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Shaheem Carter

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This Question is for the people that believe in god. (Atheist views also please)

Did you ever thought of this, and if so, please explain to me how does this make sense to you,
Because it doesn't to me.

BTW I'm atheist, but I'm asking this question from a christian point of view.
(I don't claim to no everything, just a truth seeker)

OK, Here we go:

God created you,(Remember you didn't ask to be here,) and then gave you an ultimatum, Worship me and go to Heaven, or You'll burn for eternity in my hell fire.

But...What if i don't want either, why can't i create a third option?
Really, is there any free will in this or is this just free choice?
Besides were ever i was before you created me, am sure i was perfectly fine.
then you decide to bring me here and trap me in your Crappy Options (Heaven or Hell).

Ofcourse if am a believer i wouldn't want to burn in hell, so i'll pick the other option which is heaven.
but am only picking heaven because hell sucks a bit more.

So basically it's worship me or you'll pay. and if i decide not to, Hell awaits me. So, if god really is love why is he so upset and is going to burn me indefinitely, because i think he's a myth that man created to find solace in?
i mean, what type of god leaves no evidence at all, and gets angry because i don't acknowledge him? Let's face it, you can tell me god did it, god created it, god this, god that..but it's all faith based. No matter how much you tell me, you have no proof. So as far as am concerned, if i tell you a pink unicorn in blue jeans created all of this, you can't disprove that.

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    James Howells

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    Mar 23 2012: My personal beliefs.

    I am a Catholic....At least I consider myself one.

    I have heard many arguments for and against Him/Her. From crackpot camp counselors to Stephen Hawkins. I understand pretty much what they all say. But at the end all the arguments just fizzle and fade into people trying to talk about something they cant comprehend.

    I Believe there is a God,
    But there isn't a human alive that fully understands his/Her intentions... Or totally understands...even my own chosen religion.
    I think there are very few TRUE atheist...if any. Every one has something inside them that tells you there is more out there..That's why we ask questions and think about it so much...maybe that's where " in his image" came from? Most atheists just cant stand organized religion or people telling them what to do, they want to make up their own minds....Maybe that's where " in his image" came from!"


    So basically just because the way its been explained to you doesn't make sense doesn't mean God doesn't exist. Nobody can explain it right... look inside yourself to see the truth....maybe thats where " in his image" came from.
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      Shaheem Carter

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      Mar 23 2012: So tell me this, what makes you think how it was explained to you is right? what if there is a god, but your serving the wrong one? then all your time on earth worshiping your god was and.... is all in vain. there can be a million lies, but only one truth. every religion believes there the truth, Jehovah witness, catholic,seventh day Adventist, Muslim etc. and if you believe your religion is all truth, then you have to believe the others are some truth and some lies. my point: iv'e seen religious people argue and debate among one another more then gang members. religion is bad, very bad. it equals division. if your a believer then fine, but why the religious titles? why not just be called a man of god?
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        James Howells

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        Mar 23 2012: Ohh I know its been explained to me wrong. Like I said I don't believe anyone has all the answers. It has been explained to me so wrongly at times I felt that internal "what the hell" that all atheists feel. But instead of denying everything I took a step back and looked at the big picture. The essence of Gods message. And Its all about how we treat other people. Now you might think... Do I really need faith/religion/God for that.... Yeah I probably do.

        I know why people are atheists. Its because religion as a whole contradicts...and we like to be in control. But that doesn't mean the whole concept is wrong. More than likely we are just seeing imperfect humans trying to carry out a perfect plan they don't fully understand.

        As for being a Catholic. I say I consider my self one... Mostly because that is the faith I was raised in. I do not agree with every viewpoint the church holds. I don't give a damn who you marry girl/girl boy/boy as long as your willing to take one for the team if the earth's population is ever in jeopardy...since I don't see that happening... I don't care if Mary was a virgin... I do believe in evolution ( as do most Catholics)... I see a point the point or purpose in most stories in the bible without taking them as historical fact...And I have no clue who is going to hell if it even exists... I don't think Budhists, Muslims ,Jewish people or doorknob worshiping monks from the arctic circle are going to burn in hell.
        I do know that at times in my life I felt a presence that I cant explain with chemical reactions or chance.. I have felt Gods presence...as most people have. We didn't come from nothing...and that's not just a cry out against the inevitable that just makes sense...
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          Shaheem Carter

