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Shaheem Carter


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This Question is for the people that believe in god. (Atheist views also please)

Did you ever thought of this, and if so, please explain to me how does this make sense to you,
Because it doesn't to me.

BTW I'm atheist, but I'm asking this question from a christian point of view.
(I don't claim to no everything, just a truth seeker)

OK, Here we go:

God created you,(Remember you didn't ask to be here,) and then gave you an ultimatum, Worship me and go to Heaven, or You'll burn for eternity in my hell fire.

But...What if i don't want either, why can't i create a third option?
Really, is there any free will in this or is this just free choice?
Besides were ever i was before you created me, am sure i was perfectly fine.
then you decide to bring me here and trap me in your Crappy Options (Heaven or Hell).

Ofcourse if am a believer i wouldn't want to burn in hell, so i'll pick the other option which is heaven.
but am only picking heaven because hell sucks a bit more.

So basically it's worship me or you'll pay. and if i decide not to, Hell awaits me. So, if god really is love why is he so upset and is going to burn me indefinitely, because i think he's a myth that man created to find solace in?
i mean, what type of god leaves no evidence at all, and gets angry because i don't acknowledge him? Let's face it, you can tell me god did it, god created it, god this, god that..but it's all faith based. No matter how much you tell me, you have no proof. So as far as am concerned, if i tell you a pink unicorn in blue jeans created all of this, you can't disprove that.


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      Mar 26 2012: I really try my best to understand if you Christians actually study what you read. i mean how come i see it but you don't. tell me how is it, god created this beautiful garden with adam and eve, then allowed a ''Serpent'' to gain access to it and temp them? first off, why is satan even in the same existence as adam and eve. this is the same guy that tried to take over your heaven so you cast him out (according to the bible) so you cast him out, and ironically he gains access to your beautiful garden? wow! god fails again!!! another question, people always say you can't enjoy good without the bad, you need pain in order to grow (and i agree) but answer this, what if adam never ate the fruit? then pain,sadness etc would of not exist. so if we really need the opposite of bad to grow, then if adam and eve never sinned they wouldn't of growN mentally? they wouldn't of been able to appreciate the good since there wouldn't have been no bad? if that's the case, your god was cheering for satan and praying to himself that adam failed. what makes you think god didn't call satan & give him directions and uttered: GET THEM MY FRIEND.
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        Mar 26 2012: Shaheem,

        The funny thing about Christians is that they really ignore much of the old testament because of the fact that they know how much of a monster God was, so they choose to just focus on the new testament without really realizing two things:

        (1) they still adhere to parts of the old testament. Many Christians I know constantly talk about the first five gospels.
        (2) Jesus actually never really repudiated any of the things that his father said in the old testament (or for those who are Jewish and will get offended for me saying Old Testament I'll just say Torah). All he did was add compassion to the mix but other than that he also talked about how if people do no follow what his father says they'll burn in hell. (For those who think this is false I am more than willing to get a direct quote from the bible)

        since its only three more hours left for this thread I'll say this: there are many accounts in bible that really do not match with history:

        For example, Moses saving the Jews from the Egyptians is not a true story. There is no account of such events taking place in Egyptian history.

        Secondly, Jesus being crucified at the Cross on top of a Hill on a sunset is not true at all. Back in those days, Romans used to put people on the cross on their roads, not hills. The reason for this is because the Romans used these people as examples. This was to show anybody that if they broke Roman law, the same thing would happen to them. It was not part of Roman custom to crucify people on a Hill. All roads leading to Rome would allow traveler to see who has been bad and Jesus would not have been an exception to this rule..

        I could go on but being that I know very few Christians know this (because they get their faith or facts from the Bible) I am with Shaheem in saying, How many of you actually study what you read?

        From my understanding, very little of what is said in the bible is factual. Knowing this I know realize why faith is so important
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          Mar 27 2012: Hi Orlando, just a few points and thanks for the thumbs. Especially the Old Testament has been written over the ages from appearances, from the perspective of the writers. It was not dictated but arranged in a way that it would make spiritual sense for each of us individually many thousands of years later.
          Related to that is this, even if you, as you said, can show in the Bible where it talks of burning in hell, nothing there does burn because hell is a spiritual 'place' not a physical place. As you may know, non-material will not burn.

