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This Question is for the people that believe in god. (Atheist views also please)
Did you ever thought of this, and if so, please explain to me how does this make sense to you,
Because it doesn't to me.
BTW I'm atheist, but I'm asking this question from a christian point of view.
(I don't claim to no everything, just a truth seeker)
OK, Here we go:
God created you,(Remember you didn't ask to be here,) and then gave you an ultimatum, Worship me and go to Heaven, or You'll burn for eternity in my hell fire.
But...What if i don't want either, why can't i create a third option?
Really, is there any free will in this or is this just free choice?
Besides were ever i was before you created me, am sure i was perfectly fine.
then you decide to bring me here and trap me in your Crappy Options (Heaven or Hell).
Ofcourse if am a believer i wouldn't want to burn in hell, so i'll pick the other option which is heaven.
but am only picking heaven because hell sucks a bit more.
So basically it's worship me or you'll pay. and if i decide not to, Hell awaits me. So, if god really is love why is he so upset and is going to burn me indefinitely, because i think he's a myth that man created to find solace in?
i mean, what type of god leaves no evidence at all, and gets angry because i don't acknowledge him? Let's face it, you can tell me god did it, god created it, god this, god that..but it's all faith based. No matter how much you tell me, you have no proof. So as far as am concerned, if i tell you a pink unicorn in blue jeans created all of this, you can't disprove that.
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Tim blackburn 30+
but as you said, its all in faith.
the twins was also himself.
Orlando Hawkins 20+
so in other words, there is no free-will
Tim blackburn 30+
Orlando Hawkins 20+
It make much more sense to assume how free-will would exist until after the fall but with this approach you would have to explain how exactly did Adam and Eve make the choice of eating the "forbidden fruit" from the tree of knowledge if before the fall everything was part of God's plan. With this approach we would also have to explain how God lost control of not only his creation but pretty much everything else.
So from what you say, God was dead until the dead sea scrolls were rediscovered? I'm not sure if I follow for the simple fact that the Dead Sea Scrolls have not inspired more faith into everyone....also from those who have read it, they state there is really nothing special about them....if this is indeed the case, this is a sad way for god to emerge back into existence wouldn't you think?
Shaheem Carter
Shaheem Carter
Orlando Hawkins 20+
I agree with you that such thoughts are insane but I understand, the usefulness of having such beliefs (not that I agree with them). One reason why people like to believe such things is because as humans we enjoy life so much that we cannot imagine ourselves as being non-existent. Another reason is because we incapable of embracing nihilism. Nihilism is terrifying to us.
Nietzsche once stated that "humans can live with suffering, what they CANNOT live with is MEANINGLESS suffering--suffering for no reason at all"
As an individual, I see the issue of free-will and determinism as paradoxical by nature. I see the entire make up of the universe as one big paradox.
You are correct about your notion of determinism. All the evidence in the natural world points to the world being deterministic but in spite of this, we humans are capable of still being free.
If you take the approach of consciousness and physics, you come to realize that there is something that transcends the determinism of the natural world. Something that does not abide by the laws of nature and what this something is, is known as sub-atomic particles (as well as some atoms and protons depending on their nature).
Also if you meditate, you can learn to change your mind. To have control of the flow of your thoughts and break the chains of classical conditioning but none of this comes easy and may take a life time.
In other words, we are much freer than we think we are and this is something that I do think God himself understands
Mireille Chéry
You can say you don't agree, or whatsoever, I don't beleive to call names something that you don't understand. It's like going to China and you think they are all crazy because you don't speak Chinese.
Lets stay respectful for the people that believe in God, even if you don't and for the sake of TED philosophy.
Cheers!
Verble Gherulous 20+
You have stated that you do not believe in free will because all choices are made based on past experiences, which are influenced by environment; however, you would get headaches if this lack of free will had been imposed by some god.
What confuses me is that you would prefer to have a lack of free will, as long as it was imposed by a world that didn't care about you at all, or by just a meaningless collection of random acts, rather than an actual being who said, "hey, guess what? i love you!".
Pardon my snarkiness there, but regardless, we do have free will. We can make whatever chce we want, create whatever private world we want. Although I will agree with you that the decisions we make with are free will are indeed shaped by past experiences. We make decisions based on what we know, and what we have seen influences the choices that we make, but in the end, the choices are ours, and ours alone.
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Orlando Hawkins 20+
but I think your forgetting something..
sorry to be analytical but your statement is implying that these teenagers already know that God exist but are too stubborn to want accept this fact...
The truth of the matter is, is that I'm not one of these stubborn teenagers because as far as I know God has yet to reveal himself to the world (or myself) and until that day comes then I'll have to continue to live my life as though this is the only life I have.
Shaheem Carter
Verble Gherulous 20+
Imagine it like this: think of the last movie you saw. You know what happened to the characters in the middle of the middle, but the characters do not. To them, what is happening to them is all their is, and they've got no clue what will happen to them. You do.
That is a VERY simple analogy, I know, but hopefully itillustrates how One can know without imposing their will.
But I will leave with a question: since you don't believe in free will anyway, why do you even care whether this lack of free wil is from some big meanie or a passionless, uncaring, unsentient universe?
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Verble Gherulous 20+
Mireille Chéry
I just love Him big time in Jesus name!!!
Peace to all...I have to pray specially for Shaheem and Orlando!
Cheers
Orlando Hawkins 20+
Great post by the way
I'm going to kindly ignore the first four statements that you have made being that I agree with you.
but you lost me when you mentioned "knowing or believing that someone exists does not equal love of that entity or willing submission to it. If just knowing the existence of something equaled obedience and submission, the jails would be empty".
I would have to respectfully disagree with you and here is why:
Nowhere in the Ten Commandments does it state that you do not have to submit to the injunctions that God has laid down for you. These are the very reasons as to why they are known as commandments. The very word Islam means "voluntary submission".
So if I am going to submit my life to a principle or ruler I would love to know not only why but who they are. We would have this process of thinking when it comes to other human beings but when it comes to God, we cannot be at the very least skeptical? It's flabbergasting to actually think about.
I understand the whole notion of a personal relationship to with the creator and I personally have nothing against this but if I may allow me to ask you this:
you whole notion of the creator at least came from some religion that adheres to deities. Now it is safe to say that your personal relationship with this creator is different than that of, let's say Mireille.
My question to you is that how do you know you are worshiping the same creator? For all you know you could be in dialogue with Zeus. If you base your life around this one creator and establish your values off of this personal relationship, how exactly does your life correspond to what it says in the text?
I apologize if I am coming off as strident but too many bad things has happened throughout the vicissitudes of human history off the basis of faith...This is the only problem that I have with believers because they tend to give a justification for such occurrences.