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          Mar 23 2012: You said: We didn't come from nothing. Meaning: nothing can come out of nothing? so tell me. who created god? where did god's morals come from? Christians believe in Objective morality, but how can Objective morality come from a subjective god? ask yourself this, where is god's proof/evidence that what he considers ''wrong or right''? is actually fact? does he even have proof, or is ''wrong and right'' just a matter of his personal opinion? remember ''opinions aren't facts'' think about it, god murdered more people than Lucifer. What makes it right, because he said so? but i thought he uttered ''Thou Shall Not Kill!'' so killing is only right if he does it?
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          Verble Gherulous 20+

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          Mar 23 2012: @ Shaheem. What makes you say that God is subjective?

          Why do you believe that God has morals?

          What makes you say God murdered more people than Lucifer?
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        James Howells

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        Mar 24 2012: You asked "...who created God?" Well that's the big question isn't it. My answer is simply nobody. Before you say WHAT! Well then... Remember I personally believe nobody can truly comprehend God...The closest we can get is looking at ourselves...and sometimes that's not a good picture....but the reason we have such a hard time comprehending him is because he exists without time and any word used as a reference to time does not apply to him/her as a being. One other thing in our world that does not follow the rules of time.... Light. God is often referred to as the "Light". There is a lot of interesting comparisons on this point.
        As for the old testament and the acts of God. I can honestly say I have no clue about some of them. He seems pretty harsh and unfair and you wont find me on any street corner preaching fire and brimstone...Instead of the 10 commandments..THOU SHALL NOT!!! Try looking at the Beatitudes.. Be a peacemaker...thirst for righteousness...don't be afraid to stand up against what is wrong...Now did God decide all these thing are right or just? Do most of us feel these within ourselves as right?. Did he know this is what was best for us. Most other animals don't feel these desires within themselves.
        PS: I realize I wont change your mind about anything...but I do believe God wants us to ask questions rather than just doing as your parents do or following a charismatic televangalist.
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        edward long 100+

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        Mar 24 2012: As you can see Shaheem you have touched the souls of many believers with your provocative inquiry. TED limits responses to three so that these kind of conversations do not become marathon disputes generating much more heat than light. Please notice all of your respondents demonstrate a sense of patience and concern for your searching questions. You are experiencing the real world application of the teachings of Jesus Christ. Faith is a free gift of God's grace (Ephesians 2:8, 9). If you do not have faith it is because God has not given it to you. There is no other way to have faith, only as a gift from God. If you consider the evidence, both physical (Psalm 19; Romans 1:18-22), and spiritual (the Holy Bible), and decide to reject it all as fraudulent untruth, then you will never have everlasting life, instead you will perish, which is to become as if you never existed (John 3:16). Do not trifle with this subject as a way to entertain yourself online. Rid your heart of arrogance and begin a humble, open-minded search for God. He invites people to seek Him through the Holy Bible. You are correct to suspect modern translations of the Bible. Use the Authorized King James Bible, it is most faithful to the Majority Texts which are in-turn most faithful to the earliest manuscript copies. This is not a fun little game to be played using sophistry and endless challenges. Seek ye the LORD while He may be found. (Isaiah 55:6). May God move you to seek Him, Shaheem, farewell.
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          Shaheem Carter

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          Mar 24 2012: You said: If you do not have faith it is because God has not given it to you. There is no other way to have faith, only as a gift from God.

          so god shows favoritism then? how is it he gave you it and not me and every atheist/Agnostic?
          People don't have faith because they can see through the god foolishness, you claiming you were single out and got your gift of faith from god is just arrogance speaking.
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          James Howells

