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Heather White

beekeeper,

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Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law is unconstitutional and thus illegal

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

To protect the right to venture out of your home (liberty) to purchase sweets for your kid brother (pursuit of happiness) and to expect to return home alive (life).

Discuss...

This is not a debate about US Gun Law in general.

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    pat gilbert 50+

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    Mar 24 2012: In the comments below I see the use of the word ethics but the context seems like you mean morals?

    Gun control does not decrease crime it is scientifically proven not to lessen crime this is just a fact.

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/Commentary/com-10_19_05_JS.html
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      Ehis Odijie 10+

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      Mar 25 2012: Are you being serious? Which means free circulation of guns reduces crime. Do you really believe that?

      For a start there is such a thing as 'gun crime' which is the use of a firearm to threaten or inflict violence or harm. It will lost its meaning in the absence of firearm. More handguns in circulation equals more 'violent crime'. Keeping guns out of the hands of criminals prevents gun crime - hence crime in general. This is common sense you do not need to consult science or any statistics to know that.

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        Krisztián Pintér 200+

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        TED Translator
        Mar 25 2012: so we have two statements:

        1. gun control reduces the number of gunshots
        2. gun control does not reduce crime

        don't you see a way to reconcile?
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          Ehis Odijie 10+

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          Mar 25 2012: Krisztián, Where did you get both statements from?
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          Heather White 10+

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          Mar 25 2012: Hi Ehis,No worries - nothing you've said is a problem at all - I get confused about Krisztian's contributions too. I'm trying to get the debate back to SYG as this law appears to be a "get out of jail free" opportunity to anyone who'd like to kill. If I lived in the USA I'd feel very vulnerable in any state with this law - it's a bizarre law that makes murder legal! Have you noticed the reply buttons missing? It adds to the confusion, since replies are not always in sequence.
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        Heather White 10+

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        Mar 25 2012: Ehis, I'm so sorry you feel unable to continue with this debate on TED. I hope you can see that the debate was supposed to be about the Stand Your Ground law - unfortunately, its been hijacked into a debate about gun control in general.
        Best wishes
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          Ehis Odijie 10+

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          Mar 25 2012: Sorry Heather if you feel i am introducing any form of diversion to the debate. My initial comment were directed to Mr Pat, as you can see. I think Krisztián is trying to say something which i find very hard to understand.
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        Krisztián Pintér 200+

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        Mar 25 2012: "Where did you get both statements from?"

        one: "For a start there is such a thing as 'gun crime' which is the use of a firearm to threaten or inflict violence or harm. It will lost its meaning in the absence of firearm."

        two: "Gun control does not decrease crime"

        not hard to find. this thread.
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          Ehis Odijie 10+

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          Mar 25 2012: "I am responding to pat gilbert who happen to think that Gun control does not decrease crime". Next time read the complete statement.

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          Heather White 10+

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          Mar 25 2012: This debate is about Stand Your Ground legislation Please start your own debate if you wish to persist in a general debate about gun law.
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        Krisztián Pintér 200+

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        Mar 25 2012: ehis, first quote is from pat gilbert, not you

        and the question is still: don't you see a way to reconcile? because there is.
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          pat gilbert 50+

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          Mar 25 2012: I don't see a way to reconcile it is sort of like 2 statments:

          The Amazon is the longest river in the world.

          The Nile is the longest river in the world.

          One of the statements is wrong.

          Of course I'm not saying negate the rule of law. Hmm I wonder if they have more SYG problems in Somalia or less?
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        pat gilbert 50+

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        Mar 25 2012: Ethis

        I know it is counter intuitive but none the less gun control does not lower crime.
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          Krisztián Pintér 200+

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          Mar 25 2012: i react here as i can't up there. the reconciliation of course is that if you take away some guns, and crime does not drop, you know that one or both of these are true:

          1, some crimes that usually done with guns are now committed without guns
          2. while less crimes are committed with legal guns, more crimes are committed with illegal ones
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          Eddie Solomon

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          Mar 25 2012: Okay with this law number of "justifiable homicide" has tripled and so did gun sells. Showing that making guns available and giving a person reason to uses does increase deaths period.
          Can say we that all those deaths were legitimate life or death self defense cases?
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        pat gilbert 50+

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        Mar 25 2012: Krisztián

        3. I think the main reason, is the most obvious one, criminals are deterred from committing a crime where they might get shot.
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          Krisztián Pintér 200+

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          Mar 25 2012: well, yes, if crime not only hasn't gone up, but in fact went down. my cases apply if it remains the same. (must admit i didn't follow your link. for me, it is not relevant, as i oppose gun control on moral / natural rights grounds. i'm not much of a utilitarian.)

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