage tank systems and battery fillings that were organic!!! It was soooooo interesting and it's what started me thinking along the lines of personal home use! If I find it I'll post it here. :)
Kathleen Gilligan-Smith
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Apr 22 2012: What is this used for??? Isn't this a power source generator? and..........wouldn't the 'idea' of it work for home use?

http://www.hgenerators.com/
- James Adams
  - 0
  Apr 22 2012: Kathleen Gilligan-Smith - No this is not an electrical generator, but is a gas generator. It split the Hydrogen from water to do so.
  
  Thanks in advance for your consideration, James
James Adams
- 0
Apr 22 2012: The question that I have is How Much Hydrogen To Store? How much would your typical electric generator burn in 24 hours, a week, a month? I know that the steel LPG tanks come in a large variety of sizes, but are they large enough? If not how large do they need to be?

Thanks in advance for your consideration, James
James Adams
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Apr 22 2012: KE Gilligan-Smith - If you know of anything like this please let me know?

I would stay connected to the local electric grid or be prepared to be without electricity for the time required for maintenance on your generator. If you stay on the grid check with your utility company about requirements to ensure the safety of electrical workmen down line from you.

As for the electric generators, small engines can already be converted to run on a variety of commercially available gasses. And for storage of the gas, most people have had or seen LPG tanks in yards. I believe these tanks maybe sufficiently strong to contain the Hydrogen safely.

Thanks in advance for your consideration, James
- Kathleen Gilligan-Smith
  - +1
  Apr 22 2012: Here is a snipping from one of the articles I've read....they are looking at several ways to store the hydrogen. I can't remember which documentary I was watching that showed Hydrogen Generators already in use at what I thought, was Googles Headquarters...but for the life of me I can't remember who the company was that produced it. When I find it I will post it here.
  
  "Electrolysis is a process that is most common for hydrogen production. Hydrogen generators produce
  hydrogen at a flow rate that is not sufficient enough for direct compressor use. A buffer container is used for
  collecting enough volume of hydrogen from the generator for the compressor. Since hydrogen coming out of
  hydrogen generators is
  of low pressure, the
  buffer becomes bulky.
  Both hydrogen
  generator and hydrogen
  compressor are heavy
  users of electricity;
  besides, fuel cells are
  fragile for hydrogen
  supply of unstable
  pressure and low purity
  of hydrogen.
  Metal Hydride (MH) is the answer for the given dilemma. Compared to high pressure tanks, metal
  hydride storages require less pressure and compression. Its volumetric density is no larger than that of high
  pressure tanks. The current development of metal hydride technology has reached point that for same
  capacity of hydrogen content, metal hydride storages are no heavier in weight, but 15 times smaller in volume
  than 150bar high pressure tanks. Charged with lower purity hydrogen gas, metal hydrides purify the stored
  gas instantly, and deliver higher purity gas at no additional cost. For the benefit of fuel cells, metal hydrides
  deliver high purity, stable pressure hydrogen at constant flow rate, which considerably prolongs equipment
  lifespan. "
  - James Adams
    
    0
    Apr 22 2012: Kathleen Gilligan-Smith - from the link you posted the largest available storage tank they have is 762 L.
    http://www.hgenerators.com/
    I don't think that would be enough storage for any of the alternatives I spoke about above.
    
    Thanks in advance for your consideration, James
James Adams
- 0
Apr 22 2012: Peter Lindsay & Filipe Gazzinelli L. F. Werneck - I believe that you are confusing what they are calling a Hydrogen Generator with the actual gas production plant. What they are talking about I believe is a Hydrogen fueled electric generator large enough to supply all the power needs for a single family home. As well as storage for the Hydrogen itself. The actual gas production plants should be near Hydro-electric dams both for the electricity, and the water. The water would be the raw material that the Hydrogen is produced from, if I remember my High School Science Class correctly.

As for the electric generators, small engines can already be converted to run on a variety of commercially available gasses. And for storage of the gas, most people have had or seen LPG tanks in yards. I believe these tanks maybe sufficiently strong to contain the Hydrogen safely.

Thanks in advance for your consideration, James
- Filipe Gazzinelli L. F. Werneck
  - 0
  Apr 23 2012: James Adams, I think I got it right.
  
  And I loved your idea of putting the gas production plants near dams, that will provide both the water and the clean energy for producing Hydrogen. Awesome solution, mainly for my country - Brazil, where more than 54% of our energy comes from Hydro-electric dams.
  