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          Mar 24 2012: I uderstand a lot of what you are saying Shaheem, but I feel like you deny the exsitance of God for two reasons. 1) because you look at the world and it doesnt seem like a place ruled like a loving God. 2) because you take things people are saying out of context..try to apply them to your life or how you think God should be and then play "devils"..haa haa advocate.
          as for 1) there are definatly parts of this world that do not represent God. but is that his fault. If your Dad sends you to the store to get a gallon of milk and you go to the store and rob it because you felt like keeping the money. You get caught and say " I am just doing as my father told me." Is it your fathers fault. No it was your greed and selfishness you are just using his name truly in vain. We'll thats what I think of all these people killing themselves or robbing old ladies...in Gods name.
          as for 2) You need to look at the bigger picture and nobody can explain it well enough in these responses to change your mind You even said you dont even want your mind changed..You will always find a contradiction or one sentence you can pick at. If you want to see proof you have to look for it in the people not on the 11:00 news or even here..but maybe at your local soup kitchen, in the closest hospital, talk to a group of elderly nuns sewing hats for kids...look up missionaaries in Haiti or Calcuta...even at a nearby prison. I think you might see be the physical evidence you are looking for.. Evidence you will feel as well as see.
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      Orlando Hawkins 20+

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      Mar 23 2012: What would consitute as a true atheist because from my understanding and experience, no atheist would ever deem themselves to be a "true" atheist.
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        James Howells

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        Mar 23 2012: That's a tough one. Its a hard concept to imagine. I can easily imagine an agnostic person or a person who has no use for a supreme being or doesn't really care or even a person who rejects god..but a true atheist is tough... an atheist to me reminds me of a machine. A person who feels no inspiration, motivation, or influence in their lives except those derived from internal and external stimuli...chemical reactions. They don't feel the existence of a soul within them. They would react basically on chemical changes in their body and or conditioned responses. They don't know how they got here but they do know nothing made them. I think they would explain love as extreme chemical reaction or a strong urge to preserve their species.
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          Mireille Chéry

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          Mar 24 2012: I just love that one James H.! The reply to Orlando question about "a true atheist".

          All of your comments or powerful and intelligent, thanks for all your input, really appreciate reading all of them. Great job!! Refreshing
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          Orlando Hawkins 20+

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          Mar 25 2012: Thanks James for your response.

          But its very, very misinformed which is scary given the fact that Mireille agreeed with you, which shows how impressionable the mind really is.. nonetheless I respect the fact that you answered and please don't take my post as a sign of disrespect.Ok first off there is no such thing as a true atheist. Such a person does not exist and will not exist. Secondly atheism is not a philosophy, worldview, belief system, doctrine or anything. Atheism simply is the belief or notion that one can get by without some higher diety. Secondly its the repudiation and questioning of bad ideas (all of them). I for one do not ever identify myself as an athiest. I do not believe in god but I'm not athiest. Third, there is nothing you can tell about an indivdiual who is an athiest. You can't tell anything about my lifestyle, my politics or even my religoius beliefs (yes some atheist are religous and there are many religions that do not require a belief in God or Gods). It really is a word without content. Fourth to state that a "true atheist" is a person who feels no inspiration, motivation or influences in their lives and have a "chemical problem" is one of the worst descriptions I have ever heard and its quite offensives for the following reasons:

          (1) it asserts that God is the source of inspiration, motivation which is quite incorrect. The brain and its physiology of ones is the souce of this

          (2) It asserts that such a person is not a human being or at least have a problem with them. This is quite incorrect. For one there are many others sources for motivation (for example my son is the inspiration and motivation behind my success) not God and the fact that I can do this without the aid of God in my opinion only validates that God is not the source.

          (3) All atheist value the life that we have being that this is the only life we can be certain of living.

          Lastly, atheist are one of the most morally sound people I have ever met.
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        James Howells

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        Mar 25 2012: Ok...Your reply is why its near impossible to discuss this point in person and totally impossible to discuss this issue in a forum. You read my response...once I would presume. Let it stand alone...misread some of it and then commented...and asked me not to be offended. For one I am in no way offended even when you seemed to misread that I said Atheists have a "chemical problem" which I never stated...and needlessly commented on the impressionability of Merille's mind as someone who agrees with BOTH of us on the improbability of a true atheist.

        I was looking at an atheist as one who does not believe in deities of any kind. I used the word "True Atheist" meaning one who Truly believes this and isn't just arguing in order to get a rise out of fundamentalists or because they like to point out the contradictions in organized religion. One who has looked at the evidence of both sides and thought about it and their own lives and isn't willing to say there is some kind of God or " I honestly don't know." but one who believes they do know there is no God one who Truly believes they came from nothing.
        So I apologize if I was going by the only definition I had ever heard of an atheist. To me your definition sounds more agnostic.
        Read the beginning of my comment I state how I can't even imagine someone being a "True Atheist" A point I think you miss that we are both agreeing on...

