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Shaheem Carter

https://twitter.com/#!/shaheemhbcarter

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This Question is for the people that believe in god. (Atheist views also please)

Did you ever thought of this, and if so, please explain to me how does this make sense to you,
Because it doesn't to me.

BTW I'm atheist, but I'm asking this question from a christian point of view.
(I don't claim to no everything, just a truth seeker)

OK, Here we go:

God created you,(Remember you didn't ask to be here,) and then gave you an ultimatum, Worship me and go to Heaven, or You'll burn for eternity in my hell fire.

But...What if i don't want either, why can't i create a third option?
Really, is there any free will in this or is this just free choice?
Besides were ever i was before you created me, am sure i was perfectly fine.
then you decide to bring me here and trap me in your Crappy Options (Heaven or Hell).

Ofcourse if am a believer i wouldn't want to burn in hell, so i'll pick the other option which is heaven.
but am only picking heaven because hell sucks a bit more.

So basically it's worship me or you'll pay. and if i decide not to, Hell awaits me. So, if god really is love why is he so upset and is going to burn me indefinitely, because i think he's a myth that man created to find solace in?
i mean, what type of god leaves no evidence at all, and gets angry because i don't acknowledge him? Let's face it, you can tell me god did it, god created it, god this, god that..but it's all faith based. No matter how much you tell me, you have no proof. So as far as am concerned, if i tell you a pink unicorn in blue jeans created all of this, you can't disprove that.

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    Mar 19 2012: maybe the non being god decided to create, and that instant hatched an egg with twins who, in the selfish act of creating istelf (becuase of free will) made one twin angry and pulled an opposite direction, between the two creating (in hologram form) the universe. the angry twin was the matter of the universe, as it is streaked with the irrational. the good twin was novelty and light in one. god did not see this happening but the seconed it did he decided to undue it from his point (the end of time, but he is in all time, anyways) to in negentropy to reverse the process from the inside. our expressin of information to this point has created a new module for the first twin to further the unwinding process. it is computer like, and works in binary. it facilitates the push-pull relation ship with us in this dimention and it in the 5th. god is us, god is this information feeding entitny, god is outside time and the unduing of time(entropy). god is infininiy in every aspect. suffiring is complicated but the death of himself in a.d40 was an act on himself becuase of freewill in the first place. see also, the breakdown of the bimecurial mind.or, not. all of this is prob untrue.
    but as you said, its all in faith.
    the twins was also himself.
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      Mar 19 2012: According to Calvin and other Supra-Lapsarians, Free-Will ceased to exist right after the fall of the Garden of Eden so Jesus (or as you state God's) death at A.D. 40 was all part of providence (God's Divine Plan)...
      so in other words, there is no free-will
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        Mar 19 2012: i would say the opposite, and that free will did not exist untill the fall. with the fall was occulsion in us and the god head, as we may forget and thus choose to experience agape, the ultimate aoplogy for creating in the first place. god remembered himself through christ and his death stoped time in order to work undetected till the 1940's with the nag hammadi scrolls descovered, the atom bomb, and the finding of dna, and lsd.
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          Mar 20 2012: Before I respond I would like to correct what I said earlier. I meant to imply that Calvin, along with other Supra-Laparians believed that the fall of the Garden of Eden was part of the providence. The reason for this is because if the fall was not part of God's plan, God would have a lot of questions to answer about his fallible creation. there is more to this but I at the moment do not feel like explaining it (my bad).

          It make much more sense to assume how free-will would exist until after the fall but with this approach you would have to explain how exactly did Adam and Eve make the choice of eating the "forbidden fruit" from the tree of knowledge if before the fall everything was part of God's plan. With this approach we would also have to explain how God lost control of not only his creation but pretty much everything else.

          So from what you say, God was dead until the dead sea scrolls were rediscovered? I'm not sure if I follow for the simple fact that the Dead Sea Scrolls have not inspired more faith into everyone....also from those who have read it, they state there is really nothing special about them....if this is indeed the case, this is a sad way for god to emerge back into existence wouldn't you think?
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          Mar 20 2012: Keep in mind Orlando, How can an all knowing god that see's everything before it happens and it's impossible for him to be wrong, so what he sees, has and must come to fruition. which means as long as he has these qualities, there can never ever be free will. if the guy is real, he fated everything and tomorrow already exist.
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        Mar 20 2012: So i'll assume your a believer in god, please correct me if my assumption is wrong. But are you happy knowing you have no free will as a believer in god? this means before your birth he already knew if you were going to hell or heaven. it's madness actually. your fate has already been decided. it's hard to believe someone can find solace in this belief. As an atheist i don't believe in free will, i believe all choices are influenced by environment,my past,the way i was brought up, society etc i believe no choice that is influence by something is free. but the thought that a some god created me and i have no free will would give me headaches. plus it makes god look even more insane than he already is
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          Mar 20 2012: Oh no my good friend, I am far from being a believer in God (although I understand where you get that impression). My views are just as extravagant as yours but the only difference is that I do not identify myself as an atheist. I see no use for the term philosophically and my disbelief in god does not get me through the day. . Atheism to me is not a doctrine, belief system, philosophy or worldview. It simply is the disbelief in a God(s) and the questioning of bad ideas.

          I agree with you that such thoughts are insane but I understand, the usefulness of having such beliefs (not that I agree with them). One reason why people like to believe such things is because as humans we enjoy life so much that we cannot imagine ourselves as being non-existent. Another reason is because we incapable of embracing nihilism. Nihilism is terrifying to us.