  Distributing energy through Hydrogen and producing electric energy nearer to the consumers might reduce losses on transmission incredibly, don't you think? If we could find a way to distribute solar and wind power like this (those not built near water).... I think they are doing it on Argentina, in a far-from-the-city wind farm.
  
  Thanks, Filipe
- peter lindsay 30+
  - 0
  Apr 26 2012: Unfortunately James I'm from Australia where we have niether water nor mountains so hydro-electricity is a bit of a problem for us.
Kathleen Gilligan-Smith
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Apr 4 2012: The H2 generators that I had seen on a Science show....was working on a bioengineered storage cell that would allow the Hydrogen to be stored without pressure (like current gas tanks) and that would make it safer... The generators I was thinking about would be an outside system that would operate like current backup emergency generators.......but would run on Hydrogen instead of gasoline. ??? I don't know, I was just thinking that with all the people on this planet - we should be able to get a group of like minded people together that can come up with a more cost effective way to power our homes.
peter lindsay 30+
- 0
Apr 4 2012: But still, how are we powering the hydrogen generators?
Filipe Gazzinelli L. F. Werneck
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Apr 4 2012: I also think that Hydrogen storage might be a awesome alternative. However I do not imagine everybody owning a Hydrogen tank inside the house.

I propose that we should research a system that produces H2 near the energy production, distributes this Hydrogen (avoiding energy losses on transmission), and then regenerating energy in local fuel cells, a more distributed production.

I think it would be more viable and secure than each house having a H2 generator and a fuel cell.
- Kathleen Gilligan-Smith
  - +1
  Apr 22 2012: Here is the link for Shell's hydro station that is on site....this is what I was wondering too...why cant this working idea be addapted for a personal home use? I know, I'm out there....but, if we already know how to produce hydrogen power.......seems to me that the logical end would be to power our homes from it too. Electric/hydrogen and wind/solar should, in my opinion, all be utilized to personally power our homes and transportation......but then again I'm thinking more like rural homes not city.....but building a larger on demand site for city users........well why not??? ;) I truly believe that as humans go......we can solve any issue if we work together and let the creative muses out to do what they do best - create! :D
  
  http://www.shell.com/home/content/media/news_and_media_releases/archive/2008/la_hydrogen_station_26062008.html
  - James Adams
    
    0
    Apr 22 2012: Kathleen Gilligan-Smith - "In hydrogen vehicles, an electric motor powers the wheels. A chemical reaction inside a unit called a fuel cell – usually between hydrogen and oxygen – creates electricity for the motor."
    The fuel cell could certainly be used to generate electricity for your home, however I am not sure if it would be cost effective. And please don't forget that Hydrogen and Fuel Cells are both flammable and explosive.
    This is from the other link you posted - Generators™ 5000W / 5kW PEM fuel cell with control unit
    for hydrogen gas only $19,995 - this is just the fuel cell, and only generates 5kw. The Hydrogen gas generator is and here I am only guessing "LM-3000 150 1.5 3000 180 0.18 0.016128 2.290176 $0.06
    $22.50 $17,595" it may be more or less as the fuel cell requires a max flow rate 64 L per minute of Hydrogen gas to make the full 5kw.
    Alternatively you could go in this direction from the same link as above "Generators™ 100% hydrogen gas and 40% hydrogen gas / 60% CNG gas generators:
    100% Hydrogen Gas Internal Combustion Engine HICE 5kW $9,895 & storage tank for locally obtainable Hydrogen gas from a welding supply house or such. This setup has an initial cost of 1/2 or less of the fuel cell alone.
    
    Thanks in advance for your consideration, James
  - Filipe Gazzinelli L. F. Werneck
    
    0
    Apr 23 2012: I am totally with you when you say wind/solar should be used to personally power our houses, and this for both city and country residences.
    I think the biggest problem with H2 generation in houses is safety, since - as James said - it is flammable. This way a bigger generator (that would also reduce costs) with constant monitoring is better.
    Those bigger generators might not be viable for rural and isolated homes, and even the small ones would fell the lack of a supply chain of the H2 gas. In my opinion solar is the best solution here!
    
    Lest's discuss it more, and we will find the best solution, indeed.
    Thanks
    
    Filipe
peter lindsay 30+
- 0
Mar 27 2012: How are we powering the hydrogen generator?

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