        On another point, out of true curiosity could you name some of those religions that don't believe in deity?

        • Johan Pärjamäe

          • +1
          Mar 25 2012: So, as I am one who does not believes in deities of any kind, would you say that I am your definition of a 'true' atheist. I truly believe it to be so and I am not just saying it to get a rise out of you. I have never seen anything to convince me otherwise and I wholeheartedly believe there to be no deities whatsoever.

          Now, I am a part of the UNICEF team in my university. I volunteer to accompany elderly people who have no longer any friends nor family to talk to. I am an academically successful student headed for a cum laude degree with an inquisitive mind regarding the endless beauty of our world. I speak four languages because I believe a fuller linguistic comprehension allows me to connect with people more, both in understanding others and in explaining my own views to the best of my abilities. I exercise regularly and refrain from harming substances to keep myself in great shape to allow me to experience the world any which way I want. I love my family, my friends, my passions and the world. Yet here I stand, telling you that I believe there is no god. Once I leave this amazing, wondrous planet full of so many mysteries yet to be solved, so many places to visit, so many people to meet and experiences to be had, I will not move on to an afterlife. I will die and that will be the final period to my story.

          Now please, please tell me that I remind you of a machine, how I am but a collection of chemical reactions and responses to external stimuli. Judging by the tone of your definition, you would also believe me to be inferior to you, if not personally then at least by quality of life. I'm a true atheist, I don't believe in the spiritual soul and I am certain that my life is as swell as yours. What does that say about this whole argument?
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          Orlando Hawkins 20+

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          Mar 26 2012: Hi James, I could have misunderstood your comment, after all you are the only one who knows what your really thinking and trying to say.

          You are correct that I did take your chemical stimuli description out of context so I do owe you an apology and I state that I now understand what you were implying in that regard but I do not see how that is a bad thing when everyone operates like that

          I know that you were not directing it towards me (remember I do not identify myself as an atheist) but your response is defiantly what many people envision myself, Johan and other non-believers to be like. You may not hold this perception but I can tell you that many believers do and that is what I was addressing. Don't think I think your a bad person and I know your intelligent, I was just pointing out how your analysis of what constitutes a true atheist, is exactly, from my experience and from others that I have talked to, what many believers think about us non-believers. I honestly do not know your personal beliefs so I was not attacking you. I just had to clear the air.

          For one I TRULY BELIEVE that there is no God or Gods that any human being on this planet worships. I mean how could anyone possible know the true personality of GOD and write a book about it? You must note that this is just a belief, a thought from my mind. Now am I CERTAIN that there is no God? I do not think any body would ever claim that but belief and certainty are two separate things and many people on here are Certain that God exist and are too afraid to admit their doubt.

          I have looked at the evidence from both sides and I still am but nothing has convinced me that I need to just all of a sudden take a leap of faith or that some supreme being exist.

          My definition is nothing close to agnosticism. I have chosen a side, I just decided to not attach a label to my worldview and have taken the intellectually honest route, which is something I have yet to see anyone else do
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        James Howells

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        Mar 26 2012: JOHAN....Nope you dont remind me of a machine at all...And if you do all those truly awesome things with no hint that you are connected to those around you in any other way than the fact that you all randomly evolved on the same planet that itself randomly banged into existance. Then you must be by your own beliefs...not mine. Doing what you do because thats how you randomly evolved. Why do things evolve? (very simplistically) because they mutate in such away that helps them to adapt and there species change in such away to help them florish and reproduce... all by chance acording to your beliefs. You cant really get upset or offended by my comment... I explained how I thought a true atheist must explain their own actions or exhistance... I dont actually believe those things about you personally..( that you are a machine and run on conditioned responses)...I couldn't because I know you are an atheist and I personally believe you are wrong.You say you love your family...that is awesome...Where did that love come from?...Isnt it just a highly evolved way to protect you family unit therefore ensuring your species survivies? Arent you just feeling bonds that all mammals feel to ensure the young stay close to their parents so they can be protected and learn...I dont think thats why you love them... But dont you?

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