          What will feel like burning is spiritual hate. Those in hell hate the good deeds that any good person does or truth that anyone believes. They would love nothing more than to destroy that good and that truth, and burn with hatred toward anyone preventing them from killing and murdering such people in this life on earth.
          Talk to anyone that has worked in any prison system and you'll hear and understand what I'm talking about.

          God's love coming down to those that hate Him burns them up.

          One other very important point is that Christianity has separated God and Jesus (which you seem to support). In reality, however, God and Jesus are one and the same. There are not three persons in a God 'team'. There is a Trinity of aspects. God is the soul of Jesus and the Holy Spirit is His influence on humanity. One God, not three. Just as we are one person, not three. We also have a soul, a body and an influence on the world around us.
          So to see God as a monster may not be the correct interpretation especially since He gave up His body to save humanity.
          This should make clear also that the Christian Easter story is completely off the mark, where a son is murdered to make the Father feel better. Mafia any one?
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        Mar 26 2012: Sorry to see you take and manipulate the info in Genesis to justify a non-belief in God.

        Nothing, and I mean nothing! in the first 11 chapters of Genesis should be taken literally because it is all a parable. Every detail has a spiritual meaning, includes the Creation Story.

        Adam was not a person but the first church or belief system on earth. Things should not be taken literally because e.g. when it says: Cain travelled East of Eden and found a wife, shows Adam and Eve could not be the only people around. But again, even where Cain went and what he did has a spiritual meaning.

        Everything in the Bible is there for a reason and that reason is not to tell you what happened thousands or millions of years ago. It creates scenarios that tell us how we can, CAN, grow spiritually if we want to.

        The Garden of Eden is a state of mind, a heavenly state. Spiritually mankind declined and started to prefer believing its senses (serpent).

        This article deals with the Creation Story and Adam and Eve. There is no room and I do not have the expertise to give the details. But if you want to see things from a spiritual perspective that makes sense.. we can move back to the Garden of Eden or live with serpents.

        This also means there is no such thing as original sin. If we take the text literally we should see Noah as the beginning of mankind and 'sin' and not Adam. But there never was a world wide flood of water (or a literal Ark to survive it).
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          Mar 26 2012: Although I am a non-believer I have much respect for your response Adrian and I am happy to know that there is someone here who, at least from what I read from your other post, believes in God but yet is still honest enough to admit certain things.

          I do not see how its really a major problem for someone to admit that many things in the bible are not meant to be taken as factual information but instead a way for one to gain more insight into their spirituality. I personally do not see a problem with that account.

          The fact many accounts of the bible may not be true does not, in my eyes, take away from the validity of spiritual experience and I believe someone mentioned this before "its about experience, not facts.

          at the end of the day, the only thing that can possibly matter is subjectivity.
        • Mar 31 2012: Adriaan,

          I am puzzled by your statement: "Adam was not a person but the first church or belief system on earth. "

          I assume you mean that Adam symbolizes the first church or belief system on Earth. Perhaps, but the first belief system on Earth would have taken form hundreds of thousands of years before the Garden of Eden story was codified. Did you mean that Adam symbolizes the first beginnings of belief systems (which no doubt were animistic)?
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        Apr 1 2012: Carlin. Adam is not one person but a church, the Most Ancient Church, in fact Noah was the next 'full' church, the Ancient Church. Any offspring and derivatives are evolving belief systems, usually degrading from something better. The issues between Cain and Able are about the priorities in the doctrines of those two churches regarding faith and good works (an issue still very prevalent in Christianity today).
        The Garden of Edem was not a physical garden but a (heavenly) state of mind that could indeed have existed thousands, possibly millionis of years.
        This is the way people in those ancient days kept info and passed it on, in stories they made up.

        Did you see the link in my post above about Adam and Eve? It may be what you are looking for but if you want more (much more than I can relate to you) this is a link that handles every detail
        When you look at this link you could start on page one but regarding Adam it is best to go to (pdf) page 54 or the page number on the page itself says 50. That is the reason why anyone wants to quote Swedenborg we quote the paragraph number because that never changes, pages do.
        So I do believe Adam was indeed the first spiritual church with natural 'beliefs' before them. I also believe that whatever is alive has spirit, that is what gives life to matter.

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