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Heather White

Life Story Recorder, Family Echoes


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Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law is unconstitutional and thus illegal

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

To protect the right to venture out of your home (liberty) to purchase sweets for your kid brother (pursuit of happiness) and to expect to return home alive (life).


This is not a debate about US Gun Law in general.


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    Mar 24 2012: Zimmerman’s lawyer now admits that SYG law does not apply in this case. What a relief! I thought I was suffering from an altered state of topsy-turvy reality.

    It looks like Zimmerman will now be claiming self defence - Trayvon Martin's family lawyer has challenged this saying there is no self defence against a bag of candy.

    How can Zimmerman follow that? Plead guilty and seek mercy?
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      Mar 24 2012: why are you so much interested in this single case? zimmerman can burn in hell for all i care. our concern must be on a more general level. how to organize justice systems? are there any problem with our current ones? what is that? how to fix it? what is the root of the problems? and so on.

      or even go theoretical. what about the SYG law? is it ethical or not? are you obliged to retreat when attacked? are you expected to try to reduce harm? do we need to minimize "overall" harm, if such a thing exists at all?
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        Mar 25 2012: are you obliged to retreat when attacked?
        You're not obligated to retreat if attacked. Its Simple something you may perceive you as a threat you can take it down with any amount of force.

        is it ethical or not?
        It's not at least not in a country with a well trained police force like U.S.

        o we need to minimize "overall" harm, if such a thing exists at all?
        they're more than one way to defend yourself without killing
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        Mar 25 2012: You have odd views Krisztian, both extreme and contradictory - sometimes delivered in a confrontational, personal manner. Being provocative is okay in a debate so long as you're consistent in your argument, progress your argument, stay within the remit of the debate, keep your examples relivant and remain respectful - otherwise you lose credibility and people will switch off.
        • Mar 25 2012: Heather,
          I've been reading this thread with interest and hadn't intended to post.
          But now I feel compelled to, because I sincerely believe that this is a very
          unfair comment. I've noted a lot inflammatory comments in this thread and
          some serious factual errors, but they weren't from Krisztián. Clearly our
          perceptions are different. Respectfully,
          John Penn
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          Mar 25 2012: The facts of the case are not fully released yet,for all we know trayvon would have noticed zimmerman following him and took it upon himself to confront zimmerman.Two people suspicious of each other,one an overzealous security freak and the other thinking he was being stalked.

          If the gun wasn't there then what would be the outcome?Probably zimmerman would be carrying some other weapon,a knife which would result in the same outcome but with the possibility of flight and life or a baton with a low probability of death as a result without discounting it.

          A car is a transport device used to get us from A to b but in a split second this can change to a lethal force on wheels that takes alot of lives everyday but we are trained to drive these things and taught to obey the road rules and to keep our eyes peeled,of course we can't control or anticipate everything on the roads, we're only human.

          The gun is a different matter,it's design is specific,it has no other purpose other than to shoot a projectile.If the training is inadequate as it is clearly seen in this case then it's the system that's at fault for not making sure that that person had enough training to understand the full impact of it's use.It takes three years for our kids here to get a car license.How long does it take for someone in the states to get their gun permit?
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        Mar 25 2012: John, I stand by my challenge to Krisztian. He can look after himself.
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          Mar 25 2012: what challenge would that be? all i saw was an opinion on my comments in general, with no arguments or anything backing it up.

          and it is especially strange, considering that i asked the same questions that you asked in another thread a little later.

          i was indeed rude ... to zimmerman. in what way does that concern you?

          i try to minimize the amount of talk about myself. it is not the first time some people set themselves the task to "fix" my way of presenting arguments, instead of replying to them. i tried to tell you multiple times that it is neither relevant nor interesting. but it seems that you care more about my person than your own topic. just take some minutes to skim through my posts here to find dozens of very much on topic observations which you simply ignored. instead, you went on to talk about me. not interested, sorry.

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