          Nietzsche once stated that "humans can live with suffering, what they CANNOT live with is MEANINGLESS suffering--suffering for no reason at all"

          As an individual, I see the issue of free-will and determinism as paradoxical by nature. I see the entire make up of the universe as one big paradox.

          You are correct about your notion of determinism. All the evidence in the natural world points to the world being deterministic but in spite of this, we humans are capable of still being free.

          If you take the approach of consciousness and physics, you come to realize that there is something that transcends the determinism of the natural world. Something that does not abide by the laws of nature and what this something is, is known as sub-atomic particles (as well as some atoms and protons depending on their nature).

          Also if you meditate, you can learn to change your mind. To have control of the flow of your thoughts and break the chains of classical conditioning but none of this comes easy and may take a life time.

          In other words, we are much freer than we think we are and this is something that I do think God himself understands
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          Mar 20 2012: I don't know Shaheem about calling God crazy, mad etc. Hitler, rapist, predators etc are madly crazy!!

          You can say you don't agree, or whatsoever, I don't beleive to call names something that you don't understand. It's like going to China and you think they are all crazy because you don't speak Chinese.

          Lets stay respectful for the people that believe in God, even if you don't and for the sake of TED philosophy.

          Cheers!
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          Mar 20 2012: Shaheem, please forgive me but I don't understand this post. Are hou saying that you don't believe in the possibility of free will, whether we were created by God or not?

          You have stated that you do not believe in free will because all choices are made based on past experiences, which are influenced by environment; however, you would get headaches if this lack of free will had been imposed by some god.

          What confuses me is that you would prefer to have a lack of free will, as long as it was imposed by a world that didn't care about you at all, or by just a meaningless collection of random acts, rather than an actual being who said, "hey, guess what? i love you!".

          Pardon my snarkiness there, but regardless, we do have free will. We can make whatever chce we want, create whatever private world we want. Although I will agree with you that the decisions we make with are free will are indeed shaped by past experiences. We make decisions based on what we know, and what we have seen influences the choices that we make, but in the end, the choices are ours, and ours alone.
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          Mar 20 2012: hahaha nice and funny quote

          but I think your forgetting something..

          sorry to be analytical but your statement is implying that these teenagers already know that God exist but are too stubborn to want accept this fact...

          The truth of the matter is, is that I'm not one of these stubborn teenagers because as far as I know God has yet to reveal himself to the world (or myself) and until that day comes then I'll have to continue to live my life as though this is the only life I have.
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          Mar 20 2012: @Verble Gherulous Understand what am saying, the fact that god is all knowing and it's impossible for him to be wrong, means he sees everything before it happens, and what he sees has to happen, or he's not all knowing, and since he is the creator, it means he predetermined it. Good and Bad!! you can say, you have free will all you want, but as long as your god no's everything, it erases your free will. which means even your thoughts are predetermined. So if i was a believer that alone would hurt my head. As an atheist i still don't believe in free will, but even thou i don't have free will, my life isn't predetermined by some deity.
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          Mar 22 2012: @Shaheem. When we say that God is all knowing and has known us before He created the Universe and knows everything that we are going to do and forgave us of our sins before we were even born, because He knew that we would choose Him, we are not saying that God is controlling us. We are in linear time, yesterday today tomorrow, it is behind us and in front of us. God exists outside of time. He is the IS. Just because All of eternity exists for Him in the same moment does not mean that he has predetermined you to write the next post you are going to write.

          Imagine it like this: think of the last movie you saw. You know what happened to the characters in the middle of the middle, but the characters do not. To them, what is happening to them is all their is, and they've got no clue what will happen to them. You do.

          That is a VERY simple analogy, I know, but hopefully itillustrates how One can know without imposing their will.


          But I will leave with a question: since you don't believe in free will anyway, why do you even care whether this lack of free wil is from some big meanie or a passionless, uncaring, unsentient universe?
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          Mar 20 2012: Mary, again and again you say with ease what I just blather on about. Thank you for expressing such concepts with care, understanding, and clarity.
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          Mar 20 2012: Well said Mary M.!! It's all about your personal relationship with the Creator...This is what I love about God, if you search Him, you'll find Him....

          I just love Him big time in Jesus name!!!

          Peace to all...I have to pray specially for Shaheem and Orlando!

          Cheers
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          Mar 21 2012: Hi Mary,

          Great post by the way

          I'm going to kindly ignore the first four statements that you have made being that I agree with you.

          but you lost me when you mentioned "knowing or believing that someone exists does not equal love of that entity or willing submission to it. If just knowing the existence of something equaled obedience and submission, the jails would be empty".

          I would have to respectfully disagree with you and here is why:

          Nowhere in the Ten Commandments does it state that you do not have to submit to the injunctions that God has laid down for you. These are the very reasons as to why they are known as commandments. The very word Islam means "voluntary submission".

          So if I am going to submit my life to a principle or ruler I would love to know not only why but who they are. We would have this process of thinking when it comes to other human beings but when it comes to God, we cannot be at the very least skeptical? It's flabbergasting to actually think about.

          I understand the whole notion of a personal relationship to with the creator and I personally have nothing against this but if I may allow me to ask you this:

          you whole notion of the creator at least came from some religion that adheres to deities. Now it is safe to say that your personal relationship with this creator is different than that of, let's say Mireille.

          My question to you is that how do you know you are worshiping the same creator? For all you know you could be in dialogue with Zeus. If you base your life around this one creator and establish your values off of this personal relationship, how exactly does your life correspond to what it says in the text?

          I apologize if I am coming off as strident but too many bad things has happened throughout the vicissitudes of human history off the basis of faith...This is the only problem that I have with believers because they tend to give a justification for such occurrences.

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